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21 posts and you are throwing in the towel?

Have you bothered to listen to Dr. Harley's radio show, or is that too much effort?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Did you stop looking at other women?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Who's the Other Woman?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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You're killing me here. I agree with Prisca, but just in case you've not been looking at other pastures for a while, don't you think you should be giving these hikes, strolls, and light work outs a little more than 6 weeks to make a judgement about whether your wife "deserves" your commitment? It really bothered me a while back when you pretty much presented yourself as a super good-looking man that deserves sympathy for the fact he is married to such an inferior-looking version of womanhood.

Anyway, a suggestion that can be implemented if she is willing. When I took a bodybuilding class for women many years ago, something happened within 2 months: My shoulders squared up and became just a little bit broader. This has been a change that is permanent. If the real problem is that her shoulders are too sloped and narrow compared to the rest of her body, then if she is willing to do dumbbell shoulder presses and work on lateral raises, then she is highly likely to improve her shoulder girth and improve her overall proportions and posture.




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Originally Posted by ETW
I read someone's comments that they knew that this approach worked for women to learn to find men attractive, but we're surprised to hear Dr. Hartley give this advise to a man and wondered if it would work.

But that person has no idea what he/she is talking about and is not a licensed psychologist who has long experience with this. Dr HARLEY said it would work. What are this other posters credentials? How many marriages has he/she saved?

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It didn't for me. I re-read my first entry, and I am still feeling the same way now.

Nothing will work because you don't want it to work.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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ETW:

I've had several cases like yours where a husband never did find his wife attractive, even when they were dating, but married her for a variety of reasons, usually because she was pregnant. My approach is to help her make as many Love Bank deposits as possible in ways that do not require physical attractiveness, mostly with recreational companionship. My standard assignment is for them to exercise together regularly, and to be together for all leisure and recreational activities. One husband who I counseled, and followed my plan even though he didn't think it would work, called me from his car one day to tell me that for the first time in his relationship with his wife, he was in love. He couldn't wait to be with her, and he found her to be very physically attractive.

While it's true that physical appearance can make massive Love Bank deposits with someone who is not in love, being in love can make an otherwise plain looking person look physically attractive.

So in summary, I would suggest that you focus your attention on exercising together (which would help shape her up), and don't do anything recreational without her. But when you exercise, avoid having other women, especially attractive women, exercising with you. And remember my cardinal rule: 15 hours of undivided attention every week spent in meeting the emotional needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship. I wouldn't tell her that you don't find her attractive, though. Instead, I would invite her to join you in these activities that you feel would bring you closer together.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705536#Post2705536


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting your wife get into bodybuilding. I took that class so I could get strong enough to pull open the glass doors at the university, not for bodybuilding per se. I only worked up to about 2 pound weights on the shoulders. It's not a sweaty workout I'm suggesting. This is just one, focused thing that could help in the PA area, while you read and reread what Dr. Harley and MelodyLane has posted to you.

It reminds me of a story I've told a few times. At a place where I worked a long time ago, the principle investigator was hiring for a new research assistant. He finally was about to chose one and wanted us to meet her before he made the final decision. We each and every one talked amongst ourselves about meeting her. We each and every one said the first thought we had "she is one of the ugliest people we had ever seen." We didn't tell the PI this for it had no bearing on whether she was qualified. What happened next for me was amazing. Over the next few months of working with her, her genuine care and positive personality, her work ethics and open faced smile turned her into one of the most beautiful persons I have ever met. I began to see the beauty in her face and form. I never even thought she was ugly after that: I just couldn't see any more that she was ugly. Mainly because she wasn't ugly.





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Okay, I've seen Dr. Harley's post to you now. You need to give it longer: you need to give it long enough to fall in love with your wife, and then see if you find her attractive.

And of course in order to do this, you need to avoid letting other women make love bank deposits. You need to eliminate the contrast effect.

If you don't take these steps, MelodyLane is right: nothing will work when you don't want it to work.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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In April you said: "We have spent time in recreation together, light work outs, hikes, and strolls."

It is now May.

You seem well versed in working out/athletics. You surely didn't expect light strolls for this short amount of time would have an effect on her appearance - so why are already saying it didn't work?

You're going to have to up the intensity of these joint activities, like registering for a mud run together (and training for) or a 10k, etc.

IF I WERE HER, and only do this with Dr. Harley's concurrence and assistance, I would want to know specifically that this was becoming a challenge for you so I could either up my workout intensity, try a shake or lo-carb program of some type or look into a liposuction (it's much cheaper than a divorce) rather than a spouse paternalistically assuming I couldn't "handle" the truth and destroying my children's stable home to protect my feelings.

I also wonder if her initial comment about looks being shallow is just what came out of her mouth because she was embarrassed, knowing it was something she could not fulfill - rather than being her actual opinion.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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One more thought, ETW. You wanted to "find what my heart is literally crying for each night as I fall to sleep."

No guarantees on the beautiful woman you find not being a whited sepulcher.

