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Regarding the comment that you believe what your WH is telling you now...
Your WH has a long standing (years) history of having a SSL (secret second life). The way that Dr Harley describes this (dishonesty) is that it becomes a bad habit, one that is difficult to break.
He has never given his SSL up. This is part of the reason that he has remained foggy. Poly is a great first step to him giving the SSL up.
I am very sorry to tell you that I am CERTAIN there is more that he is hiding. That is the MO of a serial cheater, nevermind a serial cheater as many affairs as your WH.
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Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. 
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I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. Im sorry if it seemed you took time to write to me and I stopped responding.
My H is basically around 24/7 and its difficult for me to spy, type here and prepare NC and exposure letters without arousing his suspicions as to what Im doing. We also have houseguests.
I have some time now and am going to go back and respond to posts I havent responded to.
Janna
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don't let anything about ow throw you off, so what if she is a bully, you don't need to read anything take any calls, you revealed the truth nothing more. Jessi Its not so much about throwing me off although the last time I had an encounter with her ranting at me on the phone it made me ill for a while. My main concern is the truth part. I no longer have any proof of the affair other than the most recent contact. She would lie under oath if it suited her IMO. Janna
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To Janna -
You're sure you're getting the truth now? How hard is he working to win you back? Is he even breaking a sweat? Kayla It appears theres some discrepancy between his version and my sources about who contacted who first as I kind of suspected there would be as his version of events didnt make much sense. I havent confronted him on this yet as I just figured it out a few minutes ago. Janna
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serial cheats are ingrained liars. here's a quick test (and i'm not being a smarty pants) is his mouth moving? trust nothing a wayward says unless you can verify it. this means if WH says it's sunny out, you gotta step outside and have a look.
janna, i'm not trying to be mean about it. i'm just saying that WH has a long history and fully ingrained habit of lying. if you decide to recover the M, you will have to verify. the good news is that verification will help create trust in your new relationship together, so don't discount it. Letty I will be verifying. I am pretty good at reading my Husband's tells when he lies. Janna
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From SusieQ
You need to tell us more about his 10 affairs so that we can help you develop an EP plan (who the OW was, how they met and how they conducted the affair, email, phone)
Not sure I can give specifics from memory for each one. Most of them were workplace A. A couple were neighbors he had when we were separated.
My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc.
He used email to a minor extent, but mainly phone or personal contact he had at work.
A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up(most of them fit this mold) cry on his shoulder about their problems/relationships and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.
Janna
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What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)
I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation. Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK? Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable.. Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior. SusieQ Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history. I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me. I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before. Janna
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Janna ... your posts make no sense.
Your WH is a raging lunatic of a serial cheater and has been for what Four decades?
Yet you write on this forum on how you know when he is telling the truth, that he won't do this no more, and that you feel you can save this marriage now?
I am sorry but this makes no sense. There is not one action he is doing that says he isn't anything except a raging lunatic of a wayward.
Run Janna Run ... your mental state scares me.
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My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc. All cheaters are the same -- they didn't close their LB$ to members of the opposite sex. Your WH most definitely chases women -- it doesn't matter that it doesn't happen in a bar. It sounds like working with the opposite sex is a major issue for your WH -- not only is this where he is hooking up with women but it is how he conducts his affair even with non work affair partners. Dr Harley basically told me that my ex would probably have to work at home with me or get a job that doesn't involve him working with the OS. I believe the advice would probably be the same for your WH.
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A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up...cry on his shoulder...and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.
Uhhhhh, okay then. I guess your definition of an affair requires psychologically well-grounded partners, wined, dined, and flowered? Have you read ANYTHING on this site?
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Janna ... your posts make no sense.
Your WH is a raging lunatic of a serial cheater and has been for what Four decades?
Yet you write on this forum on how you know when he is telling the truth, that he won't do this no more, and that you feel you can save this marriage now?
I am sorry but this makes no sense. There is not one action he is doing that says he isn't anything except a raging lunatic of a wayward.
