Funny way of "differing" with me....you disagree and then come all the way around to my position that distancing yourself (which is the only way to "move on") will actually end up being "BEST for my girls".

I hope you can understand that I'm on your side and not hammering you at all when I repeat myself. But when you say this:


...you ARE modeling to your children that sometimes others are more important than YOU. This is TRUE when it comes God and a spouse...but that's it. An ex-spouse IS not more important than you. Your children are not more important than you. YOU MATTER. Suppose your daughter is one day married to a physically abusive spouse (or even dating a physically abusive boyfriend) will she be able to stand up for HERSELF and say "I matter and I don't have to put up with this" or will she say "I need to put my kids first and get along". You are also modeling "pretending" which is just another form of lying.

You've been sold a lie. That co-parenting and getting along is the priority and best for the kids. It's not true...what's best for EVERYBODY is what's best for the kids. Sure...some may HAVE to get along. Often divorced men are inappropriately forced to play the shared-custody-get along-for-the-kids game by the courts. But if it's not working for YOU...then the parallel parenting guidelines for high conflict custody cases is the much better option. Just google parallel parenting and your jurisdiction to see what information there is locally for implementing such. Parallel parenting will allow you to implement Plan B much easier.

All that said...I predict you are going to have a tough time really doing Plan B. It sounds like your family has done a great job at pretending and have stayed really enmeshed. It's gonna be really hard for you to initially deal with the disappointment of your children when you tell them you aren't going to fake it anymore and THEN have to deal with the withdrawal from the hurtful relationship you are maintaining with your ex. (withdrawal works both ways) Like you said...it's a paradox. It's a trap and it's gonna take a lot of will power to erect AND maintain appropriate boundaries. You may have the wish ...but the courage will come in the follow through. Please study up and take your time figuring this out before you jump in and pull the rip cord prior to really be ready. It's gonna suck for awhile before you figure out we were right all along.

Here is link to one of my favorite MB discussions regarding the often difficult to define term "boundaries" in contrast with manipulation and control.

BOUNDARIES VS. MANIPULATION/CONTROL - An Open Discussion

Mr. W

This is where it gets tough.... YOU DON'T GO.

Your goal in Plan B is to never see or speak to your ex-H.

"never see" mean forgoing all games and events where he will be present. You MAY be able to set up a schedule through an intermediary of what games he gets to go to and which ones you will attend but he's not required to respect that. You can't control him and make him not go but perhaps your children, once the initial shock of this change sinks in and they see how much happier you become, they will set boundaries themselves and schedule which games/events you will attend and which dad will attend. They really can enforce it because they will still have a relationship with him.

IMO, your kids will do just fine without you there at every event. My parents had 4 kids and dad worked 80 hours per week...my parents rarely attended our events because they didn't have the time. Didn't stop us all from becoming professionals and well adjusted adults. If dad goes...you don't. Maybe someone can videotape the event for you....another sympathetic mother/friend so you can watch it at home.

Also...you don't have to do this for life. It may become that but for now just commit to trying it for 6 months or 1 year. Once you detach and "move on"....being around your ex-h might be feasible at certain special events in the far off future (say, your daughters wedding). The decision whether to continue Plan B'ing him indefinitely or not will be a lot more clear to you once you've detached. You may discover it was harming you much more than you thought.

Lastly...this isn't YOUR FAULT. You are required by law, ethics or morals to get along with the ex-spouse that hurt you and abandoned you (and your kids). HE caused this and you are finally responding appropriately. You aren't being unfriendly, hurtful, vengeful or spiteful. You are just asking them all to respect your boundaries and that you no longer wish to have any relationship whatsoever with your ex-husband. No one has the right to begrudge you that.

Godspeed,
Mr. W

I just went back and re-read your earlier posts...

1. Get off facebook. No need for allowing him, directly or indirectly, to get access to anything about you or your life and you won't be tempted to try to get your fix of him by snooping around his or his families pages. Withdrawal is tricky and your brain will play tricks on you...removing all access points to potential contact ahead of time is good form.

