"I am not enthusiastic about you having a relationship with SD21 and GS2 that does not include me."

So is this going to be his answer as to why? I would venture to say that I don't think I would feel this way for ever. I don't always have to be with him when my love bank has a balance but right now it is needed.

Also, he is now home and I have been as pleasent as can be as his second LB is selfish demands which he says is not so much my words but my actions. Like I am in the dumps when I don't get my way. Which from my point of view, I'm hurt but it how I carry that hurt effects him in a negative way so I will steer away from it.

So I was very bubbly and kind. He is very distant and in a bad mood, yet he wanted to go with me to the ball diamonds. He changed the subject when I asked him what was wrong which is what he complains of me doing when I am hurt. I have not stated the above yet. I have only shared with him that since he was not in enthusiastic agreement i would not attend and that i was hurt.

How in the world could I have done something to hurt him? Just for the fact that I am hurt? I don't think I did any SDs or DJs. All that I have done is what has been told to you here. Do you see why he is hurt?

Should I give him time to work though his feelings? At this point, I feel he is the one creating the stress in our evening.

I of course do not like to see him hurting. It hurts me too. Have you seen anything I have said that would hurt him? I'm second guessing myself here. Stupid head!

I apologize if I made it sound like he should be able to go by himself. I was just saying that I thought you did well in being clear and calm. He needs to hear that you are not in agreement with him going without you (tomorrow, right?) before it happens. Did he tell you on this one why he didn't want you with him, or is this the same thing the email exchange was about? I don't know how risky this is, but if you can't negotiate a way for you two to be together tomorrow, then go with him and call it recreational companionship.

If that is how you feel now, then that is your answer. That's what I gathered from your list of complaints that you posted.

Interesting show for you to listen to:
October 05, 2011

I didn�t take it that way. Ultimately I don�t have control over his actions. What you state is exactly correct. I do feel he thinks I can easily relieve his stress and anxiety by not going or if I would do what I could to make her like me. That would be much easier to do if I hadn't gotten my emotions wrapped up in caring about her or GS2.

He blames his ex on many things. SD21 blames others. I guess I shouldn't expect otherwise about me. H has said in the past that SD21 is the common denominator.

I talked to a friend today who introduced us 5 years ago who knew his ex when they were married. She was not surprised at what is going on. She was hoping for different. I asked her if his ex is really as crazy as everyone makes her out to be. She told me that she was only like that in the end. 18 years of this kind of behavior seems like it would do that to a person.


It is how I feel now. Everyone has been spot on with what's going on. Thanks for the link. I will listen to it.

H just told me he was not in a place tonight to talk about the rest of our ENs and the shopping homework.

I am fine with that but want to run away from being in this enviornment.

Just wanted to give you a virtual

When's your next session with Steve? Soon, I hope.

Thanks. I needed one. It isn't scheduled yet. I asked about tomorrow and H said he had plans. Its going to be a crappy weekend.

I hurt so bad on top of the pain from earlier. He won't even touch me in bed. What is wrong with me? Am I that horrible of a person? I'm downstairs on the couch bawling my eyes out.

I don't think you can emotionally take much more of this, hon.
Please, for your health, reconsider a separation. It doesn't necessarily mean it's the end of your marriage.

When to Call it Quits, Part 1

When to Call it Quits, Part 2

I was just skimming back over your thread and am I correct that you had already completed 4 sessions with SH before the beginning of May?

I agree with Prisca: finish your preparations for a separation. At least you'll have some time to think about solidifying your plan while he's gone. I think it's an important thing that he put off any negotiation efforts about the plans for today and this weekend until after the time has passed.



I am sorry you felt so bad last night. I sympathize with how you feel and want to let you know that you are not defective, horrible, nor have anything wrong with you.

Thanks for the hug Prisca.

I'm not sure. I know there was one on 4/8. I think we have had a total of 8 calls thus far.

I didn't send him the message about my lack of agreement for today. I did send an email to Steve and left a message with him that I need a quick talk to get some direction for this weekend. If he says I should separate than I will. Not that everyones opinion on here isn't good, Steve has personally talked to DH and can see both sides where you are only getting my side of the story.


