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Just finished your wife's thread, and, wow, what a pile of dung!


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
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Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky
She arrived home just after 11:30, looking really good. I was sitting on the couch watching TV with the kids; she sat next to me on the arm of the couch, gave me a kiss and put her arm around me.



In your wife's thread, she wrote that she changed clothes prior to her dinner date, but said she did not change back into her original outfit before she came home. Did you notice that she was wearing different clothes when she came home? She offered no explanation for going to OM's hotel room before or after dinner, and I'm wondering if she actually changed clothes in his hotel room.

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LftS, Does it not resonate with you that all here, who are experienced in the ways and ploys of wayward spouses, are advising you of the necessity of having her take a polygraph test?

Look, you know she has already lied to you several times (meeting vs no meeting, who she was visiting) for years. What factor could possibly be swaying you toward believing that while she was lying before, now she's telling the truth?

There's a logical tool called "Occam's Razor" which states that given two (or more) possible explanations, the one with the fewest (or smallest) assumptions is likely the truth.

So, given the two stories, and translating her unsupported words to assumptions on your part here's what we have. The assumptions are in red.

Story 1
WW left for the trip. She told you she might overnight, depending on the weather. She changed in a restroom someplace, and drove around for an hour before going up to POSOM's room. The chatted for a while, and went to dinner. She was nervous. They went back to his hotel room. They never had sex or inappropriate contact. She came home.

Story 2
WW left for the trip. She told you she might overnight, depending on the weather. She and POSOM had sex, but not good enough for her to overnight. She came home.

Dude, having inferred from your writings your depth of religious conviction, could it be that you are willfully eliminating the opportunity to truly know what happened because you are either:
- using your "good" marriage as a buttress supporting the edifice that is your faith?
- unsure that you could generate forgiveness for her transgressions, and prefer not to face life without her, or, anyway, life without the quality marriage you thought you had?

As far as the "unreliability" of polygraphs, the so called "single focus" exercises, in which the same basic question is placed in several forms, drive the false reading cases to very, very low numbers. If she fails (and you still believe wrongly) she should undergo another session, with a different tester.

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Originally Posted By: JessicaClaire
Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky
She arrived home just after 11:30, looking really good. I was sitting on the couch watching TV with the kids; she sat next to me on the arm of the couch, gave me a kiss and put her arm around me.



In your wife's thread, she wrote that she changed clothes prior to her dinner date, but said she did not change back into her original outfit before she came home. Did you notice that she was wearing different clothes when she came home? She offered no explanation for going to OM's hotel room before or after dinner, and I'm wondering if she actually changed clothes in his hotel room.
She was supposed to be meeting girlfriends at the day spa. So the change didn't seem unreasonable. Also I know she did not want the OM to see her without being well prepared and attractive.

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
LftS, Does it not resonate with you that all here, who are experienced in the ways and ploys of wayward spouses, are advising you of the necessity of having her take a polygraph test?

Look, you know she has already lied to you several times (meeting vs no meeting, who she was visiting) for years. What factor could possibly be swaying you toward believing that while she was lying before, now she's telling the truth?

There's a logical tool called "Occam's Razor" which states that given two (or more) possible explanations, the one with the fewest (or smallest) assumptions is likely the truth.

So, given the two stories, and translating her unsupported words to assumptions on your part here's what we have. The assumptions are in red.

Story 1
WW left for the trip. She told you she might overnight, depending on the weather. She changed in a restroom someplace, and drove around for an hour before going up to POSOM's room. The chatted for a while, and went to dinner. She was nervous. They went back to his hotel room. They never had sex or inappropriate contact. She came home.

Story 2
WW left for the trip. She told you she might overnight, depending on the weather. She and POSOM had sex, but not good enough for her to overnight. She came home.

Dude, having inferred from your writings your depth of religious conviction, could it be that you are willfully eliminating the opportunity to truly know what happened because you are either:
- using your "good" marriage as a buttress supporting the edifice that is your faith?
- unsure that you could generate forgiveness for her transgressions, and prefer not to face life without her, or, anyway, life without the quality marriage you thought you had?

As far as the "unreliability" of polygraphs, the so called "single focus" exercises, in which the same basic question is placed in several forms, drive the false reading cases to very, very low numbers. If she fails (and you still believe wrongly) she should undergo another session, with a different tester.


It's been a rough couple of days. A poly may very well be in our very near future.

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Sir, we here will take no great joy in having been proved right, as the recent developments now demonstrate.

