Don't talk to divorce, if she brings it up be pleasant and politely say "let's leave the divorce talk to our lawyers, I will happily talk marriage.

Thanks catwhit. I will be heading back, definitely, I have informed my employer of my situation and that I will not be renewing. I realize that by staying here, even after d-day was a huge mistake and I need to be home. Its not that I consciously chose to put my marriage on the back burner, I thought it the right thing to do at the time - give my W space.

Wrong Choice. I suppose life is all about choices. We all make good ones and bad ones. I suppose its not the mistakes that should be focused on but rather how we deal with it and pick up the pieces.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, its good to know its not too late.

Good point. She's always saying that *&^% word and it drives me crazy every time I hear it. Like a knife through the heart and she uses it so easily.

I don't believe you have killed you chances. We have had people recover after being in Plan B [a dark separation] after some time. You do have a chance, so don't give up.

L&F:

I am so relieved to hear you are heading back. It is NOT hopeless. Your mistake of staying in China these past 6 months was unintentional, so do not wallow in it.

And in following your thread, I see that you are using your INTELLIGENCE to guide you, not your emotions. This is so very important. Keep this up, especially when you get home. Easy to say, of course, harder to do!

Also remember that you are not dealing with your wife as you knew her. On the forum, active waywards are described as being inhabited by aliens. It is a good perspective to hold. She is in there somewhere, but for now you cannot believe anything she says, and she will be completely illogical and irrational. This continues until she is out of the fog of addiction, usually a while after the affair ends. And sadly, she will deliberately lie and try to hurt you.

But again, it is not hopeless. Follow the MB plan to the letter, and keep posting here for advice from the vets, and to vent. It is an invaluable resource.

Be wary, also, of advice from well meaning friends and family. Usually, they don't have positive recovery experience, unlike the veterans here who have followed the MB plan.

You are doing great. Keep on the path.

Very wise words!

Yes I told myself that many times as I was gone from my family 5 months because of work. HUGE MISTAKE.

We've all made mistakes in this process. You can never know - no matter how bad a situation - which ones will turn around and which ones won't. That's why the MB plan is so great: you save yourself in the process of attempting to save your marriage - and following it guarantees recovery - personal, marital, or both!

It is my opinion that you should avoid any relationship talk at this point - divorce or marriage. Your focus should be on Plan A right now, which is making yourself as appealing as possible. You have to regain your wife's respect in order for her to see you as partner material again. Right now, bringing up the marriage will not do that because she is addicted to someone else. It will just make her defensive.

Have you read up on Plan A? Is that what you're doing here?

Remember, Plan A is NOT "I miss you so much...I will do anything to get you back!" It's NOT plan Doormat. It's about pulling out all the stops to show what a great man you are!

Read up on the carrot and stick. That would be my advice.

Many times, wayward spouses have lost respect for their BSs and the mistakes made before finding MB have piled onto that. Those mistakes have said to the WS, "I don't respect myself - so why should you?" Plan A is about taking back that self respect and finding ways to show it to the WS. For me, a large part of that was to stop talking about the relationship. I had to send the signal that I was going to be OK, no matter what. When the time was right (after exposure) I offered up my willingness to recover - if and only if the A was over and certain conditions were met.

Lost,

I don't believe its too late. Mose affairs have a shelf life of 2 years or less according to Dr. Harley. In my case, I was convinced that my wife was going to marry her affair partner. That was the plan. We divorced and shortly after, she wanted to come back. Seemed like a miracle to me. Point is, you never know what will happen, and when things seem completely hopeless, you may find out that your plan was working all along, just in the silence of your wayward spouse's mind. If the fog lifts from your WW, your efforts may come to light.

Do your best in plan A and plan b (if it comes to this). There are no guarantees, but the most important thing you do is apply the marriage builders principles faithfully, because they are your best shot at saving your marriage and staying grounded in behaviors that foster a healthy, loving marriage.

