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Here is the thing: the sooner he makes you his #1 priority, the sooner you are feel cherished and valued.

And BE SURE that his cell phone is turned off on your dates. The only phone calls either of you can take are from your babysitter who should only call if it is an emergency.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


indiegirl #2759331 10/09/13 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Can you give us an example of a touchy subject you discovered later? An example that can be used to explain what he should do in future?

A touchy subject to him is anything he feels I am going to be upset with. Like always working late and most of the time he would not even tell me until he was already 20 to 30 min late.
Then by the time he gets home he does not speak or make eye contact, he shuts down. He says it is because he knows I am upset and he afraid of what my reaction will be.



Example one thing is if he receives and email that should be shared with me and does not. And I find out later either by logging on to his email to look or someone else informs me about information that he shared with them instead of me.

So if those things continue how am I ever suppose to get the opportunity to be different, or show him I can be?


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skyrim #2759333 10/09/13 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
[

So if those things continue how am I ever suppose to get the opportunity to be different, or show him I can be?

Just keep reassuring him that you won't get angry and ask him to please start doing it.

Quote
A touchy subject to him is anything he feels I am going to be upset with. Like always working late and most of the time he would not even tell me until he was already 20 to 30 min late.
Then by the time he gets home he does not speak or make eye contact, he shuts down. He says it is because he knows I am upset and he afraid of what my reaction will be.



It would alleviate the stress in his life if he just called you and said he is going to be late. I can see that he is worried you will be mad at him, so he is thinking he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Will you tell him to come here and talk to me?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It would alleviate the stress in his life if he just called you and said he is going to be late. I can see that he is worried you will be mad at him, so he is thinking he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Will you tell him to come here and talk to me?

We did talk about it and I asked him if he could just let me know as soon as he knows, and we both agreed to it. It just does not seem to happen that way.

I will tell him do you want him to come here on my thread, because he has one of his own?


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skyrim #2759337 10/09/13 03:24 PM
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He can meet me on his thread. I will go make a post to him.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


skyrim #2759339 10/09/13 03:48 PM
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When he calls you to tell you he is going to be late will you PLEDGE to be uber pleasant? I can tell he is probably avoiding conflict and doesn't like to disappoint you. You need to help him change this habit. Will you do this?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I am not saying she can't describe her preferences. But if you or you husband would have continued with we should get this lettuce instead of negotiating you may not be where you are today.

That is my point. If she says he should... it can be the same thing as saying he should just get the lettuce you want.

It's a matter of he should or how would you feel about....

Maybe I am not saying this clearly.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
You can make respectful requests, not indicate that things SHOULD be done a certain way.

BUT, she should be telling him how it should done. If the goal is for them both to eliminate lovebusters and meet each others needs in a way that makes each other happy, she has to tell him HOW she wants that need met. Neither can leave each other guessing.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I am not saying she can't describe her preferences. But if you or you husband would have continued with we should get this lettuce instead of negotiating you may not be where you are today.

That is my point. If she says he should... it can be the same thing as saying he should just get the lettuce you want.

It's a matter of he should or how would you feel about....

Maybe I am not saying this clearly.

I had to state my preference about the lettuce and he had to state his. If we don't KNOW the others preference then we can't negotiate. As far as meeting her needs and avoiding lovebusters, it is very important that she guide him in that process. She has to show him how to meet her needs in the most effective way possible so he can become an expert at doing so. She has to tell him when he makes her unhappy.

Perhaps you are just saying that she shouldn't start off with "you should" and she is not doing that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


skyrim #2759360 10/09/13 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Can you give us an example of a touchy subject you discovered later? An example that can be used to explain what he should do in future?

A touchy subject to him is anything he feels I am going to be upset with. Like always working late and most of the time he would not even tell me until he was already 20 to 30 min late.
Then by the time he gets home he does not speak or make eye contact, he shuts down. He says it is because he knows I am upset and he afraid of what my reaction will be.
Looks like his actions are saying the same thing. He can't change until you change.

One of you has to break the cycle. Make it safe for him to deliver bad news. You are looking for improvement not perfection at this point.
Quote
Example one thing is if he receives and email that should be shared with me and does not. And I find out later either by logging on to his email to look or someone else informs me about information that he shared with them instead of me.

So if those things continue how am I ever suppose to get the opportunity to be different, or show him I can be?

What if he is saying the same thing? If she keeps getting angry, how can he show how he can be?

skyrim #2759415 10/10/13 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
Example one thing is if he receives and email that should be shared with me and does not. And I find out later either by logging on to his email to look or someone else informs me about information that he shared with them instead of me.


How about only using a joint email? Skyrimandjeger@aol.com? That you both receive on your phones at once?

Integrate your lives. If you have the same lives, same email, same experiences there will be fewer things he has to remember to tell you about.

Its good transparency too.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Actually, she said many times in her post that he's not doing what he should. I asked for clarification and made a conditional statement. I.E. If she's saying X, then she may be derailing her efforts.

Didn't say she was. Didn't say she wasn't. I asked for clarification via example.

Seems it's not as simple as he's not doing what he "should"

He doesn't call. But, is she getting angry when he does what she wants? Does he feel it's safe to deliver bad news? Is he just forgetting, hasn't learned the habit, or does he believe that calling is just a losing proposition and wants to postpone any pain associated with delivering bad news?

I don't know, that's why I ask.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I am not saying she can't describe her preferences. But if you or you husband would have continued with we should get this lettuce instead of negotiating you may not be where you are today.

