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BR, I don't mean to be part of a gang-up on you. And it doesn't even really matter to me that others agree with me. If Mel disagreed, I'd being fighting her about it tooth-and-nail and moderated all over the place No worries, HHH. However, I am not interested in "fighting" anyone. Given that this thread started four yrs ago and I was away from MB when the whole Mike/Mr V thing went down, I went back and re-read this thread to refresh my memory. Well now I'm just going to come right out and call this whole thread a bunch of bull [censored]. Mr V - "We also both had separate expensive attorneys representing us and she was fully aware of her rights. " Attorneys were in the picture yet both parties were clueless that they couldn't or likely wouldn't get a divorce while she was pregnant (and the pregnancy wasn't even mentioned in the initial post...that's kinda an important detail to casually throw out later)??? I don't buy it. The IP address is the same because...drumroll...    Don't feed the trolls.
Last edited by black_raven; 03/08/13 02:16 AM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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"Sadly, it is not hard for me to believe that Mrs V is the SOLE problem here. I do not see Mr. V as an abuser. My ex pulled this sort of stuff with me and it was all in his head. Same shoe, different foot. "
I just don't see any evidence that MrsV is the problem, other than the fact that she allows her H to gaslight her. Dr Harley had the exact same reaction as me and I think we have pretty good instincts. If there were evidence that she is the sole problem, we would see it. It we don't. See what happens when you gave up your old hobbie? You better pick that pistol back up and start whipping.
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I admit that I am usually unaware of when trolling is happening on threads versus when real thoughts and problems are being discussed. This, however, doesn't seem to be trolling to me, so I still approach it as real.
I, too, was scratching my head that it seemed I was waiting for Dr. Harley's answer with more anticipation than V_, but realized afterwards she talked with her husband at the time she submitted it. I might be wrong and this woman needs antipsychotics, but I think she was "nudged" to pay no attention to the answer because it was now moot. It was moot because he denied saying that he wanted her to get an abortion. You see, the answer is inappropriate because husband tells her she misunderstood what he was _really_ saying.
The bonding that occurs between a person using abusive tactics and the person who receives them is a difficult thing to understand or believe, but it is definitely real. The thought patterns and natural instinct for self preservation seem to become rewired to a self defeating thought pattern. It appears to me that the on again, off again of V_'s board appearance is the part of the struggle we see of the isolation tactic not working all the time.
However, V_ is the one who needs to decide if enough is enough and realize that what she stands to lose by "consummating" the divorce is less than what she has to lose by staying in her current situation. She's the one that needs to decide if her emotional reactions should be paid attention. There is really no more we can tell her. She has all she needs between the articles and Q&A's, this thread, and Dr. Harley's answer on the radio to decide her path.
xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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I am also confused about the custody status of the children. V has said it is sole for him. He says it is joint.
ETA: Never mind. I gather the divorce settlement says that they will live with him. His wording was a bit dense.
Last edited by kerala; 03/08/13 08:02 AM.
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Again, they are not married.
It is a renter relationship.
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You see, the answer is inappropriate because husband tells her she misunderstood what he was _really_ saying. But she could have misunderstood. And I don't know if this is a trollfest or not...and let's say it is not (I will gladly eat my words too)...there are A LOT of things in this story that are  long before Mr V/Mike showed up. A big chunk of this thread is missing but I know I posted to the OP during that time but it is not there to refer back to. Anyway...there is no marriage to save. They aren't married. If exFWW wants to hang onto a relationship with Plan Hope then that's on her. If they both agree to living in this arrangement...so be it. I still question the carelessness of Mrs V and the things she has said that make me go hmmmmmmm. **shrugs**
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I, too, was scratching my head that it seemed I was waiting for Dr. Harley's answer with more anticipation than V_, but realized afterwards she talked with her husband at the time she submitted it. I might be wrong and this woman needs antipsychotics, but I think she was "nudged" to pay no attention to the answer because it was now moot. It was moot because he denied saying that he wanted her to get an abortion. You see, the answer is inappropriate because husband tells her she misunderstood what he was _really_ saying. This is exactly right. She "misunderstands" everything because, as an abuser, it doesn't matter what Dr Harley says because her husband defines her reality. That is why she "disappears" for years from this forum. He doesn't want her around us because we redefine her reality, making it harder for him to maintain his live in nanny and bed partner. However, V_ is the one who needs to decide if enough is enough and realize that what she stands to lose by "consummating" the divorce is less than what she has to lose by staying in her current situation. She's the one that needs to decide if her emotional reactions should be paid attention. Exactly. She is an adult woman. She is not a victim. If she wants to stay with an abuser, then she is a volunteer. Like I said earlier, however, she really needs to find a good female counselor who will help her with her disconnect with reality.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And they are not trolls. That is crazy.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There is another FWW on this board whose story tracked so closely to this one (sans the pre-emptive divorce complication) that I would expect the denouement will be precisely the same. The comes a time when one's past offenses cannot dominate the current situation, and the landscape of today must be judged as it is, not how it was formed.
