We had our second session with Jennifer on Sunday night. It was very helpful. She helped us map out our ENs and how to best present them to each other. I got some really good ideas. Our homework this week is to info gather from each other about those. We meet with her again this weekend to work on the next step. The phone coaching is pricey but so far I feel like it has been worth it.

BTW. Tonight's the night!

Tonight's the night!

I would say that if the phone coaching is working for the both of you, to investigate the online and/or home study course.



And... *ahem*...

It can be difficult to enjoy a fine meal when one is starving, but I fully encourage you to take your time and savor every bite. Make sure to express your satisfaction to the cook.

Well, it's been over a month since I posted here last. We have been doing the phone counseling with Dr. Jennifer every weekend. This past weekend, she decided to step back a bit and let us go it on our own for the next month. We are to send her weekly updates.

Things we are working on:

1. Getting our UA time in. Last week, it was only 12 hours. This week we have 8.5 so far and expect to have 15.5 by weeks end. I have been very strict about what I count as UA time. We were able to add an hour at the YMCA on Wednesdays and Saturdays. We have our standing date nights on Saturday. Fridays, we cook something together and send the kids to the neighbors. We have also been spending time together each night. Many nights, we play something called the UnGame.

2. Feedback. We are supposed to provide each other feedback each night on a different EN. The problem here has been that we don't have anything really new to add and I've been advised to table the SF issue for now, so I don't really have much to say most of the time. She did give me some surprising feedback this past week on AF. I have been adding many more hugs, kisses, etc. I've also started opening the car door for her and things like that when we go on our dates. The surprising feedback from her was that she was neutral about those things. She says they don't add or subtract from her $LB. She does like that I make coffee for her each morning, and she does like it when I go by the store for her on the way home. But so far, those are the only two specific things for AF that she has said are positive for her.

3. Lovebusters. Truly, since I have worked hard to eliminate DJs, AOs, and a couple of AH's I haven't had anything to work on. I believe I am just in maintenance mode on this one. So I review my list each morning to make sure I am reminded.

Don't let her feedback on affection discourage you. Continue along - it is making LB$ deposits, even if she thinks it is not.

We are usually more attuned to things that; make withdrawals, or that make MASSIVE deposits. UA time is supposed to make massive deposits. The other EN's are smaller deposits (think of them accruing like interest, rather than depositing a paycheck).

Hold steady!

At first I was discouraged, but I've since decided to just keep doing it. It can't hurt if it's at least a neutral.


Well, that's part of the problem here. She lists AF as number 3. But the things she gives me feedback on as AF items are not things you would do during UA time.

Ok just a bit more help needed here. This past week we got 15.5 hours of UA time in! I know that is not 20+ but it is the first time we have gotten over 15 (or 12 for that matter). The good news is that these hours are now standing for each week, so we should be able to get at least that much unless someone gets sick.

What we did NOT do this week was get into any feedback. I think we are stalled there. She has nothing to add as far as different things or added things I could be doing, and on my part, I am purposefully avoiding the SF issue for now. So I am kind of at a loss as to what to ask for either.

I'm thinking I need to add some action items to my list so that at least I can get some feedback on new things I am trying.

Oh and to add to that, I believe I have successfully eliminated any love busters that she has identified for me or ones that I thought might be a problem even though she hasn't complained. She says I have done a good job in this area as well.

Like what?

I have two items listed from her that make deposits.

1. Make her coffee in the morning.
2. Go to the store for her.

so...

I make coffee every morning and I offer to go to the store. In fact, she said something at lunch to day about not knowing what were were going to have for dinner, so I offered to go by the store on my way home and pick something up.

That is great

If you've eliminated the Lovebusters, and you keep having that UA, things are going to start getting a lot better.

I noticed on your wife's thread that you have scheduled SF for 3 days. Are these at the end of your UA?

We have at least two hours scheduled before SF on Tues and Thurs. We have 4 scheduled beforehand on Saturdays. Although she suggested that we could cut the Saturday down to 3 hours (since we were going to be spending SF time together to make up the fourth hour) and then it would be earlier in the evening. I did not agree with cutting the hour out but did suggest that we could simply start our date earlier in the evening.

Hey, I wanted to comment on the affection:

In a way, there are two kinds of affection. One type is concrete acts of care. The other type is symbolic acts of care. An example of a concrete act of care is washing the dishes; an example of a symbolic act of care is a hug, kiss, or card. Some acts might even straddle the boundary.

Dr. Harley actually defines affection as the symbolic acts of care, but in his article on this site about affection, he lists some concrete acts.

Dr. Harley says that if the care has been lacking in a marriage, the symbols of care won't mean much. So sometimes a wife won't be as open to love bank deposits from hugs, kisses, cards, flowers, etc., until a track record of the more concrete acts of care has been built up, as well as love bank units being regularly deposited through the other emotional needs (particularly, conversation).

Focus on the friends and enemies of good conversation and on scheduling your dates and using your dates as a chance to have lots of conversation. And focus on what other concrete acts of care you can provide: meeting any of the other non-intimate emotional needs, living life together and helping out wherever you can. She will eventually be open to affection once it is a symbol of the care she enjoys from you, and then that affection will deposit tremendous love bank units.

Well, I did write that in my notes. She likes me to do things that "I know she would have to do". So I have been doing things here and there like emptying/loading the dishwasher, watching the kids while she cooks, feeding the dog, and last night I even did some laundry because I couldn't sleep.

That's what I need is some more ideas outside of the DS realm, but not in the realm of symbolic acts.

FTF,

You need to read you own thread. Markos' Previous Advice

Ok I'm off to do some researching..thanks.

Keep those things up. They will add up and make her more open to symbolic forms of affection down the road.


One of the big things Markos did for me was paint a room with me. We picked out colors, and worked on it all evening together.
It was concrete affection to me, and wasn't domestic support. It was getting something done that I REALLY wanted done, but he kinda wiggled his way in there to be a part of it.

Another thing was to take me to a store and let me buy a new outfit, admiring everything I tried on. Again, affection, but not symbolic affection and not domestic support.

What are some things she would like to get done that doesn't include chores? Is there something she'd like to redecorate? A new piece of furniture she'd like to find? Think along those lines.

Notice how all of the above was very recreational for me. At least, I thought so. I enjoyed the painting, and the shopping was fun because it became a pretense for great conversation.

We didn't get to count the painting as UA time, because it wasn't undivided attention (kids were around). But it still made great love bank deposits for both of us and paved the way for even better things.

We're now looking around for something else to paint...

Body Painting

Just an idea...