That is my point. If she says he should... it can be the same thing as saying he should just get the lettuce you want.

It's a matter of he should or how would you feel about....

Maybe I am not saying this clearly.

I had to state my preference about the lettuce and he had to state his. If we don't KNOW the others preference then we can't negotiate. As far as meeting her needs and avoiding lovebusters, it is very important that she guide him in that process. She has to show him how to meet her needs in the most effective way possible so he can become an expert at doing so. She has to tell him when he makes her unhappy.

Perhaps you are just saying that she shouldn't start off with "you should" and she is not doing that.

Last edited by Enlightened_Ex; 10/10/13 10:52 AM.
skyrim #2759445 10/10/13 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
Example one thing is if he receives and email that should be shared with me and does not. And I find out later either by logging on to his email to look or someone else informs me about information that he shared with them instead of me.

Are there still females still emailing him "friendly" emails even now? Can you give example/s of what the emails say? I might have a suggestion on how to help resolve this. Indie's suggestion of a shared account is great.



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"Actually, she said many times in her post that he's not doing what he should. I asked for clarification and made a conditional statement. I.E. If she's saying X, then she may be derailing her efforts.

Didn't say she was. Didn't say she wasn't. I asked for clarification via example.

Seems it's not as simple as he's not doing what he "should""

Actually it is very simple. He should start calling her when he is late. He should stop gawking at females. Very cut and dry and very simple.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


indiegirl #2759456 10/10/13 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
Example one thing is if he receives and email that should be shared with me and does not. And I find out later either by logging on to his email to look or someone else informs me about information that he shared with them instead of me.


I like indiegirls idea of getting a joint account, but he wouldn't have to tell you what comes into his regulAr account if you just read everything yourself. Your way is not a reliable way to get information anyway. Lets just imagine he is having an affair. Do you think he would tell you about those emails? A better way is just snoop and confront him if you find something that is inappropriate. That way you avoid this game of "you didn't tell me about this."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
When he calls you to tell you he is going to be late will you PLEDGE to be uber pleasant? I can tell he is probably avoiding conflict and doesn't like to disappoint you. You need to help him change this habit. Will you do this?

I will do my best, I promise to give it all I have.


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I don't have a problem with a joint account. I can bring up the topic and see how he feels. MelodyLane I will probably continue to snoop for a while. Even with those things if he truly wanted to hide something I am sure he could, or he could even use his work email mail. But I hope to get past of even having those thoughts.


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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
One of you has to break the cycle.

You are right one of us does need to break the cycle.


Quote
What if he is saying the same thing? If she keeps getting angry, how can he show how he can be?

But in regards to the email example or the being late example, lets say I have explained to him my needs about these situations, and he explains to me how he needs me to react, and we enthusiastically agree on a plan. Now for reasons unknown he is going to be late, but never calls. What then? Neither one of us will know whether or not I was able to do my part, because I never had the opportunity to show him that I have changed that habit. That is why I said what I did about him never giving me the chance.


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SusieQ #2759499 10/10/13 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Are there still females still emailing him "friendly" emails even now? Can you give example/s of what the emails say? I might have a suggestion on how to help resolve this. Indie's suggestion of a shared account is great.

No more females that I know of. Except for the one we are having to work with about my wedding rings and diamond that where damaged while being cleaned at the jewelers when I took them for their inspection and routine cleaning. The contact person for that is a female. But the last email that he receive that he never shared with me was in regards to her an my ring situation. But it is everyday life situations and events like those that are never shared. So I only find out via someone else or me snooping.


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If he fails to call, then when he gets home, you calmly tell him that you know he gets busy at work but it hurts your feelings when he's going to be late and doesn't call or text and from now on to call or text you when he's going to be late. Leave it at that. This way you're calmly reinforcing your need. And your reaction will throw him off in a good way. It will leave a great impression on him.

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skyrim #2759515 10/10/13 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by skyrim
if he truly wanted to hide something I am sure he could, or he could even use his work email mail. But I hope to get past of even having those thoughts.


No I don't think you will. You're too smart and you know all things are possible. I know that my life experiences mean I sure will always be open to the possibility something untoward is happening.

However if he's consistent and open and using PoJA over time you will feel more reassured than you do right now. It will be a low level awareness rather than real anxiety.

Originally Posted by skyrim
But the last email that he receive that he never shared with me was in regards to her an my ring situation. But it is everyday life situations and events like those that are never shared. So I only find out via someone else or me snooping.


When he isn't responding or doing your requests in the way you would like, ask why not. A big part of PoJA is finding out the other person's perspective.


For example he isn't calling when he's late because when work is stressful, he gets forgetful. As a forgetful person myself, I know that it really helps when other people help me come up with ways to remember things. I kept leaving the house with the lights left on, so my mother suggested I put a little red symbol on the back of the front door to remind me.

I know that I wouldn't be up to remembering emails I'd received and passing that information on as well as some people would. I probably would not agree to do that under PoJA. This is why I suggested you simply view all emails through a joint account. Or read his. Another solution (if it's his memory)is for you to ask him if he got any emails, reminding him.

I'm not saying he's forgetful like I am. Just that you need to get at the reasons that are blocking him from a PoJA solution.

Assuming its because he 'didn't listen' is a DJ and blocks you from finding out the real reason.

When you get his reasons, go back to the drawing board and come up with a way to get what what you need, but which also takes his perspective into account.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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