Pius,

Having used Dr. Chalmers to help in my M I can�t say enough good things about her and what she can do to make a difference. If your W won�t participate then I would definitely get Jennifer on the phone to help you out there.

You are in the unenviable position of having to try to woo your W back into your M. I�m sure it is quite difficult given the betrayal you�ve had to endure. But in the same breath you have the opportunity to woo her. This means you�ll have to do a LOT of heavy lifting and probably can expect very little from your W for quite some time. But the opportunity is there and with hard work and a good plan you can do it and your M can recover.

You�ve already been given a few ideas on things you can do which fall in line with some of the things you are already doing Family commitment , financial and domestic support. A lot of the cooperative emotional needs (Conversation, RC, SF, etc) are going to be difficult to accomplish until she tries the program or returns to the state of conflict in the M. In the meantime keep using those 3 needs to entice her. Family is a great way to keep her in the game. We all dream of a happy, loving family. Use it. Show the kids what a fun, happy and polite father you can be and try to use every opportunity to loop your W into the mix.

That being said there are other things you can do/provide her that don�t require her cooperation. Admiration and affection are big ones that you don�t need her help with. Being kind to her is affectionate. Same goes for flirting . And providing her with sincere compliments provide admiration. Just be prepared knowing she won�t be ready to accept them. Be diligent in your efforts. It�ll pay dividends somewhere down the road.

You want to clean up your side of the street so she sees a change in you. Something as simple as being happy, pleasant and full of energy can be contagious. It�s how you want to be in life anyways so just do it as much as is humanly possible.

On the flip side of that don�t be a doormat. Be sure you are careful not to sacrifice and certainly maintain a firm hold on those mandatory EPs.

It will be impossible for a woman not to fall in love with someone who is strong and yet fun, happy, polite, flirty, affectionate, considerate, etc, etc, etc.

You're right, most of my post was just a vent.

Pius, you, at least, seem to have correctly read my post not as one of DIScouragement, but of ENcouragement. Yes, Plan A may take longer than would be desired, but if your LB$ holds up, and you stay with the Plan, it is the best shot your marriage has!

Steel yourself against generating expectations, and throw yourself into being the "ideal man" for your WW's EN schema. You mentioned family, domestic and financial support as her biggies, but don't let slide some others, which can yield surprising results, simply because you possibly DID NOT in the past pay them proper heed. Set up new opportunities for RC, especially if they can be mixed into family support, for example.

Good advice, MrAlias. It is just so hard not to get discouraged. I feel like I've been at it so long, even though only the last three weeks really counts since that's when she (hopefully) ended the affair.

That is why I keep encouraging you to get antidepressants, Pius. We know ahead of time that there are going to be discouraging times. Get the help you need now to keep going.


That's right - you've really only just begun. Recovery is going to be hard work. And for right now, your wife is in the withdrawal that Dr. Harley describes at the end of an affair.

Have you read all of SAA yet? All of this is described in that book. Read it and get a realistic idea of what recovery is going to involve.

I totally understand that. It isn't going to be easy from where you are right now. I've never taken ADs so I can't speak to that but the people that have recommended them I believe have and so they're speaking from experience on how they can help you these next few months. I�d take their advice very seriously.

I want you to seriously consider what you're going to do to maintain your resolve because you will need it. One thing you must know is that things may seem to be staying stagnant but if you do a great Plan A you must know you aren�t maintaining the status quo.

There are a few analogies that float around on this board that are used to describe how your W will come back to you. Like throwing rocks in a river in an effort to create a bridge to your W, to her heart. You won�t see the bridge until it reaches a point where your LB deposits(rocks) break the surface. There will be no apparent change and then one day you�ll see it � some indication that she�s back in the M. The rocks may settle and that little indication may seem to disappear for a bit but keep up the good work and it�ll soon come back.

It�s hard. I�ve heard it in tons of people�s stories on this board. It has paid off for many of them. It does work if you stick it out and keep working it.

