Background: Regarding jump-starting another car: It is my understanding that before cranking (i.e. turning the key on) the �dead� car, it is good to rev the engine of the �jumping� car in order to recharge the dead battery. It is also my understanding that after jump-starting the �dead� car, you should disconnect the cables immediately once the �dead� car has started so that you don�t create a power-feedback into the jumping car�s power system and possibly cause damage to the jumping car�s alternator. I don�t know if this is true, but I believe I heard it from a mechanic and as a mechanical engineer (not electrical, mind you), it makes sense to me. Although I admit that it might not be true.

More Background: We are middle-class, but we are living literally from paycheck to paycheck.***edit**** We have two cars: I�ll call them CarA (Japanese car with 200k miles) and CarB (Korean car with 150k miles�a true piece of doggy excrement). CarB has been nothing but problems since we purchased it a few months ago. It has been one problem after another. This time, it seems to be an alternator, but we�re not sure yet since we�re still POJA�ing whether or not to take it to a reputable mechanic or to a non-licensed guy who can probably replace the alternator for a fraction of a shop�s labor costs. So CarB died while my son was driving it and he was able to push it into a parking lot of a nearby store. Today my W and I went to jump-start it and drive it home where it will sit while we POJA about what to do next (we didn�t want the store to tow it away while we are in the �do nothing� state).

Situation at hand: After I correctly installed the jumper cables on both cars, my wife started CarA. I told her to rev it up to 2k RPM�s. I let the "juice" from CarA charge CarB's battery for about a minute, then I cranked CarB and it started. I went to disconnect the cables based on my understanding described above. While doing this, my wife said, �Leave them on!� I said back to her, while removing the cables, �It ruins the car.� She then replied in an angry voice, �You�re not listening to me!� And I replied back, �It�ll ruin the car, do you want me to put them back on?!?� She replied, �I don�t care. I want you to listen to me.� She then rolled up her window. I finisehd disconnecting the cables, closed our hoods, and I got in CarB and drove it home (keeping it rev'ed up the whole time).

As of right now we�re both pretty frustrated. She feels like I�d put the car over our marriage. I feel like she put me in a no win situation. Rather than tell me what her concern was WHEN she became concerned (after I had removed � the cables), she turned this into a battle between my commitment to our marriage vs. blowing out our only running car.

Question for the MB masses: So I want to ask y�all what should I have done? I know that by the letter of the law, when she started voicing concern, I should have done nothing and left the jumper cables half connected and asked her about her concerns/feelings/etc. Perhaps something like: �Honey, I�m really concerned that leaving the cables on will ruin our only good car. Is it OK with you if I remove the cables?� However, I went ahead and removed the cables since I was worried that having them half connected with both cars running may have been worse than having them fully connected with both cars running. I didn�t feel like we could sit and exercise POJA with CarA�s alternator being destroyed. Any advice is helpful.

You should have immediately turned off both cars and discussed it calmly, coming to a solution you could both agree to.

It sounds to me like you were disrespectfully addressing your wife as if you are the "expert" in cars and she is the layman/ignorant/non-expert person. You may not have said so in so many words, but I can see why it would have come across to her that way and probably been very hurtful, especially if you have a history of saying things that she finds disrespectful.

I'm suspecting there's a hint of that in your negotiations about the mechanic as well.

You may know more about your wife than some things, but you should not discount her viewpoint, or you are going to come off as her educator.

Really you want to leave the cables connected after you jump the car for 5 or more minutes if you can. Then disconnect the negative or ground first from the jumped car and then the positive. I've seen batteries ruined from not following this order.

I would have said to her that you were going to remove the cables. In your situation, I'massuming you already removed the negative when she said something. I would have stopped and asked her what's up. What iI would not do is to put tgethe negative back on or you could have very well destroyed the battery.

I am an electronics engineer, and I can give you the physically-correct answer, for all that its worth. I'd rather address the real problem.

You should have discussed the entire plan of action with your wife before attempting to execute it. You should have both been in agreement as to what you were going to do, and when you were going to do it. Attempting POJA on the fly doesn't work well. POJA requires your full attention. You should either do this before you start, or you should stop the process like Prisca said and start over when you both are in agreement. You shouldn't put yourself in an authority position over your wife, even if you know with certainty that you are right. You need to respect her enough to involve her in you problem-solving thought process, and reach an agreement that uses your combined knowledge to achieve the best result.

I remember those State of Conflict days, where everything seemed to escalate so fast! The key is to catch if before it escalates so bad. In the story above, I'm not catching the move from neutral to "Leave it on!" Which sounds like a SD, not a Thoughtful Request. But maybe she was only yelling because it was loud. Maybe you didn't observe it either, the shift from neutral to LBing? I like how markos described what your wife may have been thinking. But it would be hard for her to express all that while you two are far apart.

