I've read some. Any any particular you were thinking of?

FTF,

Ask her how she felt about OM at first?

Ask her how SHE would feel had you had an affair, does she have any empathy with you?

God Bless
Gamma

I just don"t know anymore.

Have you read up on Plan A? Carrot & Stick of Plan A

Men are advised to "Plan A" their wives for as long as the husband can handle it. Often they can pursue their wives and compete for much longer than a betrayed wife can hold out.

At this point, I'm sorry to say, your wife is not likely going to have empathy for the position she has placed you in.

With two young children, it makes sense for you to try and save your marriage. Without Extraordinary Precautions, your marriage is not protected. Your wife sounds like she has very sloppy boundaries around men.

What exactly of the EPs does she NOT want to do?

Meanwhile keep on scheduling your hours together and meeting each others needs and avoiding love busters.

Yes, I'm aware of Plan A.


She wants to be able to talk to and be friends with whoever she wants, male or not. She also believes she should be able to go out to bars and clubs with her girlfriends, but that one hasn't come up in a few months.

That story is that back in November, she went out with a group of girlfriends to see the new twilight movie. Afterwards, they all went to a club together. One of the women in the group is divorced and ended going home with some guy that night. They got home at 2 or 3 in the morning. I was out of town that weekend.

She agreed not to do it anymore, but only after arguing that she doesn't see anything wrong with it. So I guess that's why she feels like it's controlling. She just doesn't believe it's necessary, but isn't willing to get divorced over it, so she feels trapped I guess.

It's just is discouraging to me that she doesn't "get it". Ya know? And it keeps me from feeling safe in the marriage. i think her lack of buy in is what keeps me paranoid and checking up on her to be honest.

Holy crap! So I emailed the radio show and they are going to discuss my letter on the show today. And this morning I got a voice mail from Joyce asking me to be a caller on the show today or tomorrow!

I'm going to ask her if my wife can be on the call as well.

That's really great news, FFF. The Harleys are very respectful and courteous to callers. Dr. Harley uses logic to persuade reluctant spouses, and Joyce is so friendly and empathetic. You will get the best advice from them, especially since you will be a caller and do it all first hand.

I hope your wife will be willing to speak with them. Looking forward to hearing the show.

We got some good advice from Dr. Harley. He went in a completely different direction than I though he would. It was very interesting (to me at least).

What did he say?

Will you be on the show?

Yes we were on the show today.

I can't get into everything that was said righ now, but it basically boiled down to me avoiding love busters and my wife closing off her love bank to other men and opening it to me.

The big surprises to me were

1. She was looking for an affair when she got involved with OM.

2. She is a flirt and that brings out the best in other men which is what she is gets out of it.

3. I've closed off my access to he Love Bank by Love Busting, and nothing I do to meet her needs will have any effect as long as that is going on.


I'll have to listen to the show again. It's hard to remember. It seemed like it went by pretty fast and there is a lot to digest.

Well, we went out together the last two nights. The total hours for the week turned out to be 11. Still not as high as we need to get it, but double the time we got last week.

Dr Harley sent us two books to read. Surviving an Affair and Love Busters. I am currently reading SAA, and my wife is reading LB.

They came yesterday and I've already read half of SAA.

OK I've now completed reading through SAA. I've now given the book to my W to read as well.

I realize after reading the book and talking to Dr. Harley on the radio that one of my biggest problems is Love Busters. In particular, DJ, SD, and AO. I also realize that these are being fueled by strong feelings of resentment.

OK, so knowing that, I have been really biting my tounge this past week. I didn't realize how often I made DJs until I started making such an effort to avoid them. And they are not really big ones either. They seem so innocent and small but I see how they build up over time. They come from me often in the form of little critisms here and there. These kind are actually easy to avoid if I am thinking about it, and I don't have AO or SD very much in everyday life, so there isn't as much to correct there.

What I have a really hard time with though, is how to deal with being rejected when it comes to SF. I have so much resentment from the A because she was so willing to provide this need for him. Every time I am rejected, all I can hear in my mind is her saying to her friend about OM "But why doesn't he want it more? We used to do it every day!". And I also know that she went to the effort of looking up information on how to be better at it to please him. She even used me as practice a few times. Almost every day, she was disappointed if he didn't ask her for SF. All he had to do was call her on the phone and she would be right down to see him.

So I only put that out there to show where my resentment is coming from. Here is a situation that happened just yesterday, and it's very common. I have no real idea of how to handle this within the framework of what Dr. Harley is teaching.

