Hi folks, this is my first post on the forums though I�ve been reading here for � gosh a really, really long time. I have followed so many of your threads I feel like I know some of you already�Melody the straight shooter from Texas, Pepperband, Mr. Wondering, Marcos and Prisa and so many more I can�t list them all. I�ve been listening to the radio show every day for, I�d say the last month or so. There really is a lot on there that goes above and beyond the books, lots of little and not so little, nuggets of wisdom.

Some quick background on my situation, married 20 years (first and only marriage for us both) we�re both 43 (hubby is just a couple of months older than me) and we�re parents to three girls we homeschool ages 18 (just turned), 16 (17 in June) and 13 (14 in July). There is no infidelity on either his side or mine, emotional or otherwise. He�s an artist that works at a VA hospital on their network team for a living but definitely an artist. I�m a SAHM trying to get a writing career off the ground.

Hub and I have a history of conflict avoidance, difficulty with communication, and sacrifice on both sides, unenthusiastic agreements � the usual stuff that shreds a marriage over the course of years. I�ve tried several times to implement the marriage builders program into our relationship with limited success, which has caused me to withdrawal more and more (and of course love bust) when my hubby wouldn�t � as I thought at the time � get with the program.

I�m the problem. Oh, I�m not saying he�s perfect or anything, but yes I do believe I�m the key to the survival or death of this marriage, and it was a recent radio show that really clicked it home for me. He�s withdrawn because I haven�t made it safe for him to speak or have a differing opinion than mine. I don�t have angry outbursts but I�m the queen of the snide comment. I don�t quite have the guts to say �Hey, this or that bothers me� so I tend to make some sort of sideways comment that gets the point across but has rendered my poor husband nearly mute when it comes to any kind of meaningful discussion with me.

I think I finally get it, took me long enough, but I�m not foolish enough to think that I won�t slip back into old habits without some sort of accountability and that�s why I�m here. I would dearly love to do the online program, but I don�t believe at this point I can convince my husband. I�ve pushed marriage builders so hard for so long (and continued to behave in a way that has hurt more than help) that he believes (or so he has told me) that Dr. Harley is all for the women and not the men. So for now, at least, I�m looking at my side of the street and hopefully can pick up enough of the garbage I�ve strewn around to eventually help him see he can benefit from the program.

I�m letting him know about this post, inviting him to read my thread and/or start his own. I anticipate some 2X4�s in the course of my time here, and will do my best to keep an open mind and remember that the stuff you hate to hear is usually the stuff you need to hear the most.

Welcome to MB.

So what are you doing to clean up your side of the street?

Oh boy, won't he be in a surprise when he really understands Marriage Builders!? Dr Harley actually says he wrote MB for MEN. Most marriage programs are written to women and contain a lot of meaningless fluff. MB is completely different in that it is based on a step by step action plan resulting in the happiness of MEN and WOMEN. Dr Harley teaches women how to meet her husband's emotional needs and vice versa. He does not advocate the practice of sacrifice.

Your husband stands to benefit greatly from this program and he just doesn't realize it. The way I helped my husband understand and embrace MB is by taking his greatest complaint in our marriage and showing him how MB would resolve that problem.

What if you asked him to take the Marital Problem analysis questionnaire and started from there? You could find out his greatest complaint and show him how MB would resolve it. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4506_mpa.html

Do you have any of the MB books at home?

I have seen you lurking for years and am so happy you finally posted!! Welcome my friend!

Yep! Check this out:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

Brain, I've taken a good hard look at myself and his complaints- unfortunately I'm one of those people who, while not necessarily always "needing" to be right, thinks that they are most of the time @@. Not very fun to talk to someone who doesn't take your side of view into account.

Step by step? Here goes.

No more snide comments from the peanut gallery

No more disrespectful judgments about anything, he has the right to enjoy what he enjoys because he enjoys it. Ive been guilty of eye rolling at his topics of interest more than once.

No more jokes at his expense..I may think Im "teasing" but its not funny.

Really listening when he talks instead of blowing it off as something Im not interested in. I might just learn something, he's awfully intelligent.

Eliminate the words "you should" from my vocabulary

He's an artist - period. I havent given him the credit he deserves in this arena. No matter what he does for a living he's an artist at heart.

Getting on a nicotine patch immediately to help me quit smoking. I toyed briefly with the idea of e-ciggs but it really was just an excuse to avoid quitting.

And last but not least giving him the chance to add to the list of things he would like to see changed that I may not be aware of.

Yep. MB is all about how a man can get sex through UA time
(that's a quote from my dear, dear husband).

Melody, he is aware of the fact Dr. Harley has written these for men, and hub does have an engieneer type way of thinking much like Dr. Harley. I don't think he believes (that it it was written for men) because of the way "I" have handled it. I imagine it's left a bad taste in his mouth.

Yes we have quite a few of the books.. HNRN, FILSIL, Marriage insurance, BR&F, the work book that goes with HNRN and lovebusters.. I think thats all. I have read them, hub has read some of them.

Will he agree to go out on 4 dates a week, meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs -- intimate conversation (no relationship talk or complaints), recreational companionship, affection, and having the date always end in sex?

