Looks good!

Thanks ML.

I still have this nagging doubt that H will look at law of averages and figure he can fudge on a few and not get caught. (There are ___ number of questions. The odds of a particular question being asked on the poly are one out of ____ number of questions.) So, I guess I'm looking for feedback on that concern, too.

You will want to focus the polygraph on areas where you still have suspicions. If you suspect that he is trying to beat it, then that defeats the entire purpose. He will need to prove to you that he is being radically honest. This is his one chance. I think he believes he can lie and do whatever he wants and you won't do anything about it. Will you do anything about it?

Thank you, ML.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think H thinks I will do nothing. On Sat., we were on an outing for UA. He flirted with two women. I called him on it and he said he didn't know how to flirt! Gaslighting, big time. (I'm trying not to vomit!)

Dr. H is our accountability coach. I am documenting all of this. Right now, I think he's on H's side. I "don't make it safe for H to be honest". Maybe Dr. H will change his mind. Maybe not. If he does not, I think our marriage is doomed!

I am thinking of Plan A for three weeks, then Plan B. I'm already considering places to live. Have not made up my mind to try to stay in the area or move to be closer to my son and his family. There are pros and cons to each.

Please describe this event (the flirting) in detail.
It is important.
Thanks.

Dr H knows what it takes from both spouses to recover. He does not take "sides".
Dr H is on the "side" of your marriage.
Yours is an immature remark.

Ok. I'll take the hit. I do wish Dr. H had talked more about IB, though.

About the flirting:
Not joking around with other women is one of the identified EPs. He tries to be "cute".
1. Remarking to the ticket taker how "smart" he was to find her. They laughed together about both being "smart".
2. Asking restaurant patron "Do you come here often?" They laughed together about it.

I thought UA was supposed to be about H and W spending time together to meet each other's needs. It's not supposed to involve other people, right? I felt very disrespected, not only by the joking around/flirting, but also his taking phone calls, texting, and constant checking of his email. I asked him calmly to please let this few hours together be about us after the first phone call. I said nothing more about his IB after that until we got home and were discussing the day. Trying to remain calm while he continued the behaviors.

I do think the thing about H's not being honest because I "don't make it safe for him" is a problem. I have tried to make it safe. I have told and shown my H that if he is truthful, I will not get angry. The problem comes when we try to resolve the issue.

For example, H told me how wonderful the possible OW is. I think I did a commendable job of remaining calm. But, this is also when I started feeling insecure and inadequate. I went to MB. I discovered that EPs should have been put into place years ago, when he ended his first affair. So, the "revelation" started the ball rolling on EPs. He is not happy about that. So, I have "not made it safe".

Can you give an example of what an unsafe environment would be for him? From what you've said so far, it sounds like he's saying that the EPs make it unsafe and that doesn't make sense.

Wow777,

Yes. The reason it made it unsafe from his point of view is that he has been curtailed from IBs. For example, every year, including right now, he has been used to going on a several day golf trip with the guys. One of the essential parts of EPs is no more nights apart. So, after this trip, he won't be doing that anymore.

Also, he has been used to golf three times per week and tennis twice per week. Tennis was a mixed group. Possible OW is part of that group. No more tennis.
He looked into getting into another group, but has not found an all male group.

And, getting 15 hours/week UA with me would be difficult for him to do with all of his IB activities.

Sewer,

Have you and your husband completed the recreational companionship questionnaire to identify things that you both enjoy doing? If your husband stops his independent recreational activities without have something to replace them, he will not be happy. If he is having fun doing things with you, he will not miss the tennis or all that golf.



AM



AM

Thank you, ArmyMama.

Yes. We completed the questionnaire. He still was not happy with some of the things we did together. So, I said, how about YOU decide what those things will be?

The arboretum was HIS idea. I was in Enthusiastic Agreement, too. He said HE had a wonderful time.

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of Sewer's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4
Segment #5

Thank you so much, BrainHurts!

I listened several times that day and took notes. But, it's always good to listen again to see if I might have missed something. I had no way to do that, til now.

You're welcome.

That seems more inconvenient than unsafe. Soomething like making him stand on a busy street corner with a sandwich board sign that said "I cheated on my wife" would be unsafe for him.

EPs are inconvenient because they make the WS change their behavior and PROTECT the BS. These are the things that make the relationship SAFE for you. Stand your ground on them and tell him to man up (in an MB way of course) and start protecting you.

Thank you, wow

The IBs are a HUGE problem. He appears to be unwilling to see it. We are writing back and forth, right now, about it. (Don't want to have an AO, so that's how we are handling it.)

He does not "get" that emailing, phone calls, joking with other women, etc. are not Undivided Attention. So, from my perspective, he was not making love bank deposits. He was making love bank withdrawals. That, along with his golf trip, made MASSIVE love bank withdrawals. We had zero UA this week, aside from a few phone calls.

Does he know the concept of the Love Bank? My W read SAA but it seemed nothing was changing. Now, when we talk about the relationship, I only use MB terms like love bank, love busters, deposits & withdrawals. It's very clear and gets my point across. Because they aren't "my" words, then it seems less controlling to her.

In the beginning, and even still, I have to keep reiterating that my EPs are simply the boundaries that I am willing to live within to stay married. It's where I feel safe. W still doesn't like them much, but everytime they come up, I say, "I need them to feel safe. If we can't both feel safe in the M, we can't be married". I think theres still some fog/denial in her because at times, she thinks we are, or should be, further along. She wants this behind us NOW but I keep telling her, it'll happen when I'm ready to put it there.

Be calm and keep telling your H that your EPs are for YOU to feel safe. If he wants you safe, then they will be followed willingly.

Do you golf or play tennis? If not, maybe he could teach you. That would be excellent UA time.

Standing on a street corner with a sign that says, I cheated on my spouse COULD be dangerous...like people throwing eggs, or worse...lol!

I have TRIED tennis and golf, took a couple of series of lessons for golf, played tennis ONCE with my H (at which time I was told I was not good enough and he needed to find a different tennis partner. That hurt so bad, that I still get upset when I think about it.) So, we do other things for UA, but still have not found an activity we can do on a regular basis.

Yes, H knows the concepts, vaguely. He has "sort of'" read Dr. H's concepts.

Update on our back-and-forth letter writing:
We have agreed on future UA behaviors, all without any AOs, on my part! So proud of myself We agreed to no electronic devices and no joking around with OW. When/if he follows through, I will be proud of him, too!