Keep yourself energized. Eat right, get plenty of sleep, exercise. All those things can help you keep you on task. Not to mention what it will show your WW.

Even Dr. Harley recommends ADs.

OK, just finished "Surviving an Affair." So much in there was so accurate - describes what WW and I have experienced to a tee. Our situation is so similar to "Sue" and "Jon" in the book. Replace cycling with Jon's career and Jon is basically me.

And, I have great news to report. My WW agreed to read the book! I really think if I can get her on board with the suggestions therein that we can really turn the ship around.

As stated by others, she is currently in the "withdrawal" status as described in chapter 6. Reading that gives me hope that this will not last forever.

Pius, that is great!! I just want to caution you about getting yourself moved out of that neighborhood and doing it FAST. As long as you live right there by the OM this is all hopeless and recovery will be impossible. She will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal and will never move to the next step.

Can you move out NOW and sell your house later?

I really wish we could but I just don't think it's financially possible. Though I have a good job, my wife is a stay at home mom and we have five kids. As a result our budget is tight as it is. However our house is now officially on the market - the sign is up and everything - so with any luck we'll get a buyer soon. I think we priced it fairly aggressively, in terms of selling it soon.

Hopefully it sells soon!! Do you have it nicely staged?

Great news Pius. And great news that she is going to read the materials.

I suggest you read together these books at a minimum. SAA, HNHN and LoveBusters.

I think so. We de-cluttered, did some touch up paint, and pressure washed the patio and siding. I think it looks nice.

Yay - first showing of our house takes place in a few minutes, and someone else coming on Saturday.

It only takes one buyer!

OK, new problem. My WW and I are finally going out on a date tomorrow. We are going out to dinner. But I am worried about what we should talk about. She has been so hard to converse with lately. She generally seems to answer all of my questions with one word responses. Even more worrisome, the only thing that has been on either of our minds lately is the present events relating to the disaster that is our marriage. And I really really don't want the conversation to go there. I would much rather have our date night be something fun and enjoyable. But at this point I don't even know many neutral topics to discuss that she would find interesting. Things she used to be interested in, she hasn't been interested in for quite some time. And obviously with the affair going on she has shielded me from many of her deep thoughts and interests. Even in my own case, the things I've been interested in have also been put on the back burner for quite some time so I could focus on the present crisis. So I'm worried that either despite my best efforts, the conversation will get steered into unpleasant topics, or else we will simply sit there silently the whole time. Does anyone have any tips? I have read and re-read Dr. Harley's article on the friends of good conversation, but I'm just wondering how to apply it.

Check out a part of this thread Here

3rd post Down by blind sighted and the following post for some ideas

There are actually a few helpful posts in there

Don't talk relationship talk during your UA time at this time.

Keep it light.
Go in ahead of time with some topics.

Like New movies or some top story about actors.
Or is she into music? Or books or Art? Exercise?

Yes I definitely want to keep it light too! But I'm not really sure what she's into now! She's basically been reading books about emotional healing, and of course she agreed to read SAA. At one point she was very interested in fitness but it has been several years since then and she pretty much gave it up. She does seem to have renewed her interest in her church, so I'm thinking I could maybe talk about some theological topic. But of course though I find that stuff interesting, it isn't exactly "light" and if I wasn't careful that could also steer on to dangerous ground. Or maybe should I just come out and ask her what is interesting to her nowadays, what is she thinking about (besides our marriage)? If I do though I bet she would just say "nothing" or not answer...argh...I'm really going to have to think about this...This affair has been going on so long - and of course she hasn't talked to me barely at all while it was - that I have completely lost touch with her.

Why don't you tell her some funny stuff that is going on at work? What subjects is she interested in? If I have a customer that is interested in sports, I will pick up one little sports tidbit from the weekend and say something like "how bout them Dallas Cowboys?" And they will just start talking about sports. They have no idea that I know nothing about sports but they think I do!!

And be sure and get a nice haircut, wear cologne and wear a nice shirt and pants. NO TENNIS SHOES!!