HELP!

H refuses to come clean with questions before polygraph. I told him it was an opportunity to come clean. He says it would just make him angry. He says he is angry that I don't trust him.

Not really surprised that he would refuse to answer. But, what next?

Let him know you are willing to give him an opportunity to EARN your trust and this is the first step. But trust is not a welfare entitlement and he is not a welfare mama. Just let him know you need the answers to all of these questions to move forward. Then calmly leave the room. If he won't answer the questions he is admitting he has something to hide and is not serious about being trustworthy. His refusal should tell you everything you need to know.

If he wants to be trusted, then he has to earn it. This is the first step in earning your trust. The problem is that you DON'T trust him because he has not earned it.

Just think, if your spouse didn't trust you and you had nothing to hide wouldn't you JUMP at the chance to clear your name?

When he proclaims "you don't trust me!!!" Just politely agree with him. When my H pulled the "you don't trust me!!!" card on me, I said "no shytt, Sherlock!!" He never pulled that again!

here

EXACTLY what I am thinking, ML! (I did not tell him that, though. Just kept quiet to allow him to think about it.). Told him later,

that if we cannot be O & H, it bodes badly for our marriage. He said he hadn't thought it was part of the poly and has had a change of heart. So, he has become willing..

You should be telling him that! Being "quiet" is not being honest.

In negotiation strategy there is a tactic called "The limitations of a higher authority", in which one party says to the other, "Yes, I'd LOVE to grant you those terms, but my boss would fire me on the spot on learning of that decision."

In a similar, but not identical, vein, to prevent head-on spouse-vs-spouse "you-don't-trust-me" conflicts, casually reference that as much as you (the neophyte) WANT to trust him, the heartless (experienced) b@$+@rds here will have no part of any such capitulation.

Then drop the subject for a while.....but let him see you researching the divorce laws in your jurisdiction.

Yes. I totally agree!

We had our convo re poly questions. He was forthcoming about one EA. But, there are a number of incidents I "jogged his memory" about. I told him after our convo that if he thought of anything else related to the questions that he had forgotten, to please let me know. I asked him if he felt our convo felt threatening to him, and he said it hadn't.

If any of you b@$+@rds out there have any other suggestions, fire away!

And thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for all your help, so far.

Well, he PASSED the poly. I guess that should make me happy. But, the revelation of his EA is beginning to hit me

Interesting observation that the Polygrapher made: He said that H came into the room extremely angry. He also said that H has a strong need to control. H even tried to control how the poly was going to be done. Polygrapher said he had to tell H that HE was in charge of the poly. He also said that he has rarely seen such behavior in someone who was about to take a poly. And he's had a lot of experience with all types, including major prisoners. (Polygrapher has done work for Nancy Grace, for example). He said that based on H behavior, he was SURE, before the test, that H "was guilty as hell". After the test, he made sure H was calmed down both before he had me come into the room and after I came in. I guess H let his true colors show, a rare thing except with me, and why I get so upset when therapists don't see what the Polygrapher and I saw/see.

Well, scratch that about the Polygrapher. Apparently, he asked H why he would want to be married to someone who did not trust him and would make him take the test. So, now H says he wants a D.

I seriously doubt the polygrapher said that. I am sorry that your husband would rather divorce you than assure you of his honesty. In my opinion, that is not a marriage worth saving. Sorry.

I agree. I doubt the polygrapher made that comment. Other than for employment purposes, one of the biggest reasons for a polygraph is marital infidelity.

Has your H mentioned divorce before?

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Even if he DID say this to your husband, I wouldn't be concerned about it. He was probably trying to get your husband to calm down or confess or be less embarrassed by playing GOOD COP/BAD COP. He is obviously experienced with law enforcement and manipulation. He knew that he was working for you. Just a means to an end.

Thank you, Didn'tQuit.