You are in a marathon. Make sure every step points you towards the finish line of your choice. You can't control her, but you can control you. You can make yourself the best man for her once things fall apart with her affair. If she fails to see the light, then at least you have made yourself a better person, and you will be the best man for someone else in the future. Good luck.

Wrong Choice. I suppose life is all about choices. We all make good ones and bad ones.

And WSs looking for absolution (even internally) will select ANY situation and make it the "reason" they could/should/did bang boots with their AP.

If you were home, she'd have said you were "smothering" or "controlling" her. Had you turned down the opportunity, you would have been "insufficiently devoted" to your family's financial health. If you are tall, you are too "dominating"; if short, you "lack stature".

Yadda, yadda, blah, blah

"absolution" that's the freakin word I was looking for.

You know she said to me I was saying all the right things, all the things that sounded like sense. But in a conversation of all the "right things" she would hold and drill down with the one wrong or negative comment and use it to swing the conversation. One little mishap and the conversation would swing.

It is utterly amazing how WW's view the world. Block out everything they do not want to hear, not talk to people that will explain the realism of their situation and only let the minute amount of info they want to hear in and run with that............for eons.

I am numb to it now.I finally realise that its completely futile to try get through to them, to reason, to show I love her. I asked her why does she think I am trying so hard to save this marriage, her answer was because I couldn't be bothered to end it myslef.

Why am I still surprised at these comments.

I realize I need to start plan A. I have been doing some but nothing in a strategical way. Even if I am a million miles away there must be a few things I can do. I have been avoiding talking to her on the phone or text. We talk once a week but that's just because I want to talk to the kids. We have a brief conversation but its business like and formal.

I don't want to appear needy and desperate. In fact I have even been quite distant myself. No questions about what she has been doing, one word answers etc. I have been doing DBing techniques which is all about pulling away, don't show love, walk in the other direction and wait for them to come to you. I have stopped that now and think its better to show I love her?

How does one do that being far away and not appearing needy. I want to show her I'm getting on with my life as well.

Flowers and gifts may be too much, she is not ready for that yet. It needs to be subtle as she is still heavily in the A and is foggier than pea soup.

L&F, it may seem hopeless and futile to you, but you need to be her lighthouse.
Be the lighthouse

Yes, show her you love her. Show her that you are fighting for her. Show her that you give a damn. Not doing so will validate how she is feeling right now.

If she enjoyed getting flowers from you before then do that NOW. Do anything and everything that shows her care.

Thanks RQ. She loved flowers when I sent them, but that was very seldom (which is part of the problem I am here). I just think flowers and gifts are not for someone who has betrayed their H and is lying to them constantly and is still in an affair.

Sends the wrong message no? Doormat springs to mind.

No, you are in Plan A. This is what you should be doing. This is the "carrot" of plan A. Showing her what a great husband you can be, what she would be giving up. Being a doormat would be allowing her to walk out that door knowing she is going to meet her AP.

The distance is a problem so you have to do what you can.

Did you read "The Carrot and stick of Plan A"? I cant remember if anyone linked it here for you.

Carrot and stick of Plan A

You also might want to take a read of TranquilDark's thread. He got and followed some really great plan A advice

Edit: Now I'm not sure if It was TranquilDark, but there are many BH's threads here that you can read and get ideas.

thanks RQ, reading it now.

Sometimes you approach wisdom, Grasshopper:

She loved flowers when I sent them, but that was very seldom (which is part of the problem I am here).

But sometimes you drift away:

I just think flowers and gifts are not for someone who has betrayed their H and is lying to them constantly and is still in an affair. Sends the wrong message no? Doormat springs to mind.

Had you faithfully (obsessively?) sent flowers, written love-notes, and called every day, friend, it's very likely you and I would never have met on this site!

Yeah, she's foggy, and yes, she will enrage you with some of her historical re-writes and delusions! So? The alternative to dealing with them, and still being her EN-satisfaction machine is an express ticket to Plan D.

BTW: EN satisfaction right now is a HUGE advantage, because when you expose, for a period of time that door will be closed!

cant find TranquilDarks thread, any chance some one can link it please, or any other great plan a advise?