Hope this isn't TMI, but I need to describe the situation honestly so I can get some good feedback.

Early in the day yesterday, I let my W know that I was desiring to be intimate with her. Several times during the day, I reminded her of this and asked what I could do to help he meet my need. How to help her get in the mood, how to make it a good experience for her, etc. I didn't get any feedback.

So last night, after we get the kids in bed, I come out from my daughters room and my W is already in bed early. Cool. So I slipped into the bed with her, turned towards her, put my arms around her, and gave her a kiss. Well in response to that she rolls her eyes and says loudly in an unpleasent tone, "Oh no, FTF is horny!" as if talking to someone else.

So I back off and she goes back to watching the TV and pulls out a book to read.

I immediately feel the resentment and anger rising up in me and I decide that I need to choose my words very carefully. Running through my mind is all of that stuff above and then I move on to "She knows this is my #1 need, the way she just blew me off makes me think she does not think it's important to meet this need and on top of that, is sort of mocking me for having it in the first place. She's read the material, she knows better, but she does it anyway." etc, etc, etc.

I started to say something, can't even remember what it was, but I caught myself mid sentence, realizing it was a DJ. All I could think to say that didn't seem like a LB was "That makes me feel bad."

I just don't know how to deal with that better. I feel like she had a chance all day to work towards meeting that need for me that evening. I tried to present it in a way that gave her the opportunity to express how to make it enjoyable for her too.

I feel like this has just added more resentment and I'm going to carry that added resentment into the next time she actually does make an effort in that area. I already know it's going to be some form of pity sex. And that just does not meet the need. Sorry. More resentment.

No idea how to handle this or discuss it with her in a way that doesn't introduce a Love Buster. Especially since I feel like it's just going over the same things again and again.

Hi FTF
Read the article, The Question of the Ages: How to get the Sex You Need in Marriage. If you have already read it, read it again.

The purpose for sex for most women is to establish/express that bonding. Likely, this is what drove your WW to want daily SF with the OM. And also why she is not interested in it w/you.

But you can't get her in the mood, nor can she herself, by just having ample notice to think about it. In fact, that might even cause her to feel turned off. Women are just wired differently than men. (Generality, of course...)

If she is like most women, she needs romancing... Lots of affection, little actions throughout the day. Try wooing her. And then bonding time prior to actually slipping between the sheets. That is the purpose of date nights... If you want help with suggestions for romancin', ask the forum members!

And what are her top EN's

FTF, no, i cannot really recommend threads, as i tend to stay off BH threads, but it will help you to dig around and read them.

what were your "little hints" during the day? were you meeting her ENs? or were you reminding her "i want SF tonight?" ENs will lead you to +SF, though perhaps not immediately. reminders will lead you to -SF.

i have to scroll back up and see where you are in recovery. i'm not sure you've started.

good to see you were on the show!

ok, ftf, i've just read all your posts again. you got some very good advice already. i see that you are working hard to not commit LBs - great! i know how hard that is, *especially* if you are resentful.

however, where are you in EN meeting? how are you spending your UA time? you will have to focus on meeting her non-SF intimate needs (IC, RC, affection) if you want to get to SF. right now, her LB$ is in the red. if you want to restore your M (and get SF), you need to make enough deposits not just to bring it back to in the black, but *beyond* that.

ftf, right now you are in a horrible place. your WW has had an affair, and your needs are not being met. it takes great strength to be able to meet WWs needs in order to restore the relationship, which is why i suggested reading (and posting for sure) on other BHs threads. you need to see the fight they've had to make (that's metaphorical) and where they've ended up so that you can see for yourself that this can work for you.

you are doing very well to work so hard on eliminating LBs. this is progress, and you deserve a pat on the back for that. but getting your WW in love with you again requires both halves: eliminating LBs, making LB$ deposits. have you two re-filled out the ENQs? also, you need to be spending that UA time creating new memories that will push OM out of her mind. UA time is crucial - use it wisely, and go gangbusters on EN meeting!

ps: it would be very helpful if you would add a signature line:

BH - me (age)
WW - her (age)
M - year married
DS 5 yrs
DD 2 yrs (or whichever gender they are; ds=darling son, dd=darling daughter)
DD (d-day) date
TT (trickle-truth) date(s)
NC date
short statement on where your relationship is at the moment.

the reason i ask this of you is so that posters who are helping several people can keep the stories straight without having to reread the original postings over and over. if you need help on how to do it, just ask. it's in your profile, and will automatically append it to your posts if the box below the reply box is ticked, "Add my signature to this post."