"Hit me again, I deserve it!" cannot be the response to fresh abuses.
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I admit that I am probably the last person on this board qualified to post to this thread, given my own situation...but reading these latest developments has helped me look at my own failed marriage and current "arrangement" with a new perspective. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here...I have a box of books I was going to get rid of - basically my entire collection of books purchased while desperately seeking for a "magic cure" to recover not only broken and my marriage but myself. This morning I pulled one out of the box, titled, "From Shame to Grace: Healing the Shame We Don't Deserve." The author defines shame as a persistent feeling "that we are not acceptable, maybe unworthy, and are less than the good person we are supposed to be...Shame is not necessarily a bad thing to feel...It can...be a warning that we are becoming the kind of person we do not really want to be. But shame is often an unhealthy feeling of unworth that is distorted, exaggerated, and utterly out of touch with reality." My apologies if posting excerpts from this book is inappropriate. From Chapter 3, Leading Candidates for Shame: Guilt Spreaders
Guilt overflows the banks of action and floods our being with shame. White water from a flowing river becomes a fetid swamp once it settles into the valley. So guilt becomes a stagnant shame after it has flowed from one thing we did over all that we are.
The shame equation equals this: one wrong act equals one bad person.
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I did, therefore I am; this is the fatal equation.
Let such people tell one lie, and in the twinkling of an eye, they are liars. They commit one act of infidelity, and they are therewith adulterers. They go to a party, talk too much, tell a story to the left of good taste, are reminded of it on the way home, and sink into a funky shame for being half-witted fools. This makes about as much sense as saying that if you pound a nail into one piece of wood you become a carpenter.
Approval Addicts
Some people cannot approve of themselves unless they know for sure that other people approve of them - like them, admire them, say nice things about them behind their backs, and let them know that they are acceptable. Low on ego strength, they suck their self-esteem from others.
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So these people turn their lives into a run from somebody's approval...Most of all, the approval of the two people who nagged them from the beginning to make something of themselves and become a person that Mother and Dad and God could approve of. Note: I would substitite husband here for "Mother and Dad" - I think it appropriate in light of the situation.
Their husbands are stand-ins for God, and they are often hard put to keep the two distinct in their hopes and fears. If their husband cannot approve of them, it feels as if God is disapproving... From Chapter 7 - Social Shame: The Pain of Rejection: We experience shame if another person despises us as if we were nothing but objects to use instead of persons to love.
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Have you ever heard of the spitting cell? Albert Camus tells us about it in The Fall. The spitting cell is a walled closet high enough for a prisoner to stand up in but with no room for him to move his arms. There is a hole in the door at the level of his face. It is just big enough to show his face, but the shape of the closet prevents him from turning his head. Every time a jailer passes by he spits in the prisoner's face, and he sees to it that he walks by often. The prisoner cannot wipe his face; all he can do is close his eyes. Now, if we're talking about an unrepentant wayward, then shame is deserved - it would be the type of shame that Smedes refers to as "healthy shame," alerting us that we are becoming the kind of person we don't want to be. I think - and yes, I am projecting here - that what both V and I feel is shame of the unhealthy variety. (everybody says, "Duh," right???) The bigger problem is not the state of the marriage (or non-marriage, as it were). The bigger problem is what V and I see when we look at ourselves in the mirror; the way we feel about ourselves when we lay down to sleep at night and cry silent tears because we feel that we can only blame ourselves for ruining what was once, if not perfect, then at least decent...that if we only hadn't committed adultery, maybe we could have "fixed" our marriages. What it comes down to, perhaps, is for us to accept what Pep has said so eloquently: Sooner or later, we must give up hope for a better yesterday. Hope has paralyzed both of us for far too long. I think both of us can see that, at least at times - but taking the next step...well, it is scary. Like stepping-off-the-edge-of-a-cliff scary. It's giving up on our hopes for a better yesterday...and giving up our hopes for a better future with our husbands. Realizing - no, internalizing - that we broke something that can never be repaired. Becoming a part-time parent. Losing a materially comfortable lifestyle. Obviously I am ill-qualified to advise V. But I worry about her. 