Run Janna Run ... your mental state scares me. wow...I dont think thats what I said at all. I said I know his tells(the physical things he does) when he lies. I have some professional training in that. Does that mean I know every time he lies...no....because it requires me to pay very careful attention and when Im emotional I dont always remember to do that. Janna
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What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)
I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation. Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK? Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable.. Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior. SusieQ Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history. I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me. I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before. Janna Huh? Going to therapy to explore his childhood issues that caused him to rage at you doesn't like he ever took the proper steps to address his anger issues. Plus you basically said you are afraid to anger him. It seems like you wanted to use the anger issues to avoid exposure but then when pressed, you are telling us there is no more anger issues. You can't have it both ways
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My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc. All cheaters are the same -- they didn't close their LB$ to members of the opposite sex. Your WH most definitely chases women -- it doesn't matter that it doesn't happen in a bar. It sounds like working with the opposite sex is a major issue for your WH -- not only is this where he is hooking up with women but it is how he conducts his affair even with non work affair partners. Dr Harley basically told me that my ex would probably have to work at home with me or get a job that doesn't involve him working with the OS. I believe the advice would probably be the same for your WH. SusieQ......I wasnt describing how he got involved to say it was somehow less offensive than going to a bar to search them out. Was just describing his MO. Hes a lazy cheater.... In any case, hes retired so Im not sure what the EP would be. Janna
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What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)
I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation. Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK? Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable.. Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior. SusieQ Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history. I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me. I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before. Janna Huh? Going to therapy to explore his childhood issues that caused him to rage at you doesn't like he ever took the proper steps to address his anger issues. Plus you basically said you are afraid to anger him. It seems like you wanted to use the anger issues to avoid exposure but then when pressed, you are telling us there is no more anger issues. You can't have it both ways He doesnt direct anger at me abusively anymore and I dont think he would no matter what I do. But Im pretty sure he would just walk out if he felt he was out of control. That being said, I think theres a strong possibility that if I expose it will trigger his old issues. You learn how to cope in spite of old wounds, that doesnt mean they go away. My concern is more practical im my mind. If he walks out he will go to our other house. Right now we are 600 miles away from the OW he broke NC with and their A ended 5 years ago. Why would I do something that could provoke him to move back to a house thats 5 miles away from her? That seems patently stupid to me. Janna
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A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up...cry on his shoulder...and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.
Uhhhhh, okay then. I guess your definition of an affair requires psychologically well-grounded partners, wined, dined, and flowered? Have you read ANYTHING on this site? NG...not sure what your point is. What I was trying to convey was my Husbands MO as was asked by someone. They were A...but most of them were mainly about sex for him. The OW that he broke NC with was in his words him "trying to have a relationship with her because I didnt think I could make things work out with you." He was also seeing some of the other parking lot hos on the side. I am just trying to fill in the details....not minimizing them. And, yes Ive read a lot here in the past few months. Janna
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So most of his affairs happened at work and now he's retired?
Do you still work? Did he use his cell or home computer to engage in his affair activities? Where did he have SF with them? Are you guys ever apart overnight?
Just trying to figure out what needs to be done to set up his EPs.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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This is my second draft of exposure letter...It seems long, but I couldnt find template to fit exact situation and combined a couple.
OW friends and family
I am sending you this message as a friend or family member of OW. Some of you know that OW had an A with my H.
She came into my home to conduct this sordid A with my H while I was out of town or met him in his car by the railroad tracks after Thurs night bowling. When my H and I separated the A continued. Her H contacted me to inform me he had pictures of the two of them embracing.
Facing a divorce filed by her H, she began pressuring my H to divorce me live with her. At that point, my H decided he wanted to reconcile our M.
We have been have been working to restore our M for the last five years. Unfortunately, I have recently become aware that OW and my H are once again in contact.
I am not willing to tolerate a "friendship" that has previously caused so much destruction to both of our families. If you have any influence over OW, I hope you will urge her to respect her own H and marriage and stay out of mine.
I also wanted to make sure that those of you who have her around your husbands, know exactly what kind of person she is.
Take care
Janna
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[/color]So most of his affairs happened at work and now he's retired? T[color:#FF0000]Thats correct.
Do you still work? No, neither of us work.
Did he use his cell or home computer to engage in his affair activities? yes
Where did he have SF with them?
car, workplace a few times, our house once, their houses at lunch time, of course when we were separated he had his own apartment and most of it was there.
Are you guys ever apart overnight? not now; we both used to travel some
Just trying to figure out what needs to be done to set up his EPs.
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A little humor ......for once my H is away for the whole day(with someone I trust to keep him straight so I wasnt really worried) and I know beyone a shadow of a doubt he is where he says he is, doing what he should be doing, and behaving himself.
I am verifying of course.....by watching him on tv at an event that is televised locally.
Maybe his EP should just be to have a camera attached whereever he goes lol.
Janna
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