Thanks! I already suffer from depression so medication helps stop the spiral thoughts most of the time. Times like this it is harder to deal with.

So, how have you been doing? How did everything go?

Thanks for checking. I talked to Steve beiefly Friday. He suggested I not put DH in a position to have to choose between his daughter and myself. He never suggested a seperation. He continues to talk about 'coordinating our efforts'.

DH was again very much in a grumpy mood Friday night. DD12 had a sleepover and they wanted to go to the park. DH came home and I asked him if he wanted to go. He said if you want me to. I asked if he wanted to go and he said i don't care. I told him that I was leaving if he wanted to go. He came.

He spent the day with SD21 and had forgotten to get his credit card back from her when she used to pick up lunch earlier in the day. So while I was at the park he wanted to take the car to meet her to get it.

He was in a really crappy mood. I decided to ask him what was going on and he, with anger, told me that this is not going to work. That we will always have conflict. That I will always have a problem with SD21. That I don't discipline my kids when they need it.

I decided at that moment. I'm done caring if he loves me. The hurt I expierence from knowing he is responsible for creating an environment where I feel loved and he is doing little to create that. Sure he has restrained himself from yelling at me. Steve likes to hang on to that as progress.

I slept on the couch where the kids were having the sleepover. Yesterday I avoided him and told him he should go see his grandson or do something that makes him happy. I had a great evening with my family. When I came home, he was gone. I don't know where he was and he didn't get home till 10:30. I was already laying on the couch (where I slept)reading a book on kindle. He said nothing.

I refuse to sleep with a man that is giving me the cold shoulder, blames me for our problems but doesn't see that it is our problem for not resolving conflicts by completing the POJA. We only get to brainstorming and never get to a point where we agree. It seems impossible to come up with a win-win.

I am looking into finding a second job. Should I need to be on my own, I want to make sure I can put food on the table without stress. In the past he has said that if he leaves he is not coming back so I expect a seperation to be a divorce.

Right now, if worse comes to shove, I could make it work. It is the summer and the kids are out of school. This month, my kids are with me. Next month they will be with their dad. I can stay with a friend in July who could use my help anyway for a surgery she is having and my parents said we can stay with them this month if needed.

I have started writing my plan as per a homework assignment from Steve.
Emotional Needs
Admiration �
� Ensure I ask his opinion. How would you feel if? Understand his perspective and take his perspective into account.
� Back him up when he gives orders to DD12 and DD13. �What did DH tell you to do?� Say it in front of him.
� Follow through on selling items.
� Make a huge deal out of when he does something for me. Thanks I appreciate that. Thank you for taking the time to�.
� Stand up for myself
� Stern with the girls
Honesty & Openness �
� Open up dialog � Tell him about my day even if he doesn�t understand.
� Share positive and negative emotional reactions to significant aspects of life. Even if I think he won�t like it.
� Check to see if anything is going on before making concrete plans.
� Explain reasons rather than just saying I don�t want to talk about it.
Domestic Support �
� Concentrated effort to get rid of clutter.
� Pick up after myself
� Finish projects I start (change oil, clean up; paint and finish the job;
� Insist the girls clean up after themselves
Family Commitment �
� Step up parenting
Affection �
� Come down to see him when he comes home from work and be excited about the fact he is home
� Ask about his day
� Text that I am thinking about him/ email that I think about him
� When he is upset caused by the actions of ***EDIT***, show that I am concerned.
� Honest acknowledgement. I bet that hurt. Backing him up.

I have no more love for this man. I will continue to seek his input on things, meet ENs and eliminate LBs without sacrificing my own feelings in the process.

I will not yell at my kids to apease him. I will not punish them to apease him. I will continue to work on my own plan for discipline as I feel his stance is too harsh, degrading and controlling and he thinks I'm not hard enough. I want my kids to follow directions. I want my kids to complete assignments. The way I get there is the problem between us. DH was raised with an iron fist and it is black and white.

