People used to pass around a bit that in one of the infidelity articles, Dr. Harley stated that if he ever had an affair Joyce would kill him, and that if Joyce ever had an affair he would never see or speak to her ever again.

This used to be passed around to people who felt like throwing in the towel.


However, what followed that statement was key to the point that Dr. Harley would make; that is the way most people think they would react to their spouse having an affair.


Generally, we have no idea how we would react to a situation we have never faced, nor do we have an idea how we would react to a repeat of the same situation were it to happen again.

We can try to decide how we will act, but how we feel about it is outside of our control.

FTF,

That's a deeper question than you might think. As far as the law is concerned, she is mine, end of story. As far as I am concerned she is mine. I am daddy.

Would it change anything? Well, I'd say it would have a serious affect on my desire to be married.

Ultimately it's more a matter of getting radical honesty from your WW, which a couple needs to thrive, and the shortcut to this is a polygraph. Whatever is true needs to be known. Perhaps your WW was an emotionless cheater for years who lived off of the pure lust of a series of affairs, perhaps it's that she was molested as a child and never told you?

The thing is that you don't want to be in your marriage 10 or 20 years from now with the same doubts, and a W who refuses to talk anymore. This is where I am now.

God Bless
Gamma

So new question. How can I keep things in the forefront of my W mind? We had a great discussion last night based on why she was afraid to open her LB$ to me. As of this afternoon though, it's like we never talked. I said something about it and she said "Oh gosh I haven't even thought about it."

Really? I feel like I'm engaged in this thing all of the time. I am constantly thinking things over and going over all of this in my mind and it's like she doesn't give it a second thought unless I bring it up.

I kind of feel like just compensation is making an effort to keep this on the front burner for lack of a better expression.

Am I off base here? Thoughts?

No, you're not off base here. A WW is different than a WH, who is more likely to come back hat-in-hand. Your situation is well understood, though you'd probably benefit from hearing from a FWW in this.

All I can suggest is that you give her a reason to get involved in the marriage again. To her, I suspect, it's the same old same old...as though nothing really changed with the affair so why would she hope that it would get any better? Sure, there's lots of talk but nothing really comes of it. She's already checked out, your goal is to get her engaged again...if you still want to.

Only you can decide how long you'll wait for her to get on board, and I believe that she should be made aware of this fact: that you aren't hanging around forever and that this will end in divorce if things don't change.

But I don't really think that you guys have even given this a chance or a start, if you will. It all goes back to the UA time which is not something that you can really skim over. She even acknowledges the concept in her thread and admits that your amount of time spent together is pretty paltry.

If spending time together was easy, then you wouldn't be here to begin with.

What about this vacation that was discussed a few days ago? If I recall, she was open to it and there was talk about childcare arrangements. Did you bring it up since then?

Continuing as-is didn't work then and it won't work now or in the future.

Well that's part of the problem of course. She came straight out and told be day before yesterday that she didn't think spending time together was going to make someone fall in love. She believes there has to be a spark there first.

Again she sounds a lot like my hubby ---very skeptical and marginally interested or not at all. I can say it does not help to explain how this works. But now after 3 years of my husband relaying his IB beliefs and philosophies when I attempted to 'straighten him out'---- here is what is happening: He is coming around. Sometime its dramatic and more often its slight shifts. There is more positive these days then the maddening pessimism and ambivalence.

Here is what I feel has happened and helped:

When my husband would say something disheartening like what your wife said for example: she does not believe spending time together will create love.

That's the kind of stuff I'd hear. And its not like my husband had any kind of solution that would truly be helpful either. And its not like he was spending time searching for an answer or running to a lawyer. And he hasn't come on here to debate his philosophies in this forum. We tried a counselor and he wouldn't talk or try their methods either. Apparently he just wanted to stay in one place and have me running circles so we could be miserable.

I think I read every self help marriage book there is. I've got this big stack. I also tried one on one counseling and thankfully I understood the weaknesses in that route from this place.

Now finally I'd say its me who's changed. I'd come here and post when we first started three years ago. But after awhile as my husband was so enigmatic and supposedly philosophically superior I could not stand the inertia, failure, and rejection. Coming here felt like I was rubbing my nose over and over in my own failure.

