Hi, this is my 1st post and I'm still learning how to and learning the acronyms.

I discovered my FWH EA 3 months ago. The OW lives in another country but comes here once a year. She would visit us then. I didn't know they were conducting their correspondence in secret for 10 years. He said he only kept it secret because I was jealous but that he had no unhealthy feelings for her and there was nothing in the emails that was wrong, as far as he could remember. He had deleted her emails. He was defensive and I was angry. In desperation, to find arguments against him having an opp sex friendship, I googled and found this website.

I tried getting at the emails and asked him for help but to every suggestion of mine (through server, our time capsule backup) he said it wouldn't work. Finally I asked my teenage DD and retrieved emails in time capsule from his sent box which he'd forgotten to empty. In the emails he talked of conflicting feeling for her etc. Every time I found an email with evidence, I would confront him with it, trying to get him to admit that he had feelings for her but he wouldn't despite the evidence of what he had written to her. He would say that he didn't know why he wrote those things.

He said he would send the NC email but I waited and he didn't, so I demanded that he did the day before she was due back in the country. He wrote it in anger and I saw him send it. He said doing it was hard but that since, he's only thought of her when I reminded him.

Unfortunatley I've been obsessing over finding and reading the emails since then and have talked too much about it with him which ususally ends in both of us feeling low. I'm having lots of resentment and am not very good at dealing with it. There isn't much in Dr Harley's books about how to deal with it.

I've read HNHN, LB, SAA and all of this website. He's read the first 3 and is making an effort. Admitted having unhealthy feelings for her only recently though.

In 1997 I caught him watching porn on the internet and masturbating. He promised to stop then but has now admitted that he never did. He's honestly trying to stop it but is tempted when alone in the house. I have only left him alone 2 times in 3 months but felt horrible. He resisted temptation he said but I want to instal a key logger with his knowledge. He was totally against it, saying it's like big brother is watching you. He hates the idea that he is not trust worthy. He says that the key logger company can spy on us if the data is sent to an outside source and that me installing it secretly is not radical honesty.

After he calmed down he offered to maybe instal software to stop him going to those websites but that is not enough for me. I want protection for emails too.

I haven't found a keylogger for Mac that doesn't send the data to an outside email address so far.

What should I do? I can see his point of protecting our privacy (passwords etc) but also can't rely on his word only.

I've fulfilled his SF needs from early on and he says it's just habit. He's mostly very happy now with me fulfilling his needs but he's not fulfilling mine (conversation and sharing his thoughts and feelings) that well. This week he ended up doing work for other people which he'd arranged without me before we adopted Dr Harley's policies. Ind behaviour is his big LB.

So my resentment over that this week combined with is refusal to have survaillance, has drained my love bank again.

Thanks for any advise.

Welcome to MB.

So if you read SAA and all of this website. Why haven't you exposed? Is this OW married?

Why would you tell him about the keylogger? That beats all the purpose of finding out if he is still living a SSL (secret second life). He has been having this affair for 10 years. He need to make radical changes.

Here Acronyms and Abbreviations

I didn't expose because I had the understanding that it is for physical affairs and it took me many weeks before I even came to the understanding myself that his friendship with the OW was actually an emotional affair. He also played it down for so long that I was insecure as to what it actually was.

The OW had a partner until 2 years ago and has been single since. She never wrote anything in the emails I found that indicated that she had any feelings for my H apart from regular friendship. He revealed 3 or 4 times in those years that he had feelings for her but he always also wrote that he did not want to betray me or leave me. She never responded to those sentences. I'm 99% sure she had no romantic feelings for him. It was clear that she didn't want to hide their friendship.