I can see both of your points. I wasn't saying "Hey remember I want to do it tonight" or anything blatant like that. Maybe it came across that way.

Her top two needs are Conversation and Family Commitment.

Yesterday we were home together all day with the children. We had lots of little conversations through the day and well, I spent almost the whole day with her and the children. Bonding time in the evening did not happen because she went to bed early to watch TV and read her book while I was still putting the youngest to bed.

I suspect that she also has a need for affection but hasn't listed it in her top needs yet because of this disconnect we still have. I asked her last week what she needed to be in the mood in the evening and the only action item I got was little massages during the day, which I would put in the Affection category.

The prior two nights, we spent out on dates. Dinner and billards one night and the next night dinner and a live comedy show.

Again, I get what both of you are saying, but it seems there should be some work on her part to at least give me some direction on how to get her in the mood. Even when we do make love, it almost always is very one sided, and I hate that. It's like "Don't bother trying to get me in the mood. Why don't you just lay back and let me break out the lube." That's just not very appealing to me, and it does not meet my need for SF.

Should I not try to find a way to convey this to her?

FTF
Nope... Because you can't MAKE her want to have sex with you. And neither can she MAKE herself.

And yes, it will feel like you are doing all the work right now. Which sucks, because you are the injured party, AND have the added burden of resentment. However... This is your job right now.

So, keep up with the LB avoiding. (Good for you for tackling that one!) And make a specific plan to meet her EN's and follow it. Remember that your EN-meeting will have limited success right now, as she is likely still foggy around the edges from the A drug. The analogy of filling a lake with a teacup is a good one.

I found it really helps me to put my resentment aside if I have a SPECIFIC plan for EN meeting, and follow it. Like a daily exercise program. (Monday, I will do X at 10 am, I will do Y at 2 and I will do Z at 5.) Really helps keep my focus, and helps keep my eye on the long term goal (a wonderful, loving, passionate marriage.)

Keep posting...

No we haven't refilled out the ENQ yet. I'm going to suggest we do that again tonight. I hope she will agree to do at least some of it.

I like the suggestion to form a plan to meet those ENs. I'll see what I can come up with.

Oh, and I added my signature lines. Thanks for the suggestion.

You've received some great advice from Catwhit and Letty. I agree that sending her little sweet texts throughout the day is responding to her need for affection. Maybe bring home flowers or take food every so often. Do things the way you did when you were courting her.

Dr. Harley suggested you treat your wife like she is your treasure. She would likely enjoy being admired: "You look so pretty." "You are so beautiful." That kind of thing.

All of this must be done without it leading to sex, at this point, just like when you were courting/dating her.

I know this is a crappy position to be in, but if you want your marriage back, this is what it will take on your part. Your wife's part, as Dr. Harley discussed, is to make you her only man, so there is no contrast effect with some other guy.

It will take a while for your wife to trust that you will not be love-busting with SDs, DJs, and so on, so keep on doing all you can. Give it a few weeks and she might find herself falling in love with you again. When she is in love you, she will WANT to meet your need for SF. And she will enjoy it, too.

Hi ftf,

I relate to your wife in some aspects of sf and when I am not feeling "in love" with my husband it drives me the opposite way when he expresses his desire for sf too much. Right or wrong the neediness turns me off. Also massages done with sf in mind are turn-offs.

What does turn me on is his meeting my emotional needs without expectation of sf. Try meeting her expressed need for massage and touch often without any sf overtures following. Also she expressed she likes muscles. You dont have to be a bodybuilder to get major points just for starting and maintaining weights/ cardio work-out. It turns me on when my husband exercises because he is trying and appears motivated and disciplined. It's a turn on even though he remains overweight.

One last thing- the tentativity you may have displayed by talking about your desire throughout day and maybe even in initiating sf is probably a turn off to her at this point. After you have spent a few days filling her love tank with no expectation, seize an opportunity, and confidently and assertively kiss her with tenderness and passion- not a quickie. Have your hands cupping her head so If she starts to pull away ( might be initial dedensive reaction) you can stay in the drivers seat a few moments more. My husband has done that with me before and it has helped to take me past my defensiveness and head space. You can either leave her hanging after ( to be continued) or go for gold:)