FWW
"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Divorced and posting on the "IN RECOVERY" forum seems dishonest to me. Massively self deceptive at the very least.
I have been trying to think of ways to appropriately apply IN RECOVERY MB advice to a divorced couple where one of the spouses hijacks the forum ID of the other.
I simply surrender and humbly admit my inability to offer proper MB advice in this situation. A situation where I am not ever certain that the most basic elemental facts are truthfully offered for us to work with.
It's a head-scratcher for me.
I guess, my most honest advice would be to PAY FOR marriage builders coaching.
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Of all the things that V's husband has done, I must say I find the fake posting handle to be the most mickey mouse.
I listened to the show. Dr H makes the abuser comment at the very end, almost as an aside, and it is in response to a query about insisting upon - and "mocking and disparaging" V's objection to - getting an abortion.
Having read Mr V's response, and V's own prevarication, I am no longer certain that letter (which I helped draft) reflected the reality of the situation.
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I listened to the show. Dr H makes the abuser comment at the very end, almost as an aside, and it is in response to a query about insisting upon - and "mocking and disparaging" V's objection to - getting an abortion. Knowing Dr Harley, the comment was in response to his insistence that she kill her child. THAT is about as sick, evil and abusive as it gets. Mocking and disparaging her is a fart in the wind compared to that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So, yes, he was able to use H's computer / server to post multiple times at such intervals. He could only do that if he were in your house, though. We all know that MikeX is your husband, MrsV. It is so sad to see your disconnect with reality over this issue. Are you really so far gone mentally that you would allow yourself to believe something you know is not true? Or is this an act to protect your husbands pride? This is why I suggested getting a counselor who can help you with reality testing. Your reality is being altered by a masterful gaslighter. But, you allow it, so he can't be blamed. By going along with his manipulations, you embolden him. You reward him for being a con-artist. Here is a guy who is so manipulative that he almost had you convinced to kill your own flesh and blood in order to stay with him and continue to offer your services as a live-in nanny and concubine. Of course he would hate Marriage Builders. That is the biggest threat to his little set up. But, you are a grown woman and not a child who has the ability to choose to stay and be abused.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Marriage: Mrs. V mentioned that she thought I didn't believe that we're religiously married. I most certainly believe that we're religiously married. Which "religion" believes in shacking up? I can't think of any that don't believe that two single people shacking up is not a sin. You divorced her, remember? And what "religion" believes in fornicating with an unmarried woman?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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If the friend was using that computer, I think. That would not result in the same IP address showing up. The same IP comes from using any computer in the same location.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The radio show where Dr Harley reads MrsV's email about the abortion and just compensation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=4613#Go to the 5 minute mark in the clip. "What is just compensation? **edit** writes she confessed to her husband about the having an affair, and she granted him a divorce she and primary custody of the children. She is now pregnant and her husband wants her to abort the child." Dr Bill Harley in radio clip in response to MrsV's email: "Just compensation has to do with restoring the marriage. The idea that she should give up her marriage and give up her children is not what I meant by JC. And I certainly don't mean to get an abortion! JC is not punishment. It is a compensation for the affair that isn't going to hurt you. What she did was not just compensation and I would have never advised She should get an attorney if he is unwilling to restore the marriage. She should get an attorney and get joint custody and financial support. He is an abuser. She needs to get out of there." Another point, MrsV, is that just compensation is intended for the purpose of recovery of your marriage. Your H is not interested in any such recovery, though. He is only interested in keeping a live-in babysitter and concubine.
Last edited by Fireproof; 03/08/13 08:58 PM. Reason: removing name
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yup posted it already here in her thread.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Where? I spent about an hour looking for it and could not find it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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