I think POJA is supposed to start with easy things, like lettuce in the grocery, so it would be easy by the time you get to this stuff. What do you think?

I don't think it's realistic to expect you all are going to get everything perfect in real time. I hope you all can make up today

^Yes this. It seems like from your post, you had serious convictions about what you thought was the "right" way to do this, and that there was a "time-sensitive" nature of the procedure. Those are always two red flags for me to POJA in advance. Add the two running engines with the hoods up so everyone's shouting. Gets to be a real mess, real fast.

Prisca. I actually like this solution. At the time I think I was so happy that the "Dead" car actually turned over that I probably wouldn't have been comfortable turning it off again. But in hindsight, I see that your suggestion here is truly the "do nothing" position. My W and I struggle with the defining the true "do nothing" position time and time again.

Yeah- that's what I came away with: I wish we would have POJA'ed before we started. But it's hard for us to foresee when a "situation" will arise that requires POJA. We...or perhaps just "I"...just go along assuming that we'll magically agree...afterall, doesn't everyone think like me ;^). But then when the engines are running and the stress is high, neither of us handle things well.

So my learnings here are:
(1) Try to always POJA BEFORE the stressful situation. And if that didn't happen, then
(2) Immediately go to a "do nothing" state. This is very hard for me as i tend to get "stuck" in my ways (Aspie trait that I'm working on). But I will work on it.

Thanks everyone!

But, you see, your resentment of turning it off while uncomfortable doing so would only have lasted until the two of you came up with an alternate solution. Your wife's resentment of your IB and disrespect, though, will stay with her. Your IB removed any other option, and it cannot be undone.



You are going to need to stop making that assumption. You need to get in the habit of considering your wife in everything you do. I have heard Dr. Harley tell some men to not even brush their teeth unless their wife is enthusiastic about it.

To get into the habit of considering her in everything, start asking "How would you feel if I ..." or "What do you think about ..." before doing anything.

POJA forces you to be considerate. Don't work on it. Just do it.

Usually it's pretty clear - do nothing. If you're driving, pull over.


One thing that is important is to learn to calm down in what feels like a "crisis." When it's a "crisis" to you your instinct is to do the "right" thing no matter what - at the expense of your wife.

Stay calm. Make that rule number one! If you do, your brain will work better and concentrate on problem solving, rather than shutting down to let you run on adrenaline.

BTW, how's your UA time?

We were doing pretty well with our UA and then got derailed for a few months. Our time together was NOT the most enjoyable time of the week. Things went south, but we're climbing back on the horse. We are getting help from the MB Coaches - they gave us some new assignments to help us keep our UA time pleasant and enjoyable. We had a planning session on Sunday and scheduled in our 15 hours of UA time for this week and we plan on implementing some of thier recommendations. I'm hopeful (ergo, 1HopefulGuy).

For us, we almost have to POJA what the "do nothing" state is. Example: Cell phones. We currently pay about $200-$250/month for our cell phone bill. I believe that we need to somehow cut this down to something around $100. I'm NOT enthusiastic about the way we have things set up (how many smartphones for us and our kids, the plan, the carrier, the add-on's, etc.) However, my W is NOT enthusiastic about giving up some of the services we currently have. So the question is: what is the "do nothing" stance? Drop everything and incur the early termination fees and have absolutely NO cell phones in our household? Neither of us really want that. But for my wife the "do nothing" position is to keep our current status quo: the $200+/month option. So in that case the "do nothing" position is causing me pain since I don't like paying that much per month. For us "doing nothing" is often a complex equation!



I have a problem with anxiety. It has ruined our marriage. I am tyring to learn to calm down in daily life...so calming down in stressful situations is almost Herculean for me. But you're right. Both of us need to learn and practice staying calm. This will likely be a lifetime undertaking for both of us.

Thanks for your advice.

Here is the article on how to do that:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html

Buy the meter Dr. Harley suggests and learn to use it.

It is important to realize the the "do nothing" state is not supposed to be the final state of any POJA negotiation. Are both of you enthusiastic about doing nothing? Probably not. The "do nothing" state is where you retreat to until you can arrive at a POJA resolution. Ending at the "do nothing" state is a negotiation failure. If you stop with the "do nothing" state, you probably aren't working hard enough on arriving at a mutually enthusiastic solution.

Have you reread the thoughtful request article? How about you all try a different plan for a month? Like for example drop to the least expensive plan your carrier has for a month and see how you like it. I think the problem is that you all see this stuff as permanent and none of it is. Then the next month try another plan you two like. You could probably save a lot of money switching to different plans testing them out until the termination fee. Then you can take your phone to a full service no contract carrier like Walmart family Mobile, $45 a month for the first phone and $25 a month after that. There are a number of no contract carriers you can try like that for a month each until you find one you both love.

If you can afford t-mobile, they have great plans