Yes, the thought did cross my mind that the Polygrapher was using tactics. In fact, he told me he would. I just did not expect that. H has calmed down quite a bit since he made that comment about divorce.

I also got some meds for depression and anxiety this pm, so I have calmed down, too. No more 3 am "talks" with H. That's counterproductive, of course. Dr. has a WONDERFUL nurse who talked with me, too. So, better, today.

Hey,wrote the following earlier, but it somehow ended up somewhere in cyberspace. So, I will try again. Also, in between, you answered jlkb's post. Thank you for answering so well and so quickly. He says he will write a reply later.

So, here's what I wrote Harleys a couple of days ago. Still waiting for a reply from them. So,I thought that maybe, in the meantime, you might make some suggestions, as well:

Dear Harleys,
I am attaching my email of 4/8 so that you might remember us from your radio show on that date. At the end of the show, you kindly offered to serve as our Accountability Coaches. You asked that we check back with you in one month. It has now been a little over one month.

We have somewhat improved. H quit golf after his golf after his golf trip. We are spending quality time together. After I started taking antidepressants and anti anxiety meds, I have had no further AOs. [Have to interject here that I did have one, yesterday.] My needs for affection and recreational activity have been met. His needs for affection and SF have also been met, except for those times he has been angry with me. His choice to not have SF. But, he still continues dishonesty and independent behavior, though to a lesser degree.

[The next two paragraphs have to do with H's resentment over EP's. I think you have already addressed that issue with jlkb.]

...When one of H's friends asked him why he quit golf, he told that friend, "W says we have been growing apart, so I have to quit playing." I may be paranoid about this, but I feel the blame has been put entirely on me and the whole neighborhood is saying, "Poor H. W is such a ___." I don't know how to handle this and need your help, please.

During the radio show, we also discussed the POJA. I was told I was "not making it safe for him", and that was why he would "capitulate". I have worked very hard to make it safe and H agrees that I have made it safe. Yet, we are still struggling with my following the "enthusiastic agreements" we have made, and H not following through on his part. He continues to say he "will do better next time." I am growing mighty weary of this.

I'm sorry this is such a long email [the rest not pertinent to the forum]

W

PS I have offered H the opportunity to read this [email to Harleys] but he has declined.

It's been awhile since I have posted. If you want to read my previous posts, the title is "Extraordinary Procautions---Opinions Please". I don't seem to have the energy to repost it all 😞

To make a very long story short, my H has had at least two emotional affairs in the 24 years we have been married. With Dr. H's advice, we have implemented EP's. My H halfheartedly follows them, except he still flirts with other women. He says EP's make him feel like a 3-year-old and resents following them. I have not found this attitude expressed anywhere else on this forum, so I am hoping someone will help me figure out how to handle it.

He has posted, as well, a while back, and was taken to task by those who responded. So now, he tells me he knows he's an ***hole like they said, but he still resents EPs.

What next? Anybody?

You don't have to repost the thread...just add to it instead of making a new thread.

Bumping for TheSewer.

Your H must learn never to flirt with women. He simply must stop it, because it's so offensive to you and dangerous to your marriage. He can develop the habit of always acting in a reserved manner with women, calling them Ms. Last Name, never discussing anything personal with them, and certainly never making any personal compliments.

Has he agreed to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement with you and the Policy of Radical Honesty? How is this process coming along?

How did you discover that he still flirts? Does he tell you? Do you see it?

Does he follow all the other EPs? Does he understand that EPs are to prevent another affair from ever happening again?

Thank you, LongWayFromHome.

Yes. He flirts with them in front of me and ignores me in favor of them. So, it's not a stretch to believe he flirts behind my back, as well.

He follows the POJA. But, as I understand it, EPs are non-negotiable. He did SAY he agreed to them when I presented them to him. It is also my understanding that the WS will try to renegotiate, but I must not give in.

He says he is following the PORH when he tells me that he resents them.

Yes, he follows the EPs except for the flirting.