Exactly.

I support the MARRIAGE, zibbles. If you go back and read her thread, you will note that I was one of the HARDEST ones on her case.

What does Dr. Harley tell a wife to do in response to her husband's AOs? It's not "self reflection" or "develop compassion."

The way that is repaired is through Just Compensation.

***EDIT***

remember that while the affair was fun and intoxicating for you, your BH gets NONE of the pleasure and all of the fallout from the affair.

some of the posters on your threads are AO experts so listen up. it's really tough to get a feeling for what's really happening but i imagine you're looking more disinterested in healing this than you realize.

Hey, helpfordad Been awhile since you've been around. How would you feel about posting on your thread and telling us how eliminating your AOs is coming along, and if you've signed up for the online program yet?

*************************************EDIT************************************

First off, could you not shout in response to my wife? As you know, I traumatized her for years through shouting and angry outbursts. So even an internet shout is pretty inappropriate.

Second of all, we know what Dr. Harley would say in this situation, because he said it to Prisca:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2495337#Post2495337



Notice how the good doctor redirected immediately to the real problem. There was NOTHING Prisca could do if my angry outbursts were tolerated. And the same is true, here.

There is no need to get all psychobabbly about his feelings of whether he values just compensation or doubts her sincerity or whatever. He needs to sit down in a room by himself and ask if he really wants his marriage or not. If he does, then he needs to get with the program. Given that he assaulted her last week, he is going to need to learn to keep his temper or she should not live with him. She certainly shouldn't try to prove her sincerity in the face of angry outbursts! That'd be about the same as trying to meet the emotional needs of a falling down drunk. He'd be a black hole she could never please.

If he decides he doesn't want his marriage, we'd certainly support him in that. That is his right. There may have been more damage done here than can be overcome. But that is his decision to make.

NG That is spot on.

As to his AO.

***EDIT***

Moderator's note: Please use Marriage Builders principles to advise this poster.

It will not and should not be repaired because it was TOO much trust that led to the problem in the first place. The solution to that is to NOT TRUST by eliminating the conditions that allowed her to have an affair.

However, even that is a non starter if he won't get his angry outbursts under control. This is all hopeless unless he gets himself under control. Like DR HARLEY has stated, the FIRST thing that has to be resolved are angry outbursts when present. He is not safe otherwise.

Mrscen, from what your husband described in his thread this morning, YOU were the one who had an angry outburst when you marched in and demanded to hear his questions right now. Are you kidding me? While he is not entitled to have AOs, neither are you. You are not in any position to demand anything.

Everything we have written to him about AOs applies to you too. If you have not given him a timeline of the full facts, I would get this written out. Let him read it alone and WRITE out any remaining questions. Don't discuss it in person.

Get this done on HIS timetable, not yours. (As LNG as it is done soon)

Of course he doesn't trust her, NG. Who disputes that? And he shouldn't.
Recovery doesn't require trust on his part.
It requires Just Compensation on her part, which she is well on her way to providing -- NC letter sent, Facebook shutdown, transparency established, EPs written, a willingness to enter into a program of recovery to create a romantic relationship.

YES.

No tolerance for angry outbursts, if you want to be happy in life, and in marriage.

No tolerance: don't tolerate them from yourself, or from your spouse.

Yes, I am trying to catch up but I am just seeing major lovebustering all over the place on both sides. Wow.

mrs_cen, there is a very important Marriage Builders rule that needs to be followed:

If your spouse breaks the rules, don't break the rules in response.

For example, if your spouse has an angry outburst, don't have an angry outburst in response.

Or, if your spouse needs to do something, don't resort to love busters about it. For example, we stayed on you hard here about getting that no contact letter written and sent. But hopefully your husband wasn't there having angry outbursts at you about it, and if so, I hope you know now that you should not put up with it.

In the same way, he should not put with angry outbursts from you, either.

You guys have got to stop fighting, or it is going to be the end of your marriage.

Suggestion: if you are having trouble with your husband about something, post here first and get some pointers how to talk about it to make sure that whatever you do is not something that is done in a disrespect, demanding, or angry way!

mrs_cen, I read that you threatened to call the cops on RNR.

Don't threaten. Just call.

BUT

call if he ever touches you again.

If he's not touching you, just leave. Go to the mall. Go shopping (or window shopping). Go take a drive.

Just get out for awhile and let him learn that he has to be respectful if he wants to talk to you.

ALSO, it gives you a chance to keep yourself calm.

I want to speak to this. First off, by taking a no tolerance position on angry outbursts, we ARE helping both mrs_cen and RNR. They both had an angry outburst. This has got to stop, or there will not be a marriage to save.

So now not only do we have a marriage with a betrayed spouse victim, we have a marriage where both husband and wife are victims of each other's abuse. There's only one clear standard here: abuse is not to be tolerated in marriage, for any reason. Nobody gets the right to become demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

Why did you threaten to call the cops, mrs.cen?

************************EDIT************************

I had told BS, that he needed to leave the house - we had been arguing again. BS, said no, he was not going to leave the house, I threatened to call them and have him charged - he decided to call them himself - which he did, then tried to "cancel" the call (which you can not do) so they came. They asked if I DID want him arrested and charged, I declined.

There seems to be so many thoughts, opinions, speculations even, that I have NO idea what we (RNR and I) need to do next.

Thus far, I've concluded that he needs to get his AO's under control, that I need to get mine (AO) under control, that fighting will get us no where, that actions (on both sides) speak louder than words. I (we) have read the first suggest book SAA, that we need to get the next suggested book "Love Busters" but where do we start? What's next?