Also, I have had opp sex friends in the past and shared personal information with them. That's why I didn't tell my H to stop the friendship even though it upset me when she came to visit. However, unlike my H, I didn't hide my correspondence or develop feelings for them. My H says he only felt that way when he wrote it. The rest of the time he would often completely forget about her. There are often big gaps between emails. He has admitted daydreaming about a life with her but I don't want to punish him for his honesty. He knew it was a phantasy as she has habits that he doesn't like and is not a family person (we have 2 kids together and my H has 3 from a former marriage). She does however love the same outdoor sport and also a love of writing which I have always been jealous about. She shared her stories with him which have often sexuell content which a male of course finds exciting.

My H also rekindled an old friendship via FB with another friend 4 years ago who he told me about but again, I didn't know of the content or frequency of correspondence as he wrote from his work. I only saw infrequent contact via FB.
There was no evidence of any romantic feelings between either of them although there is potential as they liked each other when young, 30 years ago. She lives in another country also and recently visited us too for the first time. He actually found it harder to quit that friendship than the other one because he felt closer to her and they were more similar.

I guess I would find it hard to expose because it makes him look bad and reflects on me. Also, his ex wife had affairs and she and her 3 adult daughters would feel very smug finding out about his EA which bothers me, again, because it would make me look like an idiot. It comes down to me feeling embarrassed about having a husband who's dishonest and has some sort of feeling for another woman. He says it wasn't even infatuation and I guess he would have written more than every couple of months if it had been. There was only one time when they wrote more frequently, 5 months ago, when they had a discussion about physical intimacy and she mentioned some details of her former relationship. My H revealed some things then too which were private.

Maybe I'm kidding myself. I don't know. If I exposed now, it would set us back quite a bit. He would be very angry I think. He is serious about building up our relationship, although not perfect. I often make our time unpleasant because I ask him about the OW, details in emails etc. which doesn't help. I'm trying not to now as I don't want the low feelings anymore that we get from it.

I didn't want to instal the keylogger in secret because I find it really hard to be dishonest with him. Some WH here have written that they were happy to instal one because their spouse wanted it so I hoped my H would be too. I think for him it looks like I'm overreacting because his feelings for her weren't that much in his eyes.

We've worked out that his Taker is much in charge which explains his IB and my Giver is dominating in me which is why I end up giving in and never put a stop to the friendship earlier. He's sent NC emails to both women and I check his work accounts for correspondence. There hasn't been any. Neither women had romantic feelings for him, so I don't expect them to write.

I also don't feel right to instal a keylogger so I can "catch" him. I'd rather he knows and therefore won't be tempted in the first place. It's mainly for the porn issue, not so much the emails, although it makes that safer too. But maybe I'm too soft again?

Added: I guess I should mention that he once before had some infatuation like feelings 16 y ago but I think it's partly my fault. I was angry that he was putting his work first and we didn't spend much recreational activities together and went overseas to visit family even though he was still recuperating from an illness at home. The OW came to flat in our house to do his shopping for him and some cooking as he had a bad back and couldn't be up much. It was stupid in hindsight of course. It was one-sided again.

My way of dealing with his IB was DJ, AO and withdrawel which was very unhelpful too. He has always kept his feelings and thoughts mostly to himself. Started in childhood as he was punished harshly (his father was a minister) and soon learned it was safer to stay quiet and do what he likes.

We've done the questionaires and he's been honest. He's learning to reveal his thoughts more. We're doing the 15 h UA although we have trouble finding RA. We've always had kids around so never developed many together. Tonight we had SF, dinner and then ran out of things to talk about. Reading books side by side is not really UA and I only want to play games together with the kids as I don't like playing games that much. I'm trying out his orieteering and learning it but not liking it that much yet. I cycle with him to work and collect him. We go for walk while dd has sports practice. Still need to find some other RA.

What purpose whould expose have now?

I don't think you are very serious about saving your marriage. There is nothing we can do for you if refuse to do anything we suggest.

I wish you the best..

I don't understand why you say that MelodyLane. I feel my reply is more of a question 'why' than a refusal. If we are both implementing the changes, can our marriage not get better even if others don't know? Also, from my understanding Dr Harley talks about exposure in relation to physical affairs. Would he really ask exposure for EA? It never occurred to me before that I would need to expose. Having opp sex friends is such a normal thing in our society that I fear people will think I'm blowing things out of proportion. I am willing to do it if without it our marriage can't get better but the thought makes me feel very bad.