But finally being lonely more with my husband then with out him pulled me back in. I had to do something and felt I at least have to be all in or out. Not long ago when my husband was making one of the disheartening comments about this program I told him this program is now part of me. He had claimed he want to remain married to me. I said well dear this program is me, its who I am now. So of course if he reject the program he rejects me.

Just time is not enough.
Quality mutually pleasurable time is what is required.

Of course. Caught the W on the computer this morning looking for places we might go on our mini vacation.

Your wife says you only spend 11 hours a week together.
Dr Harley says you need to spend 20 hours.
What's going on?

Well we now have a plan in place that is bumping that up to 19.

We have added 2 hours each Sat and Sun during the day where we can go to the YMCA and have the kids watched there. We also get 4 hours at night on Fri and Sat. That gives us 12 hours just those two days.

The rest is 1 to 1.5 hours every other night of the week although the quality of that time isn't as good I'll admit.

Okay. These 1 hour times in the evening.
Are they alone time?
Are you able to meet emotional needs?

Are you listening to the radio show every day (you can listen on your smartphone with the free MB app)

Yes, it is alone time. I'll admit that it is mostly time spent on the couch watching some of our fav shows. It does give us something to talk about durin gthe commercials and the next morning.

I know TV time isn't ideal, but it IS something we both enjoy and I've started making sure we are on the same end of the couch. I've found a position where she can lay on me and feel comfortable and that lets me have a chance to hug her close.

We usually end up making something to go along with it like popcorn so we have that going on.

I've also been able to get some discussions going by talking during the commercials or switching it to something she is not all that interested in so that she doesn't mind talking during whatever it is.

So yes, I am able to get in some IC and AF during those times.


I have the app and listen to the whole thing every day. I have headphones and catch it in about 10 min segments throughout the day as I take my breaks at work.

Way to go FTF! Great job adapting to the TV situation by applying MB concepts. I really like the hold her as ya'll watch idea! I use that one myself.
Keep it up, your doing great!

I'm sorry but this advice flatly contradicts the crystal clear advice that Dr H gives, in print and on the radio show, frequently enough that it should have sunk in for all MB posters by now.

TV watching isn't UA time. Talking about TV programmes in the intervals isn't UA time. Your marriage to your very withdrawn wife will never recover from her affair unless you start dating again, which means getting out of the house for 20 hours a week, without the kids. The only thing you can do at home that counts as UA time involves taking your clothes off.

I'm sorry to contradict the poster that gave this advice - but as a fairly new poster you are getting things wrong sometimes. We won't help struggling marriages by back-slapping and high-fiving attempts to "adapt" the programme. It must be done properly the way Dr H intended, or a marriage in as much trouble as this one will fail.

Okay........... You need to DEDUCT any time that is spent watching TV. Obviously, you are not focused on each other when you are doing that so it is NOT undivided attention.

You can keep doing this, but I just tell you that you are wasting your time. It is very destructive when a couple pretends like they are working a concept when they are not. The reason it is so destructive is because you will eventually decide the "program doesn't work" when your pencil whipping exercise doesn't benefit you AT ALL.

If you want to get ANY benefit from this program, you are going to have to REALLY DO IT. Altering the program to suit a lifestyle that cannot sustain a marriage will avail you nothing. You have to alter the HABITS that did not sustain your marriage.

So, just deduct any time that was spent watching the boob tube. What are you left with then?

How is it that you have TIME to watch the stupid TV but don't have time to get your UA time?

If you want to change your marriage, you will have to change your BEHAVIOR, *not* the program.

That is a good start! [just delete the TV watching] What are you doing on Friday and Saturday? Can you get a couple of hours in during the week? For example, going out to dinner or a drive? The time needs to be spread out during the week in 2-4 hour blocks.

FFF, I have read through your wife's thread and I believe there is something keeping her in withdrawal. You might not even be aware of it and she might not be able to articulate it. Longwayfromhome and Sugarcane have made an excellent suggestion that she go fill out the Marital problem analysis and the lovebusters questioniare. Please encourage her to fill those out HONESTLY and come back and share them with us. That may pinpoint the problem.

Look, I know the TV watching doesn't really count. I'll bet I can recite chapter and verse as good as anybody here. I have read and read and re-read.

I know that the following don't count:

movie watching
tv watching
going out with friends
going out with children
playing on a softball team together

I get it, I really do, but I can't make my wife want to do the right things.

But I will try harder. Maybe I can convince her to do 3 nights a week out.