The internet and these forums are by nature restrictive when it comes to actually getting a clear sense about how another person thinks.
I just could not get a handle on your WW's thinking at all.
Her guard, her emotional wall, seems very impenetrable. This is not usually a result of a WW having an affair. Was your wife always this impervious to emotional intimacy? You see, it is actually emotional intimacy she resists.

If you think she was emotionally intimate with OM, I'm here to tell you she was not. She fakes it.

I know I am saying things that probably seem to be a great stretch being I only have forum-based data.

But, you know her. Am I very wrong?

But wouldn't such words typically belong to a spouse that was all-in and wanting the marriage to work?

Or would they belong to someone that was thinking that volunteering for a checkup would cause you to drop the subject? Because, after all, why would she say "go ahead" if she knew that she was guilty?

Who knows. Your call.

That's my question as well. Is this just a segment in a long chain of consistent events and behavior.

That's a deeper question than you might think. As far as the law is concerned, she is mine, end of story. As far as I am concerned she is mine. I am daddy.

Would it change anything? Well, I'd say it would have a serious affect on my desire to be married.

Nah, she is not bluffing. I could speculate, but that just gets me into trouble. For example, suppose she wasn't sure it was mine until the kid was born? I would never get a truthful answer to that. But again, that's just paranoia I think?

I don't think you are very wrong. She has very high walls and shuts down to anything that resembles being emotionally intimate.

She retreats.

Very few times have I gotten a real emotional response from her that she will verbalize. I read about how women in general like to talk about relationship and this and that. She is not like that at all.

It's not just with you that she shuts down. You understand this, right?



She's afraid.


Have you ever seen a powerful non-verbal response? Under what circumstance, if any?

Well, I guess you are right, but I only know what I see when I am around so it is possible she is not like that with others. How would I know? But I think you are right.

Not sure what to do with that information though.


Maybe she is.


The only thing I can think of off the top of my head. This made an impression on me.

One time, she was out in the back lawn mowing the grass and th eoldest (at the time the only) was out back as well. Our backyard is fenced in, but our front yard is on a semi-busy street.

Well, she had come into the back yard through the gate and left it open. Our son wondered out of the gate and to the road. A man in a van saw him, stopped, and brought him back to the back where my wife was still mowing.

The first I heard of it was a scream through the house of "Hey A**hole! Our son was down by the road and you were supposed to be watching him!

Never does she speak this way to me so I was stunned a little.

I then made a mistake and kind of blabbered something about the gate being open and wasn't she the last one through it?

Oh that did not go over well. She said "Oh yea you're right, it's my fault." very sarcasitcally and then STOPMED around the yard as she finished mowing the grass.

I know that was a verbal and non-verbal thing but it's one of the few I can remember.

Most of the time she gets mad about something but clams up and retreats. usually to sleep.

OK. I was actually thinking about emotional responses that might demonstrate emotional intimacy. Her deep emotional investment in someone other than herself?
Have you ever seen her eyes well up with tears when she was overcome with joy/beauty/happiness?

She cries at movies sometimes or maybe when reading a sad story.

I don't think I've ever seen her cry in happiness or joy, but I could be mistaken. it could be I just don't remember it.

OK.
Is this conversation going OK with you? You can ask me to stop anytime, and I will stop.

I was wondering what Dr Harley would ask your wife if he were to post to her. I wonder if your wife is too impervious to intimacy to permit you to meet her intimate ENs.

I just can't tell.

I mean, we can tell you a hundred ways to meet her ENs, but if she is decidedly walled off, I'm not sure where to go next.

Have you ever written to the radio program?

They were on the radio program Jan 16th of this year. They are in the first four segments -- Wendy & John. I don't see where the links to their segments were ever posted to his thread, and I don't know how Brainy works it.

This was us.

It's fine. I'm just not sure what you are trying to get at.

Pepperband, did you listen to the show? I remember that Wendy sounded devoid of emotion, IF my memory is correct.

To be fair, you don't do a lot of speaking as a caller.

When Joyce was going over the A for background purposes, I saw some emotion on my W face. She definately was not comfortable with it. I remember thinking that I felt a little better knowing she looked like she actually felt bad about it. I don't get that emotion expressed much although I do think it is there.

I'm searching for a way to help your wife.

My husband has an enigmatic style too. Very difficult to recover and difficult to describe the troubles to this site. Hard to feel validated anywhere.

That's funny because for me, looking at your situation without anything invested in it, I'd tell you to bail and let him chase you for a change.

Which makes me wonder if I was reading my own story, would I advise me to do the same thing?

It is different when you have some skin in the game, yes? Emotions are a part of it.