If the BS is dwelling on mistakes of the past, then no, he is not doing the MB plan. And he will fail. It fails because the plan was NOT followed.

Is this it?

NG, I think you're correct in who should be driving the recovery bus...

I was a terrible driver and I only divulge this stuff to help others.

There was no exposure for a very long time. BS's man or woman, expose the affair to your church, family, kids and friends etc. You will need the support that you'll receive. Exposure is meant to kill an affair but don't under estimate the benefit of "support" Drive the bus...

OM made contact through FB. FB never went away; now my ex wife offered to shut it down but I said it was ok as I wanted her to "want" to shut it down and the. I resented that it stayed up. Not her fault at all folks, I should have been the bus driver. BS's drive the darn bus!

My ex wife offered to take a poly, I said that it wasn't necessary and at the time that's how I really felt. As time passed I wondered if I had fallen for a bluff, she probably would have still taken it if I had asked but I didn't. BS's do the poly. For the truth but also to quell doubts that may arise later...drive the bus.

And by all means both genders but especially BH's, from jump street get the book Surviving An Affair. At the beginning of recovery we got His Needs Her Needs and Lovebusters along with the workbooks. These aforementioned books have excerpts from SAA in them and Dr Harley speaks of it often on the radio show but you REALLY need to get SAA and read it FIRST! I was an absolute head case and had already derailed the recovery when I finally ordered SAA. This book first and then the others....there's a great thread being started in this sub forum where they're going to be covering SAA chapter by chapter.

Listen to the great advice and listen to the radio show and drive the bus guys!

So you are saying that the MB program (if strictly followed) has a 100% chance of recovering a M after an A?

Let me put it this way: in 100% of the cases that I personally know, where people have said they followed the program and it did not work, a little investigation reveals some ways in which they have not followed the program.

It's never too late to take a polygraph. I will even today take a polygraph to answer any lingering questions you may have as to the A, as to whether I had any contact afterwards, as to whether I had an affair camel in the tent of my mind, as to whether I thought about or pined for OM while we were working the recovery, and as to what other question of yours I may not have heard yet.

I would be happy to do what I reasonably can, including paying for up to 2 question sessions in order to put your and NG's minds at rest as to whether I continued in waywardness or whether I continued in repentance and good will.

You have 6 months to take or leave my offer.

Sincerely,
LTL

I wasn't posting anything as a dig at you, I was trying to relay to folks in the beginning of recovery to take the proper steps and for the guys to take the reigns.

I'll take a poly as well and I'll answer to the question of whether or not I told you that you were "no good in bed" because I know I said the exact opposite. Dr Harley was convinced I had denigrated you by saying exactly that and so much dialogue was centered on something I never said or even believed, but Dr Harley obviously thought I was lying and that was a huge distraction ...it was something that should have been a non issue...

I didn't take it as a dig, just willing to quell your later, lingering doubts if you felt it would help you now and in your future.

I can see how 100% of people can find the program helpful and solve their marital problems. We have experienced this.

However, I think there is a distinction between this concept and overcoming an A. I have felt for a long time that MB helped us solve all of our marital problems. The question is really, does R from an A fall into the category of 'marital problems' (obviously is does) but it could have a category all of its own? What I mean is eliminating LB's, the meeting of EN's, using POJA and PORH etc..have helped us solve the traditional challenges we had in our prior M.

Specifically, to a certain degree, I see the solving of our marital problems as a separate issue then dealing with the fallout of the A. Notwithstanding the A, our M has never been better....if we had only found MB before this nightmare started, I can't help to wonder how great our life might be right now.


The problem now isn't 'solving our traditional marriage problems'..it is working through the devastation of the A.

That is fair. So what you are saying is that 100% of the cases that you KNOW they have followed the program they have fully Recovered?

We are all human. None of us are perfect. To think that anyone would have the ability to do anything perfectly (including the MB program) is a position that is very na�ve.

It is humanly impossible.

