Hi all... I'm an oldie returning after a bit of hiatus.... (Old timers will remember me as ABR before I was discovered on this site...)

So, quick back story, few years ago, H had an EA, with very little PA. Did my plan A, ended up in plan B. H realized he was stupid, and came back.

Fast forward to last month. His company hired a new girl. Young, fresh out of college. She's been working on and off with my H. (He telecommutes, so he isn't in the office, and there are several states between him and her). He's told me about her, at least as much as he wants to... Told me he was keeping things professional, and that she had a BF else he wouldn't feel as okay talking to her.

Recently, I noticed he was getting more loving towards me. Kind of surprising, but very welcome.

Then it struck me, something wasn't right. Alarms started going off. So, I start to snoop. H knows I know his emails and passwords, that I may occasionally snoop, etc. So, I noticed, I thought he had been emailing this girl a bit more than he would an average coworker. But, couldn't find anything. Then looked at the sents. Saw an email that was a little more personal that he should have been. Ok, fine, but again, bells start going off more.

Then, after the weekend, I went to snoop again in his email. The email in the sents was gone! Who REALLY deletes their sent emails? Especially just one??? anyone?!?

So, looked in the trash. H didn't think to delete the trash (to my happiness AND saddness). Been keeping copies of the emails - definitely bordering on inappropriate. And they skype - have I mentioned I really HATE skype between this and the crap that happened a few years back - and apparently since I was home last week they had to keep their conversation professional, and thinking about using "code words" in case they have to keep things professional. 2

I am now looking to record his conversations, because obviously I'm missing more, shall we say interesting, conversations they have.

I've busted out my SAA book, really working on a good plan A to get his mind back to me and us and such. I just wanted to get back on here cause I am in need of support again. I'm going to keep snooping right now and get more evidence.

Sad to be back, but hello again....

CD

What EPs did he put in place?

Put a keylogger on.

Why do they need to Skype?

Also put a VAR where he skypes.

Have you given any thought to what plan you will use IF you discover an EA? A PA?
It is my opinion .... that a second D day (a new infidelity) after recovery deserves a nuclear exposure shock-n-awe, followed by Plan B.

So, sadly, this is my advice ... As you are gathering evidence, prepare for Plan B.
I hope you don't need Plan B.

If you decide to Plan A, that's OK too. Like I said, just my opinion.

*link* to Plan B instructions

Even if your choice becomes "Plan D" .... You should Plan B as the divorce unfolds.
Even if your choice is to Plan A ..... Your should prepare a Plan B .

If your choice is to Plan A .... my opinion is that the stick should be HUGE and the carrot be made of gold.

Plan A, for a second infidelity, should be ever-so brief. One week? 10 days?
Short & sweet.
Knock his socks off with your wonderfulness, then .... knock him out with your absence.

It is my opinion .... that your plan A will make you look like the grand prize, and he is the biggest loser.

If you stay together, he cannot take step one of recovery without talking to Steve Harley .... a LOT!!!

Sorry you are back

I just happened to be looking back at some of the advice I received following dday 3 -- I had ZERO interest in trying to meet my xWH' ENs (the thought made me ill), and a friend said something along the lines of the fact that Plan A works on a first time offender, helps to shake them out of their fog/fantasy a little bit -- but not on someone like your H or my xH, a person who is not clueless about how to protect a M.

Your H's latest A has nothing to do with unmet needs AT ALL. It's because he refuses to give up his SSL and because he refuses to close his LB$ to other women.

I would focus more on getting the evidence and preparing a plan for what he will need to do to keep YOU in the marriage.

Did you ever poly him regarding his past affair/s?

Did you ever put a keylogger on the computer? (I saw this was an issue in your past thread -- you wanted to do it and he was concerned about your snooping or something along those lines)

Dr. Harley also adds that (particularly for a wife), Plan A can consist solely of communicating the WILLINGNESS to meet emotional needs. i.e., IF you will agree to protect our marriage, then I am willing to meet your emotional needs. There is no point in a lady destroying her health and mind trying to outcompete an active affair.

Brainhurts - Got a VAR going... supposedly they are skyping while I'm at work... will be listening to it tonight. Also will be putting a keylogger on soon - just need to wait for a time to do so without being noticed. Luckily he doesn't know I've been snooping his emails - guess that's the "nice" part of my previous experience... I know better what to do.

Pep - oh how I've valued your input. Always have. Plan B would have to wait - I have no way of leaving this time. Soon, maybe, but not yet. So, a shorter Plan A can't be in the plans, but prepping for a Plan B will be. I have also been really really working the carrot - and will seriously plan for the crushing stick.

SuzieQ - very true about serial cheaters. I know why he does this. He's lonely. Am I excusing it? Heck no! I agree, this isn't about me this time. Last time? Yes, I will accept 1/2 the blame. Not this time.