2. As you do this and your girls question things (they won't understand this and being young and therefore narcissistic they won't like it at first) you'll need to clearly state that no matter what and forever hereafter you will never be forced to socialize, see or speak with the OW. You also never want to see pictures of her or discuss her in any manner (unless she's hurting them in any way). State your boundary NOW...that even if it's your daughters wedding...you will miss it to keep yourself an (emotionally) SAFE distance from OW. You want to immediately deliver the message NOW...way upfront that it's unacceptable for anyone to ever ask you to just get along with her. That means...SHE isn't going to be invited and if Dad doesn't like it...HE can miss the wedding (or other special event) but mom will never be force to endure the humiliation of pretending around THAT woman ever. Your children will eventually stand up for you but only if they KNOW (most people don't tell their kids). Anyway...THAT'S proper modeling and if they stand up for you...they'll stand up for themselves one day (God forbid, they have to).

You can always change your mind later. Weddings are a long way off and some people here have had to suck it up even when they didn't want to. Stating boundaries WAY EARLY helps avoid this confrontations from ever occurring and if they EVER require a suck up the HUGE favor of doing so is recognized as an accommodation versus an entitlement. They will KNOW to seat you far away from each other and not expect you to pretend to like it. You can not say a word to each other and SHE (OW) will remain the cause of the problem instead of you. The truth has a way of protecting you....people won't expect you to just pretend because they will know you don't do that.

Godspeed,
Mr. W

Mr. Wondering, Thanks so very much for all your responses. One thing I want to say is that the modeling behavior doesn't include tolerating an "abusive" relationship in my situation. My ex had an emotional affair, yes. He fell in love with a coworker and handled everything in a crappy way instead of confiding in me about his needs not being met. (Affair wasn't physical until after we divorced....he was home EVERY night). He broke his vows, betrayed me, and caused pain for his family. Since then, he's apologized, played an active role in the girls' lives, always volunteers to help wherever needed, gives me more money than the child support to help pay for the girls' stuff....offers to take my nephew places, tries to be the most helpful he can (I'm sure it appeases his guilt). I'm not defending him at all, please know that, just letting you know that my girls don't see me "accepting" any continuous ongoing "hateful", or mean actions of their dad. I'm just very civil and way too friendly most of the time.

But.......this board is slowly getting it through my thick skull that I really HAVE to do this, emotionally, for my own well being and to fully heal.

I feel very empowered right now. I can get through this last step and implement this.

I am soooooo ready to shut this chapter completely and to FEEL better. I deserve it. His decisions were his decisions, and now he must live with it, and not continue to get what he wants from me.

I am a bit concerned about missing my girls' games. I've always made it a point to be at every game I can possibly be at. My girls are so used to one, or both parents, being there. That's gonna be tough. I get so much joy out of watching them play. I don't know if that's something I can do, although I can certainly not be at EVERY single one. I need a break on the weekends that I don't have the girls. But, if he shows up on the weekends he doesn't have the girls, like he always has, and vice versa, it's gonna seem like I'm the bad parent to stop going every single weekend that I don't have them.

Additionally, I know my girls would NEVER talk about her around me. I don't have to tell them that. They understand fully what the affair has done to our family. It's all I can do sometimes to bite my tongue and keep from asking a question or two of them, but I don't do it.

Thanks MrWondering, and everyone else!!!! Pray for me.....

One more questions...what is DD day, that I see at the bottom of your posts? How is that different from D Day, and is it the same as Plan D? Is that "Divorce Day"?

DD12 = Darling Daughter age 12 (though she's 13 now...I need to update my signature line)

I am not divorced. We recovered. I've never had to do Plan B so my experience with Plan B is limited to my observations on this board and listening to Dr. Harley on the radio. I can be a bit overzealous. In summary...my point is simply...

YOU MATTER TOO

Mr. W

If you keep any contact with your XH it will be difficult to heal. Staying in contact with him is like a wound that never heals.

Yes, Brainhurts. My wound can't heal. Been so frustrating and a drain on my happiness.

MrWondering, congrats on recovering. I thought you may have done a plan B.

So how can we help you?

Can you get an IM that you can bounce his emails and texts to? He would think it's you, but they would only forward the necessities child/finances and you respond back to IM and they send on your response?

We call it a secret or silent IM. Your XH doesn't know any different.

Threads merged.

I did want to add. My wife had battled depression for years. She had tried anti-depressants unsuccessfully. Upon learning and adopting Dr. Harley's behavioral approaches to marital recovery (in a nutshell - feelings follow actions)...my wife adopted that same approach individually. She decided she was going to bloom where she'd been planted. When she's feeling down....she takes actions trusting that feeling better will follow. Such actions may be as simple as mopping the floors, an art project or just getting completely ready and going shopping for groceries while fighting the urge to just go back to bed or sit on the internet all day. My wife hasn't taken an anti-depressant since before 2005.

Once you get through the withdrawal (from your unhealthy addiction to your ex-husband) you should find the ACTION of adopting and implementing Plan B to be cathartic. It doesn't matter that your ex-husband is only a 75% wayward jerk that means well, feels guilty and goes over and above the call of duty versus the 100% wayward jerks we see here most of the time, the fact YOU took the ACTION to separate yourself from him and take control of YOUR recovery and life should eventually leave you feel empowered and enriched.

Most of us forget childhood lessons but we've been taught this behavioralism stuff all our lives. Take the fist step and the rest will follow.

MrWondering,
That's awesome that your wife was able to battle her depression and get off anti-depressants! I have been back and forth with them since the divorce. I had NEVER had the need for them prior to that --- I hate relying on medication, and one day, hope to wean myself completely. I think this final healing will be key.

Thanks so much for that note about getting off this unhealthy addiction to this unhealthy post-divorce relationship we've had. I'm already feeling empowered. I just have to implement it in the right way.

Brainhurts - I don't quite get the reasoning behind a "secret" intermidiary, if one, he doesn't know about it, and two, I am still communicating with him, just through someone else. So, I still am having indirect contact. I don't quite know how that will be very necessary thing...unless, everyone thinks the communication directly could turn into personal stuff. It wouldn't, I haven't talked to him in about 5 days and have not initiated any contact. Prior to that, it was him calling to ask a question about a soccer meeting. I told him briefly in a few sentences what he was wanting to know, then abruptly ended the call. I could tell him to email or text next time, for sure. But I have NO reason to want to engage in anything personal, and I will stick to that.

A start on a potential Plan B letter?????:


First question...It's been a long time but I get the feeling that if the X came back to you today begging to right this wrong and willing to reconcile...that you'd consider it. Thus my Plan B draft below (using a Plan B form from the Notable Posts Forum) leaves that option open.... Obviously, if you aren't interested in reconciliation...all that is coming out.



Hello [x-husband],

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been mentally working on for weeks now. Please read every word I have written, for it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. It appears I neglected some of your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a void in our marriage that allowed your affair with [SlimShady] to happen. I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I would have done whatever it took to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I feel that I have been learning ways to be a stronger woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife once again, as I have so many times felt pride in calling you my husband. I so want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a better life together for us and the children.

That being said, despite appearances, the past five years have been a extremely difficult for me. I am NOT OK. Your affair and the subsequent divorce have been the most emotionally traumatic events of my life. I am still feeling the hurt and pain every time I see and speak to you. I recently saw pictures of our daughters with [slimshady] and it was still like a dagger to my heart. I realize you weren't aware of my feelings in these matters because I've been pretending everything is OK in hopes that one day you'd wake up and come home to me/us. I also pretended because that's what I thought divorced persons were supposed to do for the kids. I can't pretend anymore. It's not good for me and what's not good for me, I've learned, isn't good for my kids either. Lately God has given me a strength that I never knew I possessed. I have grown and matured more as a Christian than I have in my entire lifetime. Whereas in the past I endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it is a drain on my life and that I've been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder this entire time. Therefore, it is with a certain amount of regret and a whole lot of fear that I say to you that until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our previous marriage, I will be having no direct communication with you, and I will not be seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect me. I can't continue to pretend I'm OK while your affair continues and my children have contact with [slimshady]. I also need it if I have any chance of moving on. Our current psuedo-marriage is unhealthy for me.

I ask that you please respect my decision to separate in this way. Please feel free to call the kids at any time and work with them to set up visits. We will communicate by email and, perhaps, an online parent scheduling calender program typically used by parents in high conflict divorces. In essence, we will convert to a parallel parenting plan.

I want nothing more than for us to once again be a team. Again, I know it's been awhile but I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.

I want to grow old with you. I always have. I fooled myself that cooperating with you was the path towards reconciliation with you. I now realize this path has just left me hurting and stuck in the past. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and, unfortunately this many years out, I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to end your adulterous relationship with [slimshady] and truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future. Until then, I no longer wish to see or speak to you again. Please respect my privacy.

God be with you,

Your loving (x)wife,

It needs to be formal and official, otherwise, when you pull away...he'll chase and YOUR brain will trick you into wanting contact. You'll say: "Well, I just HAD TO to talk to him about xyz daughters not pressing emergency". Without a formal notice, he'll want to find out what's wrong and why your acting this way. He needs to be told to leave you alone and WHY he needs to respect that.


Also...the secret intermediary helps weed out his communications to just the facts.

He or she will read his email sent to your new "almosthealed" email address (that he thinks is communicating directly with you) and filtering out anything and everything that isn't pertinent to the children.

He may say:

Hope all is well over there. Call me if you need me to cut the grass or fix that gutter. I'm heading to Sandusky next weekend and hope you can keep the girls sunday night, if possible. I'll come get them monday morning.

Intermediary emails him back:

Let me check my schedule....what time monday morning?

Xhusband emails: 8-8:20 am


Intermediary then emails you:

{Jerk} wants you to keep the kids next Sunday night overnight and he'll be there monday morning at 8-8:20 am to get them. Is that OK with you??????


No greetings. Nothing about the house and no need for you to know where he's going out of town to. The intermediary can limit it to just the brass tacks.

Thanks Mr.W for explaining it so well.

Almosthealed,

That was what I was talking about with the secret IM.

Is this something you could arrange?

Normally...I'd suggest using a KNOWN intermediary and tell the Wayward husband or ex-husband his emails were being filtered but in this case, it's been YEARS. He'll already be complaining about her withdrawing personally from him so I don't want to feed him more ammunition to call her his crazy ex-wife. I can envision him saying: We've been divorced FIVE years and now she's got some bozo intermediary that I have to use as a go-between to communicate with her.

Plus...it's none-ya. As in it's none-of-his-cotton-pickin-business-who-she-has-reading-and-filtering-her-personal-email. Let him have the illusion he's directly emailing with her. We aren't truly Plan B'ing him for his recent affair hoping he'll remember and miss his marriage...it's been five years. He can think whatever he wants....AH just needs the distance herself so she can figure her life out.

Again...commit to a year, at least, and then reevaluate with a clearer mind. This doesn't have to be permanent.

Mr W

That's exactly what I was thinking also. After 5 years he might say what's wrong with status quo and you can't tell me how or who I have to talk to.

I know how much you will heal by not having any communication with your XH at all. You've been trying for 5 years and it hasn't worked.

How about trying Plan B?

Oh wow, MrWondering, that was an amazing letter. I think I will have to edit the parts that seem so willing to reconcile, because I don't know that it's something I'd want to do at this point. I would be an enormous effort on both our parts, but mainly on his to convince me he's sincere and that I can trust him again.

I am thinking about this intermediary thing, who would be the best person to do it (that someone would have to be neutral and trustworthy, and have the time to mess with it).

Thank so very much for taking the time to spell this out for me! Did you come up with that yourself??