How would your heart cry out for companionship each night as you fell asleep with a beautiful shrew, possibly who distained your children on the weekend you had custody?

How would you feel about your children crying themselves to sleep across town each night for the daddy who wasn't there? When my sister's husband left her, their daughter cried every night for almost a year.

Greener grass doesn't always taste better.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Providing an update, and I would like to hear from a female perspective.

I am still not attracted to my wife physically. We have in fact grown together over the past year, and moreso since we started recreational activities together. But the closeness is a deep friendship and not passionate in a sexual or physical way. I can't seem to make myself find her attractive. For me, I was in a position where I was a bit trapped when I proposed, I knew she was not attractive enough to satisfy my need to have someone who makes me feel proud, not embarrassed.

So here is the question as I just learn to live with the consequences of my choice.

Ladies, if you knew your husband never found you attractive to the point he was 100% drawn to you in admiration of your look, would you be ok with a deep friendship where your husband does not chase you?

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ETW:

How would you feel about getting your testosterone checked?

How would you feel about emailing the radio show?


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Does your wife smile when you take her on dates?

So you don't finish your dates with SF? Instead you go without?

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Originally Posted by ETW
For me, I was in a position where I was a bit trapped when I proposed, I knew she was not attractive enough to satisfy my need to have someone who makes me feel proud, not embarrassed.

So here is the question as I just learn to live with the consequences of my choice.

I am way confused by your choice in using the word "trapped".

So you aren't proud to have your W on your arm. Is that a reflection of how other people view your W or how you believe other people view her? DJ. If she were really hot but a really horrible person to be around do you think then you�d be proud? You see hardly anyone is going to judge your W based on her looks especially if she is friendly and polite to them. Not everyone has a need for physical attractiveness and it shouldn�t matter to them as it is YOUR W we�re talking about.

This isn�t or shouldn�t be based on how other people view her or your perception of how others view her. This should be about how you feel about your physical attractiveness to her not your vanity.

As far as your question this isn�t about other ladies and how they�d feel. They can�t answer for her. This is all about how your W would feel if you asked her that question. Maybe she knows she isn�t the prize you want but she knows you love her and she loves you and she�s quite content to live a life of being close to someone without the physical attractions being there.



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Originally Posted by ETW
Providing an update, and I would like to hear from a female perspective.

...

Ladies, if you knew your husband never found you attractive to the point he was 100% drawn to you in admiration of your look, would you be ok with a deep friendship where your husband does not chase you?

That's not what we do here.

Are you following the actual plan to restore the feeling of romantic love in your marriage? 25-30 hours a week together meeting each other's most important emotional needs?

We are not here to help you learn to live with a bad situation. There is a defined plan here called Marriage Builders provided by clinical psychologist Dr. Willard Harley. What you need to do is restore romantic love to your marriage, then see what that does about the matter of physical attractiveness.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Do you have female friends?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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I do have one female friend, but I would not share this type of dialogue with her. I have never shared any of what is inside my head and how I feel with anyone outside of this anonymous forum.

I honestly think my wife and I do have a romantic love, just not a passionate one that involves my desiring her physically. We are like an older couple who are companions, not lovers. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that, I just wish I could turn off the primal side of my brain. Someone mentioned getting my testosterone checked. I had a physical done a while back and I guess I am actually on the high side, doc says that is a very good thing and that mostly he sees someone at my age with much lower free counts.

This just might be my burden to bear for this lifetime. I am honorable and would not cheat. I am smart and avoid the obvious come ons from strange women, and I am careful to avoid keeping women as friends. Maybe you women can pull it off, but I know it would certainly put me into harms way if I find them attractive.

I don't know if anything more can be done here, I don't think anyone here has an answer for me other than keep following the plan. We are and it keeps me and my wife close as friends, but I know at this point it won't make me see her face or body as beautiful. My head is just not wired that way.

I am surprised that on this site, there isn't at least one other guy in the same spot with something really helpful to say, even if it is just "deal with it, this is what you signed up for mate".


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Whenever i looked at or thought about my wife, it was only a small part of me that admired her physique. When she got dressed up, she definitely knew how to look appealing to my eyes. But, at night, falling asleep, none of that dress up abd makeup was there.

But what i always saw when i viewed her, was the woman who nearly passed out when i proposed to her, the partner who made my house into our Home, the pregnant woman who i went with to every baby doctors appointment, the kindness she had for our pets, the sweaty and exhausted wife who endured child birth, the best mommy our son could have ever dreamed of having, and most importantly, my wife.....My Partner For Life.

My passion for That Woman has never waned.

What else do you see when you view your wife?

LTL

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Well, ETW, I'm not sure what to say. I can't imagine dating and marrying someone that Ididn't was hot, beautiful, or attractive. I know that's not really helpful. But I also know that as you build a closer connection to someone, they do become more attractive

Last edited by kilted_thrower; 09/20/13 04:56 PM.

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Are you using porn?


Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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