Your H is being very uncaring. You're correct: EPs are not negotiable. Flirting is offensive to you, and a caring husband would STOP flirting. Since he has already had two affairs, he MUST stop flirting, because it is often the first step in an affair.

Even if he had never had an affair, his flirting would be an offense to you. Flirting would be an offense to most wives.

If your H will not stop flirting, then you should consider preparing for a separation, because he's acting in a very uncaring way toward you.

Even if he were to stop flirting, he would still tell me he resents them and that, at some point, he should be able to stop doing EPs.

How do I handle the resentment part?

That's ok, because the greater risk is your resentment. That is the greater risk. Let him know you may not feel so resentful if he stops. It will take time but if he tries hard to make it up to you with a safe, loving approach it will eventually fade. Flirting has no place in marriage and is profoundly disrespectful to you.

Let him know you will stay married to him as long as EPs are in place since their absence means you are not safe. You are not willing to be unsafe again.

He is not following POJA. Are you enthusiastic about his flirting? Of course not. So, he shouldn't do it. *That* is following POJA.

Flirting is a form of courting and if he does that, I would plan to separate from him. My DH also had a bad flirting habit and I gave him an opportunity to stay married to me if he stopped.

Not to mention that flirting is a HUGE lovebuster for the offended spouse. Yuck!!

Oh. Thank you, ML.

I think I get it now. So, basically, ignore his whining (lol) and continue on course, except for the flirting. He did tell me he was going to "try" to stop the flirting. I know it's part of his personality and a very bad habit. Old habits are hard to break, but he must, I agree!

"Try??" Ok, "try" is a weasel word used by people who have no intention of quitting. I would not accept that!!! He won't get out of the habit if he doesn't STOP. And he can't stop he needs to stay away from females.

He needs to STOP flirting now. Saying he will "try" doesn't cut it.

TS, you need to start holding this fella accountable and stop tolerating his disrespectful, cruel behavior. That is part of the problem.

"know it's part of his personality and a very bad habit. Old habits are hard to break, but he must, I agree!"

You are in the bad habit of allowing this...

To add: My H also had a bad habit of flirting with women. He had to learn a whole new way of relating to them. We play acted a lot and I set up scenarios for us to work through, until he had a kind of script to follow.

He has to call women by either Ms. Last Name or First Name.

No personal compliments ever, nothing about their appearance or their personality. Workplace compliments are okay,such as praising for a job well done.

He must stand an arm's length away, even stepping back, if necessary.

He simply had to learn to act in a more reserved manner toward and with women. No more easy familiarity.

And he did it, too, with a few bumps and hiccups along the way. He did resent it a bit at first, but my resentment would be much worse. I was prepared with an escape plan if he continued.

I am the husband. I admit that I had an emotional affair with my ex. She wanted
To get back together and said she was going to re-marry otherwise. I did not care- in fact
It seemed a good idea. My critical mistake was to continue to talk with her about her problems behind my wife's back. Had I just stopped talking with my ex, most of our current problems could have been avoided and been better for my ex as well. At the time I rationalized that we never lived closer than 800 miles. The second "emotional affair" was with a female co-worker I worked with on and off for about 8 years. At times we did discuss our personal relationships but mostly it was about catching up with each other on what others we knew were doing. A few times we ate lunch together in the company cafeteria, but others were eating with us. That relationship ended 10 years ago. I will admit that those in the forum who call me an [censored] and a jerk are right. I am trying to live up to me wife's EPs, but I believe they are excessive considering how long ago these things happened. I do resent having to ask my wife to use my phone and check e-mail. My solution was to try giving me a phone that has no other function. That way I can use the phone without asking permission and she can check on-line to see all calls to and from the phone. That is unacceptable. One iis not supposed to negotiate EPs once established.

Ok. That was interesting.

Of course, he left out a lot of stuff. The EA's lasted 12 years and 8 years, respectively. He talked to these women about intimate details about OUR marriage. It was not until last night that H admitted that these EAs were affairs. For years, he demanded that I "get over it". No help from him, of course.

I found Dr. H's site a few months ago. And I sought his, and your, help at that time. EPs have been in place for 3-4 months, I think.

I will continue to enforce EPs and ignore his whining. I am taking ADs and anti-anxiety meds. Forgot to take the ADs last night, so had an AO today. I know that is not acceptable. So, I will make sure to take ADs every day. Anti-anxietys are to be taken "as needed". I have no refills, so use them when I feel an AO coming. 😁

One last question, though: Aside from calling H on his flirting, which does not work, how do you suggest I put an end to the flirting?

Yikes, this was my WxH. When confronted, he would react similarly to your H.

You can see from my signature line how it ended.

If he flirts in front of you, he does NOT follow POJA. If he followed POJA, there would be no need to discuss EPs. He would understand that you don't like him flirting and he would stop it.

Here's what Dr Harley told a poster when she asked him about her H not respecting her request that he not attend co-ed AA meetings:



http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2418611

I wrote to Dr Harley on the private forum about my WxH's flirting and this was something he said that I thought applied to your situation:

I am going to say this and hope that I'm wrong. I think your husband is actively seeking an affair. That is making him foggy and ignore the pain he has/is inflicting upon you. If this is true the educating him will be fruitless because it is coming from the person trying to ruin his fun, YOU. I think you should email the radio show and offer to be a guest and have your husband on as well. That way you won't have to be a broken record you can have Dr. Harley do that for you lol.

That is some very interesting logic. The purpose of extraordinary precautions is to prevent an affair from happening in the FUTURE, it has nothing to do with the past. For example, if I get hit by a car playing chicken in 2003, will I be safe playing chicken in 2013 just because I have not been hit for a few years?


Why don't you brainstorm solutions with her? Keep in mind the main purpose is to protect her from another affair.

And do you really flirt? That should be a deal breaker. Flirting is a form of courting and is extremely disrespectful to your wife. It is also C.R.E.E.P.Y. puke when a married man flirts. Do you know what most women call you behind your back? DIRTY OLD MAN!!! yuck!! Only the most desperate of old broads find that appealing. Please stop doing that to YOURSELF and your wife.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

With my H at age 70, yup Dirty Old Man! Thanks for lifting my spirits 😊

I'm not sure i understand about brainstorming solutions. Aren't EPs nonnegotiable? Anyway, for what it's worth, the original EP was to let me see his emails when he looked at them. This went to Hell in a hand basket. He would go into the kitchen and, with his back to me, look at his emails. After several days of this, and my requesting that he not look at his emails without me, and his disregarding my requests, I took it upon myself to change his PW. Now, he CAN'T check w/o my being right there with him. So, he behaved himself into the present circumstances that he hates. Oh WELL!!

TS, I removed this post, but will you allow me to email you a question? If so, please hit notify and send the mods your email address and ask them to send it to me. Thanks!