Markos is an engineer, too, and loves this program because of the way it is designed. This program is definitely the thing for your husband, and he may see that if it is presented to him in a way that shows how it is beneficial for him.

Prisca, I honestly don't know. We are both so withdrawn at the moment I think he's going to have to see some changes from me before he will be willing. We do go out (though not nearly the 15 + hours we need and did last summer)but with very little conversation or affection and no sex.

Lol yes, I have been around for quite awhile. It's good to finally "meet" everyone.

Doesn't hurt to ask Especially if you show him that he will be getting sex on a regular basis.

Yes, you do need to change how you've been treating him. I would start with an apology and a promise that you are never going to DJ him again. And a request that if you do, to please let you know so that you can stop it. I would also ask him to fill out the form that Mel posted, with a promise that you will work on those things that are bothering him. If he doesn't fill it out, there's still work you can do, though.

You think or you know? Have you asked him? To assume you know what he'd say is disrespectful.

The same will hold true if we were to ask if he'd be willing to do MB counseling.

Respectful radical honesty will be instrumental in the improvement of your M.



It is great that you�ve found introspection and are now aware of a big piece of the marital difficulties. However what would work best is if your H is your accountability partner. There is no one more qualified nor available to inform you that you are hurting him and the M. Radical Honesty.

To what extent have you and him actually worked through the principles of PORH and POJA? Have you done any of the exercises together?

As I see it you have two options in order for you to make progress.
1) If you nail your changes 100% and have no slip ups
2) You two agree it is a work in progress but one that will be conducted as a team. With PORH and POJA. Learn how to successfully communicate and negotiate to help each other clean up your sides of the street.

If he isn�t going to participate what is going to happen to you two? Are you two discussing a D?

My suggestion. Call Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers for a few sessions. Have one of them sell your H on this program and what it will do for him.

The policies of this program are so logical. If you work it together your situation looks very curable. If you do this, this will happen. If you do that, that will happen. You lovebust. He provides radically honesty. You apologize and the two of you brainstorm an alternative. Meanwhile you keep working to eliminate your snideness.

My advice to him. Learn how to say �Ouch�. That�ll be your sign you messed up and give you the opportunity to be aware and shift gears, apologize, set a gameplan so it doesn�t happen again.

My advice to you� before you say anything. Ask yourself �Is that something I�d appreciate if he were to say it to me?�. Respectful radical honesty is your friend. Passive aggressive snide comments are the enemy.

Prisca, he's always gotten sex on a regular basis from me but as of the last six months or so he hasn't been interested in the least. I'm typically the one complaining about the lack. I'm positive there is no affair, he's transparent with his phone, computer, car, etc...he has no activities that take him away in the evenings or over night. He works in a office of men and everyone there is so crazy busy he usually doesnt take his breaks and works while hes having lunch.

That sounds like a guy that doesn't want to have his needs met by you. His bank has so many holes in it the thought of intimacy isn't appealing. BTDT only my holes came from a lack of having that need met.

Well, He's said in the past he doesn't want to do the program any longer. I hoping changes from me will encourage him to want to do the program with me.

Yes, I agree it would be best if he would be my accountability partner. That's a lot of the trouble though, he has a hard time speaking up because he doesnt feel like hes being heard (yes, he has said that..not assuming).

How far did we get...we spent about two months doing the 15 hours, scheduling it and going out (at the time with very limited funds). We read HNHR and we did the emotional needs questionaire. We never got to the lovebuster questionaire we had a few half hearted attempts at POJA.

What happens is that I do things (like the jokes and such) that bother him. He doesn't say anything about it, so my behavior doesn't change. He continues to be upset by things until we end up (about every 6 months or so) in a huge blow up. He withdrawls, I withdrawl...but we behave as if its business as usual around the house. Rinse. Repeat.

OR he does things that bother me, I make my snide comments, he doesnt address them, I dont address them. It builds up until theres the big blow up.

Are we talking divorce? No and yes. It's been brought up maybe twice in our entire marriage - both times by me, as in "If this doesnt get fixed I can guarentee we'll be divorced when the kids are grown"

What I'm hoping to do here is clean things up enough to show him I understand my part in this and Im willing..and not expecting him to make all of the changes..eliminate those lovebusters and get his account back in the black. I would love for him to speak to Dr. Harley and have encouraged him to email the radio show but with no results so far.

I'm making plans to lay this all out to him tomorrow night at dinner, he is as of this moment unaware.

Yes, I totally agree.

Then I'll tell you what everyone here had to tell me ... after 9 or so years of trying.

You have not implemented MB. It isn't a program you can do piecemeal. You have to implement the whole thing especially the critical pieces ... POJA being one the MOST important. Especially when there are lovebusters as the impedance of your marital improvement.

You skipped the part that would have been most helpful to your M.

I am very skeptical that you alone removing your LBs will cure this marriage. I�m also not sure he�ll want to fully employ the program if you do improve (eliminate all LBs). Why bother then? There is far more wrong with your M then just your LBs. Communication, PORH seem to be big gaping holes as well. I suggest you try to get him on board while things are in this low point.

Mutual withdrawal is what got my W on board with the phone counseling. Please consider this.

I think you need to focus your energy here.
Disrespect and Demands will kill any effort you make to meet his needs.