"I didn't take it as a dig, just willing to quell your later, lingering doubts if you felt it would help you now and in your future."

I'm fine and you've been through enough. Thank you for the offer...

"We are all human. None of us are perfect. To think that anyone would have the ability to do anything perfectly (including the MB program) is a position that is very na�ve."

Steve called working the program perfectly and still failing "tier 2"

That is what I used to say about eliminating angry outbursts. It is humanly impossible to be perfect. Nobody is perfect.

And then Prisca told me that I couldn't come home after my last AO without agreeing that if I had another one, I would have to leave the house for four months and tell the extended family what had happened.

Wow! All of a sudden, I was ready to ELIMINATE angry outbursts in a hurry! There are a lot of jobs I can do with less than perfect quality, but this one demands the utmost attention!

Specifically regarding affairs, Dr. Harley has said that in cases where people say they have worked the program and not recovered, when he gets into the details, he discovers where they have not done what he prescribes.

I posted on your original thread just in case you'd prefer that.

To use 100% is false. I have seen marriages not recover on MB.

To say have the best chance of recovering is accurate.

If one must have 100% success rate to try MB then do not do MB. Increasing ones odds for success is not to be confused with if I do MB I will save my marriage.

There are no guarantees.

Putting sn expiration date on an offer is not much of an offer. Sounds as if plying the odds. BH has not asked after all this time. Most likely he will not get up the courage ask before the offer expires.

Then I can say sorry you are to late.

See, there is where this discussion really takes root.

The question of 'why' they did not follow the program. What are the extenuating circumstances that lead the couples astray?

Memory Management challenges?
The level of hurt of the betrayal to extreme to mentally overcome?
False recovery in which attempting R becomes much more difficult?
A LTA like MSS situation in which the level of destructiveness was SO massive?

The point is, MB does give the best possible CHANCE for R but there are no guarantees.

I completely disagree. They are divorced. He wasn't even talking to her or asking for more time on this thread. She graciously offered to take any test he wanted and gave him a 6 month window to ask for it. It's not like she said 6 minute or 60 minutes....which could arguably be too short of a time period.

I read that line limiting the time period as a good example of a boundary. She is willing to make amends and put things right to the extent she can on her side of the street while maintaining her personhood and realizing that it would be unhealthy and unwise for her to subject herself to his whim and fancy (and indecisiveness) indefinitely.

If she didn't close the time period, I could imagine a scenario where 3 years from now...when she's moved on and maybe in a new relationship herself that he'll come knocking around asking for the polygraph not a means to get to any truth but merely as a way to POSSIBLY interfere in her life and new relationship. I'm not saying he's gonna do that...but stating a time frame is good form. He can get off the pot and ask for it (if he truly needs it) or forever hold his peace (and shut up about it).

In conclusion, I think it was great of her to offer. She offered him the opportunity years ago and he also had every opportunity to depose her during the divorce process. I've never seen or heard of any ex-spouse doing this after a divorce IRL or on MB. If anything, I think limiting the offer for 6 months was too long but limiting it is/was certainly good form.

Mr. W

p.s. - IMO, she's telling the truth. I certainly have seen and understand how a lying WS would agree to take a polygraph hoping or knowing their spouse won't actually follow through but an ex-spouse offering to take one when she absolutely doesn't have to...the offer alone says a lot to me. Unrepentant divorced waywards BASH MB and it's notions of taking polygraphs at all. The thought of submitting to a polygraph would offend them to the core. I could predict were she unrepentant her taking this opportunity to take the victim role and say "we are divorced, I already offered a shot at taking a polygraph and you refused so I find it offensive and unfair for you to bring it up here again at MB. In fact, here's a couple quotes from MB's most famous unrepentant abusive wayward wife, seekingbalance (who isn't even divorced...yet) on the subject of polygraphs:



Here's a second SeekingBalance quote on the same subject of polygraphs demonstrating just how much the typical unrepentant wayward spouses hate them: