Got some useful feedback when I discussed withe my wife the emotional impact withdrawal might have on her. She said she would miss having adult conversation, as she was back to being just a mother. Of corse I asked her to turn to me to meet this need. She is on the one hand appreciative and in the other hand "very very skeptical"

It was interesting that she identified her need for conversation, since Dr H says this is typically one of the top 2 needs for women.

I have been sending flowers and love notes since discovery. Apparently it drove the other man crazy jealous, and helped contribute to the end of the relationship.

On the house, she has moved into her own house so I can't force my way in. Anyway wouldn't that violate the Policy of Joint Agreement.

I have to use seduction to get back (yes I have learned over the years that men can seduce, through caring and conversation)

I sure hope it doesn't take 2 years. I am on both antidepressant and anti anxiety medication , which do help.

I must say that I find myself constantly thinking about my wife. It is strange, but I feel the way I did when we first met.

Nope. POJA stipulates until you both reach an enthusiastic agreement you do nothing. Are you enthusiastic about her decision to keep you out of a family home? Did you come to an agreement that she should buy a new home?

She is the one violating POJA and committing a LoveBuster with her Independant Behavior.

Did you expose her affair?

So Plan A, combined with a background check of the other man, has "worked" in the sense that my wife's affair is over. Hallelujah. But, she is still not ready to get back together with me. She lives in her own home, not the martial home, and she is not ready for me to move back in.

Do I continue with Plan A?

It's helpful if you stick to one thread so that others can follow the story.

Here's your original one, would you mind posting on that one instead?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2749512&page=3

Where does your child live?

I would be hesitant to believe that the affair is over so quickly. That she didn't know something about his history is a bit hard to believe, so, for now, I'd go on the assumption that he is still around.

You all need to be in the same house and there's no way around this. For Plan A to work, this must happen. Too, it will give you a way to monitor your wife to verify no contact.

By the way, has your wife sent a No Contact letter to the OM? Where did they meet? Do they work together?

Just because she says it's over doesn't mean it actually is. To her face take her at her word but continue to monitor for contact. Her version of "ending it" probably doesn't mean "no contact for life".

As far as getting back in the home...that would be ideal but I understand you can't force your way back in. Perhaps she'll let you "rent" a room so you can live together yet separately in the same home. It's tough to hold each other accountable for any changes without being together. Anyone can put on an act for a few hours a day. She is skeptical of your changes so you'll need to take more actions to prove you are actually not just full of crap in an effort to get her back (and trap her again).

One of the problems you had before was online porn and a membership at some illicit website. I would have you self-install a keylogger program on your computer that remotely and automatically emails a report of your online activities to your wife. Maybe just a program that give notice of any hits on a porn website. Something. Then you give your wife access to that email address so she can confirm for herself that your actions/behavior matches what you say. Now...one common complaint she may have is she doesn't want to be your mother or your keeper. Checking up on you may make her feel like she's parenting you, her husband, where she wants a MAN for a husband and not a child. This is easy if you explain to her that YOU are the one who has handled and put away this past problem and that the program is merely a conduit for her to confirm, at any point in time, that you mean what you say. I would also give her passwords to any and all of your emails and other on-line things. Also...even if she doesn't ever look, just knowing she can keeps you accountable and everyone needs accountability partners to keep them honest and avoid vulnerabilities. You are a man...but you are a HUman...and make mistakes. Living a transparent life is actually the way to avoid misconduct and actually a path to intimacy between you and her. She, of course, has struggles as well as SHARING and holding each other accountable is a big step towards intimacy.


On another note...women are much more likely to work and succeed in a marital recovery program like MB than men. Dr. Harley spends much of his time working with couples trying to keep the least motivated partner motivated to stick to the program. A great percentage of the time that is the man. The fact you are motivated and posting here bodes well for YOUR motivation to work a behavior modification program like MB. I'd say you should start introducing the program to her over the course of the next few weeks (while realizing that if OM isn't out of the picture completely yet...killing the affair is still goal number one).


Godspeed,
Mr. W

Some new info, my wife belives that I have made changes, but is now worried that we will simply backslide into our old pattern of behavior. This was characterized by:

My Wife complains, then I get defensive, My wife doesn't feel heard, so she complains louder (disrepectful judgements followed by angry outbursts)I build a wall to shut out the loud noise.My wife gives up for a while but feels emotionaly abandoned, while I end up being depressed.

Another key thing my wife told me: She accepts that I want to be with her now, but insists that I didn't really want to be with her before. She feels that my behavior proves that i didn't really want her. She says she hasn't fundamentally changed that much, so what makes me really want her? Again, not accepting that my change is enough.

By following Dr Harley's program you can easily avoid backsliding. Implementing key principles into your M like the Policy of Radical Honesty will be key. It will work best if you do one of Dr Harley's programs together.


�I have been a selfish fool and I let my pride and lack of self esteem ruin the best part of my life. I was more concerned about my well being instead of providing you with love, care and protection.

Complaints in a marriage are a good thing if they are done respectfully. And if I wasn�t such a child before I would have realized that. I realize it now. I should have listened to your complaints and tried to understand your perspective. Then we could have discussed, brainstormed and negotiated a better way for us to handle the situations that came up in our everyday lives. �


�It wasn�t that I didn�t want you it�s that I wanted what I wanted more. I was selfish. I will no longer live my life that way. My job as your H is to love you, care for you and protect you. If we work together I know that I can do that. I can change, am changing, so that you fall in love with me again.�

Threads merged. Please stick to one thread.

**edit**

Let her know how you feel and whether you want to try and restore the marriage-- and then give her a list of concrete things you need from her in order for her to begin rebuilding trust with you. (Ex. end the affair and all contact with the other man, answer your questions regarding the affair, be upfront with her account passwords, phone bills, etc., attend counselling,-- whatever things YOU need her to do for you so you can begin rebuilding trust in her again.) This puts the ball in her court to be proactive about moving forward if she so chooses, and it gives you something measurable to gauge the relationship by. It also encourages her by offering tangible things she can do for you both in order to move forward. **edit**

**edit**

A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders. It is not a platform for personal philosophies. Please help this poster with Marriage Builders or refrain from posting. Thank you.

Very good progress but don't break the champagne out just yet. Affairees don't usually give a fig about logic or reputation and very often run straight back into OM's arms for no discernable reason at all. She's still keeping her space and her privacy so be aware she is probably keeping her options open.

Keep tabs on her as much as possible.






You CAN Plan A very effectively from afar. However for recovery to begin she has to move home. Plan A is about enticing her back. Invite her over. Go to her place. Court her.



Get anti depressants to help keep you level, Plan A is tough.

It is your plan so you're in charge. Not your wife, not random luck. Plan A is about giving HER a lifeline and showing her what she can have. If she foolishly doesn't take it up you will be safe in Plan B in 6 months time knowing you did everything right and with no regrets.



Again, great Plan A-ing - but remember that affairs are notoriously off again/on again. Its a marathon.



Start welcoming complaints. See them as tips.



You need to demonstrate behaviour over time. Talk is cheap. Especially to a wayward who is busy demonising you to minimise her guilt.

Not even this may be enough. Six months of demonstrating what life CAN be like with you (Plan A) may need to be followed up with a period of letting her experience life WITHOUT your help (Plan B). Carrot and stick.

First thanks everyone for the advice.

The interesting thing about the other man is he has left a trail of ex-wives and ex-girlfriends, all who have formed a kind of club. I spoke to one of the ex-wives. She confirmed that this man is a real expert con man, that had all of them convinced he was somebody that he was not. I put my wife in touch with the club in hopes that it will reinforce her decision to not contact this man.

But I understand that she will be tempted, and am being as watchful as possible.

LonelyMan, you say the affair is over. What evidence do you have, other than what your wayward has told you? You understand that waywards are liars by definition, correct? I've looked through your thread and see nothing that would convince me that the affair is over. You are in no position to be able to snoop, the two of you are still under separate roofs, it appears that no NC letter has been sent, and YOU DID NOT EXPOSE THE AFFAIR to the people in the best position to help convince her to end it.

As far as the "ex club" - remember that waywards live in a fantasy world. It is very likely that your WW and her OM have sworn to each other that they are 'soul mates'. He has likely convinced her that she is "different" than the other women; that she is "The One". She'll buy that fantasy a lot faster than listening to women he's likely described as angry, disgruntled, scorned, etc.

I get the feeling you're hoping this thing will burn itself out without intervention by you. I don't get the feeling that that's going to happen under your current conditions. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been around here for a while, and that's not generally the way things go in an affair.

Where does your child live?

Why does your wife's family think that she left? Have you talked to them?

[/quote]LonelyMan, you say the affair is over. What evidence do you have, other than what your wayward has told you? You understand that waywards are liars by definition, correct? I've looked through your thread and see nothing that would convince me that the affair is over. You are in no position to be able to snoop, the two of you are still under separate roofs, it appears that no NC letter has been sent, and YOU DID NOT EXPOSE THE AFFAIR to the people in the best position to help convince her to end it.

As far as the "ex club" - remember that waywards live in a fantasy world. It is very likely that your WW and her OM have sworn to each other that they are 'soul mates'. He has likely convinced her that she is "different" than the other women; that she is "The One". She'll buy that fantasy a lot faster than listening to women he's likely described as angry, disgruntled, scorned, etc.

I get the feeling you're hoping this thing will burn itself out without intervention by you. I don't get the feeling that that's going to happen under your current conditions. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been around here for a while, and that's not generally the way things go in an affair. [/quote]

Wow this worries me a bit. I can electronically monitor her credit card transactions to see if she makes purchases in his area (about 1hr away from where she lives). So far these purchases line up with the time line that she has told me. She also copied me on e-mail that she sent to the OM telling him, despite what he feels, it is not Gods will that they be together. Yes, he is trying to villainies the other ladies, but his lies and black and white facts (his criminal record, his divorce that finished just this month, well after the affair started) have caught up to him. I think my wife sees through him now. But she admits to being �lonely� and missing �adult conversation� that the OM gave her. I am trying to fill this void as best that I can. She has also identified my independent behavior in the past as a major issue, or as she puts it: �you live in your own world�. I will get home to the US next week for pre-move visit. I hope to have some impact, as I prepare to return home permanently.
I haven�t spoken to her family. Never exactly saw eye to eye with them. They know, and her mother is visiting this week (should help dampen any romance that remains, trust me, I know from experience).

Yet more news, I think it is really finally over, as the other man has agreed to move-on. It seems he is a bit of a swindler (stealing not just hearts, but $), and now he knows that he wont get any money out of my wife, he is already moving on to his next target. This fits his M.O. well. I am hopeful but always cautious. I also know that there are other - "other men" out there, and I have to be proactive in repairing my relationship with my wife.

So plan A continues, with appropriate "trust but veryify" attitude.

They know what?

Self-preservation requires that she not be too candid with the truth when talking with her family.

Odds are pretty high that you, in other words, and are the sole reason for her hitting the road. What "reason" you gave her could range from an out-of-touch husband who just didn't give a damn any longer to a raging alcoholic who used swear words in record quantities daily.

OM, if his name was ever mentioned, is a kind friend that she "sort of" knows, at best or, at worst, is someone that she supposedly met long after you separated.

It's likely that the goal was to remove you from the picture and insert the OM as your replacement following a suitable period of separation. To make this transition easy, you have to be the bad guy.

Getting to the point--you should give them a call and ask them for their support in your marriage. Tell them who OM is so that they'll know who to watch out for.

What's the source of this? Him? Your wife?

I'd expedite your return to the States if at all possible. If you arrange an early departure, make your arrival a surprise.