Two things, however, I want to impart to you:

- If you needed us before, you most certainly need us more now. Do not withdraw from this medium of support. Commit yourself, TO yourself, and FOR yourself, to post here every day, even just a nominal "how it's going" message.

- If your willingness to post is impacted or impeded by TF's ability to read your thoughts, hit "notify" at the bottom of this note. One of the Moderators might be able to help you.

I'm very sorry that you will have to go through this. I suggest you remember that His support will be there for you as you need it, if you only ask.

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I don't buy her story and neither should you. Polygraph her and if she refuses or tries to talk you out of it take some measures to protect yourself ie Plan B.

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Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky


It's been a rough couple of days. A poly may very well be in our very near future.



Re: Just looking for hope<<<----title of your thread


There is no hope until you have the complete truth. Without that your WW will continue to hold on to the fantasy of her secret world and you will continue to hold on to the unanswered questions and doubts. It will eat away at you until you despise her.

Schedule the poly and get it done with. If she can take one without any measure of deception, then you will have hope of recovering a strong marriage...with the MB recovery program.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

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If she takes a single-issue polygraph with a certified examiner, the results can be more than 99% accurate. I recommend defining "sexual contact" and then testing the following issue:

"Sexual contact" could be defined as "penetrating sex (oral, anal, vaginal) and/or romantic or sexual physical contact, foreplay, or kissing."

The single issue could be: "Excluding LatefortheSky and 1 kiss with OM, have you had any other 'sexual contact' since (insert wedding date)?"

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Late,

I know this is a very difficult time right now. I am so sorry. Trickle truth is also called the "death by a thousand cuts" and there are many here (me included) who have been at the receiving end of it.

There is hope though. If your wife choses to stop being a liar and becomes honest and open, your marriage has a good chance at recovery. There are many positives aspects about your marital history. You have been married a long time and have children. You have faith in a higher being and a spiritual life.

Sadly, I don't believe that you are at ground truth yet.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Late
I am a FWW so from that perspective I want to encourage you to take up your WW or perhaps FWW's offer of lie detector. Like you I have some doubts of its great accuracy, HOWEVER, they can in many circumstances at least indicate if there are lies being told. Not foolproof and if for court I wouldn't accept it, but YOU are the one who decides here.
Could she think she can trick you? of course she could but you have to start somewhere or just keep spinning the wheels. And Late.... HOPE is not a plan!!! The plan that works is the MB plan.
Have you ever thought that your wife may need a 'push' a 'lever' to get the courage to tell you the whole truth? Her offer of the lie detector may be her way of seeking that situation. I know I tried to twist and turn and avoid it until corned like a rat up a drain pipe as my loving hubby says.
Do it, use the MB plan and you CAN have a wonderful loving marriage.
Hope is a blessing Late, but by itself will not give you success. You AND your wife must commit to the MB plan, hard and hurtful though some of it will be, if you want the marriage you dream of.


Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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Originally Posted By: aussieswife
Late
I am a FWW so from that perspective I want to encourage you to take up your WW or perhaps FWW's offer of lie detector. Like you I have some doubts of its great accuracy, HOWEVER, they can in many circumstances at least indicate if there are lies being told. Not foolproof and if for court I wouldn't accept it, but YOU are the one who decides here.
Could she think she can trick you? of course she could but you have to start somewhere or just keep spinning the wheels. And Late.... HOPE is not a plan!!! The plan that works is the MB plan.
Have you ever thought that your wife may need a 'push' a 'lever' to get the courage to tell you the whole truth? Her offer of the lie detector may be her way of seeking that situation. I know I tried to twist and turn and avoid it until corned like a rat up a drain pipe as my loving hubby says.
Do it, use the MB plan and you CAN have a wonderful loving marriage.
Hope is a blessing Late, but by itself will not give you success. You AND your wife must commit to the MB plan, hard and hurtful though some of it will be, if you want the marriage you dream of.


Thanks AW. This stuff is just so bloody difficult. This past weekend was so hard, with old wounds which were just beginning to heal being torn open again. Not to mention new ones which cut right to the core of me. Im not even able to go to work today. I thought the last 18 months had me a little more battle hardened, but to my surprise, not so much. Well maybe a little.

I am grateful for the stimulus this board has given my FWW. Some withheld truth has come out and some personal insights have helped her get closer to getting busy with productive work. Every step though kills me and Im runnin out of steam.