What I can use the forums help on is a current situation. DD12 struggles with keeping her mouth shut while eating. I don't feel it is really too bad but she does need improvement. DH loathes this habit. DH watches her with daggers to mess up. She sees this and feels he watches her for mistakes. She is tearful talking about how she feels like he watches her for mistakes (including times other than meal times)I think she has gotten better at meal time. There are times when she relaxes and starts doing it without notice. I politely remind her to refocus and keep her mouth shut. DH is angered because she was told to do something and she continually disobeys.

DH thinks we should provide her with consequences like making her sit at another table alone. I think that is demeaning. For the past two days I have avoided eating as a family with DH. I have enjoyed meals with my daughters in a stress free eating environment. How do I handle this week? I don't want to have meals with him and my kids due to this stress. He blames me that I don't hold her feet to the fire so by avoiding dinner with him I am not in a place where I need to hold her feet to the fire. It feels like a loose-loose situation for me. If we have dinner as a family there is tension, if we avoid meals he is angry I am avoiding his solution. Please provide your insight.

I have to say that habit irritates me to no end, too, and I am working diligently to eliminate it in my own children.

That said, your husband has no business "watching her with daggers" and making her fear him. He has no business becoming angry -- with her for messing up, nor with you for not wanting to handle it his way. He is not negotiating. He is making a demand (follow his solution of having her eat at another table), and disrespecting you (blaming you).

I would refuse to have dinner with him as a family until he was willing to have a respectful negotiation (and that means you have a say, too).

We have discussed ideas (brainstorming) and I am not in agreement with his ideas. I am really at a loss as to how to handle it where it will satisfy him. I do bring it up to her and try to redirect the behavior. He feels she is disobeying. What other ways are there that my blinders are preventing me to brainstorm that would apease him???

The problem is, you haven't really entered the brainstorming stage because your husband is being demanding, disrespectful and angry. You cannot brainstorm while there are lovebusters. You are on Step 1. Brainstorming is on Step 3.

Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation:
1. Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.
2. Identify the problem from both perspectives.
3. Brainstorm with abandon.
4. Choose the solution that meets the conditions of the Policy of Joint Agreement -- mutual and enthusiastic agreement.

I hate the chewing with your mouth open also. My son has a bad habit of it. I try and catch him every time he does it and say "Son, chew with your mouth closed please." He does get frustrated because I can sound like a broken record. He's gotten much better because we kept on him. Now there's no way I'd punish him. But when he got exasperated one time, I told him then to quit chewing with his mouth shut if he didn't like the result of chewing with his mouth shut.

Typically it was because he was taking too big of bites or taking bites before swallowing what he already had in his mouth. Since he's slowed down his eating, this has helped a lot.

It is very rare when I have the urge to have an AO, but this is one of them!

So around 1:30AM I am awaken by DD12 throwing up on the living room floor where I am at downstairs as I was sleeping on the couch. When I got her back into her bed she cried saying she knocked on my bedroom door, DH said come in and she told him her stomach hurt. DH told her I was downstairs on the couch. DD12 said '[DH] didn't even try to help me'

Please advise as I want to storm into our room and tell him what an inconsiderate [censored] he is on so many levels!!!! (I'm glad there is a filter on this forum!)

This is where we end up. At an impasse. He is not demanding, disrespectful and angry during targeted discussions. He becomes that way when no headway is being done. I rarely have gotten an apology from 'the mines'. I seem to be the only one that apologies frequently. I make tons of mistakes I am fine with being called out on SDs and DJs. I know I sometimes can have blinders on that prevent me from doing what I should. It is not acceptable and I need to be made aware of it. We have so many unfinished negotiations they pile up, become overwhelming and never get resolved so more rensentment builds for him. I can try to revisit them but what do I do if I don't have any ideas that are a win-win???? Stale mates do not get us anywhere but where we are right now!

Seems reasonable. I know I sound like a broken record too. I know she doesn't like me telling her over and over again but at least she knows I love her in the process. I can't say his stance is rigid, unreasonable, unloving as those are DJs but when can you call a duck a duck?

BTW.... I'm still fuming mad(see my previous posting)!!!! GRRRRRR!!!!!