**And just an update from today's snooping - seems SHE is putting the brakes on the unprofessionalness of their conversations. She has said she's not comfortable with the direction their convos have been heading, and wants to set limits/boundries. Have you ever heard of an OW actually putting the brakes on before it gets out of hand??? Will be monitoring this, but this to me is a VERY interesting twist compared to last time. (And no, that doesn't mean I'm stopping ANY of what I am doing, but I find that really interesting... And as far as I can tell, he has NO idea I've been snooping or that I am even the least bit suspicious...) Will be watching to see where this is going...

Thank you all for your advice and support thus far!!!

Markos, good thoughts. Will be keeping this in mind, especially after the stress and heartbreak of the first A...

Actually, he feels entitled to get his needs met elsewhere and he doesn't care that much about hurting you. Sorry to say

True, SusieQ... cake-eating, isn't that what it's called?

So, newest update. She asked him yesterday why he feels nervous talking to her. Found an email this morning (which I luckily got since it's already deleted... time to get a keylogger!) with him saying that he really likes her, more than he should , and telling her about how he tried and failed to get a divorce, and all this crap.

I'm broken. Worst part is he keeps telling me he loves me, texting me that, etc. I think it may have been easier last time when he just ignored me instead of this. I've almost got enough information. I am waiting on the latest recording to find out her response to his declaration of like, interest, idk.

Do I confront soon? Do I just expose and say F you? I do want to keep my marriage, but at what cost? I can't go through this every couple of years. He seems to regret he wasn't able to divorce me before... wtf? And I don't know if I mentioned before, we have a DS... what about him? I hate the fact that he gets stuck in between this.

No. You expose to others soon. Let WH find out you 'know' because you have exposed.
Who are your exposure targets?




Expose, yes. Leave off the "F".



WH does not think you have a limit to what you will put up with.
What IS YOUR LIMIT?
If you are NOT certain what your limit is, it's for damn certain WH does not know.


You did not bring this steaming pile of horse manure home, WH did.

Your son needs to be at the top of your exposure list.

Good question. His sister, maybe his dad and step mom. His mom hates me and would not be beneficial in any way other than to help him move out on me. I can expose to my friends and family, but we know whose "side" they would be on. There really isn't a lot of people... he really doesn't have friends.

ok


I told him the last time that I would NOT tolerate this again. I said if he pulled this crap again, I would file the D papers. Do I want to? Heck no. But I can't keep going through this cycle.

How does one explain to a 5 year old that his daddy is being an A-Hole???

Thank you pep, I appreciate you taking the time to help me.

I exposed to my 5 year old. In simple terms.
I said mommy is having an affair with CXXXXXX. When you are Married you are not supposed to have boyfriends or girlfriends.

Did you follow the recovery plan in his first affair?

OK.


The following is my opinion.
I think you should file for a legal separation if that is available where you live.
I do not think any BS should make idle threats or ultimatums.
You TOLD WH what you would do, if you do NOT "file", WH has no reason to believe you are serious.

If a legal separation is not an option, file for a D.
Do NOT announce your plans, just do this and let him find out when he is "served".

To a 5-year old "You know what marriage means? It means 2 adults make a promise to only be romantic with each other. Well, Daddy has broken his promise. Daddy has a girlfriend. This is not good. Mommy has to protect herself from Daddy having a girlfriend. This is not your fault. If you have questions about this, ask me. What do you want for dinner?"

Cake eating is a normal thing that waywards do.

What your WH has done makes him different from a normal recovered/ing WS.

He knows what going down this path means and he knows how much it hurt you and he did it, again. Not an oops, I let someone meet my needs and I don't know how this happened -- but he has gone out of his way to make it happen.

Why am I telling you this? If you decide to recover with this man, you need to raise the bar very high, so that having a SSL and having an affair is next to impossible.

Your signature line:




In fact I saw other red flags as I skimmed your last two threads. Ex) there was some excuse about your H rejecting MB because he had been poisoned against it by OW who found your thread??

cd, your H has never stopped gaslighting you. The reason he rejected MB is because he didn't want to make changes to protect you and because he didn't want to give up his IB and SSL.

If you choose to try to R this, you must insist from your WH that in addition to 100% implementation of MB that he also submit to a poly, because I don't think you have gotten the full truth from him regarding his first A and this would be a good first step towards him becoming radically honest.

You may want to also consider making him post here and/or sign a post-nuptial agreement.

I think Susie's advice is spot on ... this SSL is at the hands of your husband.

Something I would advise if recovery is in the works is to work with Steve Harley to really pin point both of your EN's.

The HIGH your WH gets trumps everything .... you and your son. He would rather throw you under the bus than get rid of this HIGH. This is why Dr. Harley calls affairs (EA & PA) addictions. Because this feeling your WH is getting will ultimately destroy everything.

I have only see serial cheaters recover on this forum by having ROCK SOLID EP's and their spouse works extensively to meet their EN's. It may be coincidence, but I usually see WH's who are serial cheaters have a very very high need for admiration and/or intimate conversation.

If you are not able to Plan B, then work your Plan A with lots and lots of admiration and lots and lots of intimate conversation. Since he is working from home, I would spend my lunches with him and I would make sure you up your family time with him. Try to get him to fully engage your DS. Maybe prepare small family trips over the weekends, so it is just the three of you.

Many prayers for you and your family.