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Trickle Truth will kill you ... you have to demand she give you 100% honesty TODAY ... it is death by a thousand cuts if you don't get the truth.

I think if she won't give you the full truth ... you should think about separating and going into Plan B until you get the truth.

Concensus is she had sex with that man in that hotel room ... she waited 17 years to be loved by that man ... she waited 17 years for him ... she was going to dump you for him ... she lied to you for all of your marriage.

I would demand the truth. She has 24 hours to do it. Your WW has a lot of work today ... she has been entrenched in fantasty and lies for decades. It will take her some time to understand how to live an honest life. She has to want to do this ... it just isn't honesty ... it has to be RADICAL HONESTY.

Get her polygraphed ASAP ... if she doesn't call and get it scheduled by 1700 COB today I would make her move out until she is ready to give you the full truth.

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Otherwise SIR ... you will be the only one destroyed in the end. You need to be healthy. YOu have lived with trickle truth for several years ... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It has to end today ... This is no way to live and it certainly is not the way to be married.

ETA: She is not even close to an FWW ... She is still wayward until you get the full truth. WW is who she is today.

Last edited by WalkinForward; 01/22/13 12:15 PM.
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I agree with WiF. You need to see progress and the polygraph scheduled and the whole truth will make you feel better about the woman you love. People forget how lying hurts more than the REAL story. Did you order SAA yet?

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Originally Posted By: TranquilDark
I agree with WiF. You need to see progress and the polygraph scheduled and the whole truth will make you feel better about the woman you love. People forget how lying hurts more than the REAL story. Did you order SAA yet?


Yes, we did get SAA a few weeks ago. After reading this board for a while I began to buy in to the MB program. There was something holding me back, something just isn't right. There was this gut feeling that the openness and honesty wasn't where it needed to be to even begin such an exercise, without making it a sham.

After she began posting here, things have been really shaken up. The past couple of days she seems different in our communication. She seems less guarded with every word. I think we are now onto something.

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Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky

I am grateful for the stimulus this board has given my FWW. Some withheld truth has come out and some personal insights have helped her get closer to getting busy with productive work.

You are grateful that "some" withheld truth has come out and she is "getting closer" to doing productive work? Do you really believe that is the best she can do?
Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky
There was something holding me back, something just isn't right. There was this gut feeling that the openness and honesty wasn't where it needed to be to even begin such an exercise, without making it a sham.

After she began posting here, things have been really shaken up. The past couple of days she seems different in our communication. She seems less guarded with every word. I think we are now onto something.


Are you going to insist on radical honesty, or are you going to settle for her "seeming" to be less guarded?

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Originally Posted By: JessicaClaire
Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky

I am grateful for the stimulus this board has given my FWW. Some withheld truth has come out and some personal insights have helped her get closer to getting busy with productive work.

You are grateful that "some" withheld truth has come out and she is "getting closer" to doing productive work? Do you really believe that is the best she can do?
Originally Posted By: LatefortheSky
There was something holding me back, something just isn't right. There was this gut feeling that the openness and honesty wasn't where it needed to be to even begin such an exercise, without making it a sham.

After she began posting here, things have been really shaken up. The past couple of days she seems different in our communication. She seems less guarded with every word. I think we are now onto something.


Are you going to insist on radical honesty, or are you going to settle for her "seeming" to be less guarded?


Radical honesty is what I have insisted on from the beginning. I knew MB or anything else for that matter will be useless without it as a foundation. Thats why last Friday, as hard as it was, I told her if she didn't start divorce filing that day I would on Monday.

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I don't think you can recover your marriage until she discloses everything, so you have nothing to lose--and everything to gain--by insisting on full disclosure. Are you considering Plan B?

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Are you considering Plan B?

I would THINK that with no active AP contact, and with two days having passed since the "I've-been-lying" d-day, LftS could invest a bit more time in Plan A before pulling the pin on the Plan B grenade.

Historically, the arrogant(?) WS who arrives here to attempt to enlist us in convincing the BS that his/her (justified) suspicions are unfounded has not quickly turned around. (Think TRT for the best worst example.)

Plan A is not highly effective quickly with fogged-up WSs. Someone likened it to throwing pebbles into a pond of unknown depth; given an infinite portion of time, and unlimited pebbles, eventually the results will break the surface.

LftS, you should perfect the "loving husband/stern taskmaster" attitude dichotomy which best supports the carrot/stick mechanics of Plan A, and keep tossing the damn pebbles.

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