I haven't seen you ask a question "why." I have seen you outright REJECT basic MB steps. If you have already rejected these concepts, there is nothing we can do. We can't force you to use this program. We have saved our marriages by using these concepts. If you don't want to use them that is perfectly acceptable but there is nothing we can do to help.




So, you won't expose. You won't install a keylogger. You don't see the point of eliminating opposite sex friendships.

If you won't do anything to help yourself, there is nothing we can do for you. We can't be more serious about fixing your marriage than you are and have any hope of helping you.

An affair is an Affair whether it's an EA or PA. Dr. Harley says to expose even if it's an EA.

If you and your WH refuse to implement EPs then you're leaving your marriage open for more affairs.

Even the Harleys (who have never had affairs) have EPs in place. They would never have opposite sex friendships.

What makes you think a man would entertain an emotional affair with a woman for 10 years without physical contact???

We have implemented Dr Harley's programme as soon as we had read enough to understand it. I stopped having opp sex friends years ago and H has stopped all his ones soon after Dday. As soon as I had found enough emails so I could prove it wasn't just a friend from his side of things. We will never have any opp friends again.

I know that there was no physical contact because I read their old emails. She lived on the other side of the world and only came over here for 3 weeks once a year. There isn't a single reference in their correspondence about anything physical and she never wrote anything in her emails that would show that she had any romantic feelings for him. You would need both parties in agreement to have physical contact. She recently wrote that she was glad that it didn't matter to him if a friend was male or female and that she liked that about their friendship.

The only things I haven't implemented is the exposure and keylogger because I wasn't even aware that the keylogger was a requirement. I wasn't even clear myself until recently that it's an EA even if only one party has feelings. I have looked in the SAA last night to see if I can find where it says to expose an EA but haven't found it yet.

I'm thinking hard now about exposing but it's a very scary thought. I found it hard to go to sleep thinking about it and I'm up early. Your answers to me feel very harsh. I didn't really understand what feelings and how much, he had for her as there is very little in the emails and he consistently says it wasn't much. I thought the definition of an EA depended on knowing that there were inappropriate feelings. So I wasn't sure and it's been only in recent times that he admitted to them. But the correspondence was in secret so maybe that makes it an affair from his side.

3 weeks once a year is about 5-7 months time spent around your husband in person. How about you ask your husband for a polygraph and know the truth for sure?

Do you think it is realistic that a man keeps a secret pen pal for 10 years and has zero interest in physical contact when she is there once a year?

If it wasn't an EA then why didn't he tell you about it and not keep it secret for 10 years? What other secrets does he have? The keylogger is important because he has been lying and living a secret second life for ten years. There may even be more women or secret email accounts.

Your WH is very comfortable in his SSL and would have continued if you hadn't found the emails.

Why don't you have him take a polygraph so you know the truth about how far they went?
Polygraph Testing

We have seen many WS lie about the extent of their affair for years, some up to 20.

alis, I'm not saying that H had no interest in wanting physical contact with the OW. From reading her emails, she had no interest in my H in that way which is one reason nothing physical happened. We also didn't live in the city that she would stay in during her stay here, until 2 years ago and I was present when they met. I think I would have found something in their emails if there had been anything physical.

I have signed the marriage recovery agreement and don't want to be dishonest. I feel it would undermine the relationship with my H which has improved in a lot of ways since implementing the changes.

While I was typing earlier this morning, my H walked in on me and found me hiding my posting. That led to a discussion about what I was hiding and I eventually told him what you have said to me. That I'm not taking saving my marriage seriously, if I don't expose or instal a keylogger. He has now agreed for me to do both.

It would have been easier for me to expose earlier on without his agreement, when I was still very angry about the deception. But I've signed the marriage recovery contract and I've started to fall in love with him again. I don't want to start our new life together with a massive LB against his will and a deception.

I will mail out the expose email tonight and order a keylogger. Then I have done what you say has been missing, even though I'm doing it with his agreement and not in secret.

How is your UA time? Do either of you spend nights apart?

What EPS has he put in place?

Have all conditions that allowed his affair possible been eliminated?

What were the conditions that allowed the A to occur? Was it your computer? DR Harley has made recommendations for people to give up computers, smart phones etc. to R.

Eliminate ALL the conditions that made the A possible.

What makes you feel safe? Make a list and impliment them.

What was he getting outside of the relationship that he wasn't getting from you? Have you addressed these things?

Are you spending 15hrs/wk UA meeting each others most important EN's to restore and maintain romantic love?

MB is not a cafeteria plan for it to work. It is all or nothing if you want to have a great M.

Also, if you are not happy or confident of his answers concerning the A, many WS's have taken an lie detector test to prove their word.

Have you considered this for peace of mind?

Install the key logger. Hack his phone. Do everything you can to find intel. People lie...people who are cheating find even better ways to lie.

Frau, the keylogger has been rendered useless by telling him. You have forfeited that valuable tool. Your husband has been having an affair for 10 years and one of the biggest reasons is because he was allowed - BY YOU - to lead a secret second life. I predict that will not change from what I have seen here.

Obviously he is not going to continue to do anything wrong on that computer since he knows you are watching. Snooping, in order to be effective, has to be kept secret. Dr Harley DOES NOT recommend radical honesty about snooping when there has been an affair. And the reason is because you obviously cannot protect your marriage if your husband KNOWS you are snooping. Now it will be much harder to protect your marriage.

" I don't want to start our new life together with a massive LB against his will and a deception. "

You will not have a new life as long as you enable your husband to lead a secret second life. You have to hold him accountable and you are not doing that by telling him about a keylogger. You can't hold him accountable unless you keep an eye on him and do not reveal your snooping sources. It is a lovebuster to have an affair, it is not a lovebuster to CATCH your spouse having an affair. If you had been snooping him all these years his affair could have been killed 10 years ago.

Frau, you were misinformed. EAs are as damaging as PAs. Where did you get the idea that you shouldn't expose an EA? Certainly not here.
You understand that this should be of no comfort to you, correct? The fact that she never responded in kind means nothing. It's all about your husband's emotions. And there could be a tipping point, where she is at a place where he's starting to look good. Understand? Don't depend on the OW to keep your marriage safe! Are you worried about how the two of you will look to others, or are you interested in saving your marriage? I'm not seeing where you're interested in saving your marriage. Did your husband leave his wife for you? Please tell us how the two of you met - were either of you married/separated at the time? So. You want to be the dutiful, trusting wife of a man who has already shown you that he will be untrustworthy. How do you reconcile that? I would have a hard time wrapping my mind around that under any circumstances. I would feel like a naive fool. I don't even know how to respond to this. YOUR HUSBAND IS LUSTING AFTER ANOTHER WOMAN! ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SAY 'YES'! AND your WH has behaved in other unfaithful ways in other situations that do not involve her. His boundaries are poor.

I am sorry that you have flagged him about snooping tools to confirm the safety of yourself and your marriage. All I can suggest to you is what you have heard so far: no further contact with OW, and schedule a polygraph. Sadly, you have tipped your hand on your most valuable tool to keep your marriage safe after his EA: the keylogger. All I can suggest is that you reassure him that you have no intention of installing a keylogger. Heck, tell him that we're a bunch of nuts for even suggesting it. Do what it takes to make him think you have no plans to intall the keylogger. When he is convinced, INSTALL THE KEYLOGGER.

I suspect he'll take his contact with her to another method, via a hidden cell phone, etc, because you exposed your intention to snoop. Or he'll be sure to contact her only on his office email. You'll have to do some extra work to keep an eye on him. I would suggest a Voice Activated Recorder that you will hide in his car (WITHOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE!!!).