I said I wouldn't post till Dr. Harley commented on my situation but I guess I will.

I am sorry SusieQ. I've tried to right this ship but I don't know what I can do. I'm frustrated. There's alot of negativity directed toward me (earned) and no matter what I say, it keeps coming back. I've said my piece, and I thought I said it earlier but I guess I missed the mark. Maybe this posting thing isn't for me.

If Dr. Harley says to delete FB, I expect she will. If he says she needs a new career or work at home, that will be hard to do immediately, but we'll work toward that goal. I'm excited to hear his suggestions.

I do not appreciate being told to SHUT UP, but that is your prerogative if you think I'm being disrespectful. I certainly would tell someone to shut up if I was disrespected. I mean no disrespect. It does bother me when I don't see the compassion I would expect if these were face-to-face communications. I guess that's hard to do on a forum.

Sugarcane, I do not wish to alienate another ally, let alone you. Your post kind of cuts to the quick. It is, and has always been the workplace. I have NEVER given up on trying to find workplace EPs. In fact, that's exactly what I asked for. We need the money and she likes the career. Right now I'm hanging my hat on O&H. She pretty much has to tell me of every OS interaction. I have to visit her workplace often. She has to accept a less than ideal job (another hospital) Where we live there are NO other options. She has been out of work for 6 months and we are bleeding. I bought a house (huge house) in the middle of the short affair. I'm so far underwater, it's not funny. She needs this job but is actively looking for something with lower likelihood of temptation. Does anyone have an idea what THAT would be? That's the kind of thing I need, so I certainly appreciate input.

I looked over this. I feel confident that I didn't say anything to offend. I did ask to not tell me to shut up, when I am expressing a valid fact that deleting FB would not prevent another affair, my scary reality. I'm sad that you cut my quote short when I also said I had no right to support another BS with MY ideas. Like I said, I was trying to right this sinking ship of a thread. It's doing way worse than my R. But that's what I want in the end so I guess I'll take what I can.

Fair Winds.

The "SHUT UP" was in a sentence that said "SHUT UP and listen". Surely you've heard that phrase and understand what it means. The point was that you should not do as you had been doing, contradicting posts from contributors who have studied and used this programme, written to Dr H, been on the radio show and enrolled in the online course. You are the one reeling from another affair and yet you felt entitled to tell other people who have been through repeat affairs that that their advice was off the mark and worse, to repeatedly contradict the MB advice being given to a new, desperate BS.

" She pretty much has to tell me of every OS interaction."

I'd just point out that a serial WS will lie to you about the OS interactions that she does not want you to know about. If she takes a fancy to someone at work and a mutual attraction develops, you might think she "has to" tell you about the interactions but, as any 3 year-old has the sense to do when she take the sweets and does not want to get in trouble, she will lie to you about what is going on at work.

Did she tell you the truth about her other affairs and infatuations when they were happening? Why would she tell you about a new one?

Apology accepted. Just don't blow up at me again and I will be more than happy to help you!

I will start here.

I also just recently read through your entire thread and it was clear to me that you don't understand what Dr Harley says about serial cheaters and how R needs to be handled as well as other issues such the SSL (secret second life).

So please take what SC is saying to heart. You need to stop talking and start listening because your M cannot survive any more affairs.

MM, having a serial cheating spouse promise to tell you all OS interactions will not protect your M.

My ex and I had this exact agreement. In fact, Jennifer Chalmers gave us this advice, not as an EP but as an exercise to help my WxH become more O&H and to help me feel more comfortable about what he was doing at work.

He enthusiastically agreed and was very good at following through for a while. He would come home from work and some time during the evening we would sit down together and he would tell me every single OS interaction that he had.

Slowly but surely he stopped having so much to tell me...and eventually he fell back into old habits (having a SSL) exactly like SC says, when there was an attraction to somebody.

What was Dr. Chalmers' suggestion to avoid a SSL at work? What did you do?

You are not going to like this but hopefully this will help you understand how important EPs are to your situation.

Dr Harley had an email on his radio show from someone trying to recover with a serial cheating WH and she had listed off all the EPs they were following, such as talking throughout the day, texting each other pictures of where they were, etc, etc, etc.

He said something, Well that sounds good but serial cheaters typically will hit rock bottom, agree to do anything to save the M and then slowly slip back and start resisting doing the things they had promised to do at first. He talked about a couple that was enrolled in his online program and he said the WW did exactly that -- was starting to do things she had promised not to do.

Dr Harley warned that this is normal for serial cheaters and re-emphasized the importance of creating a lifestyle where an affair would be next to impossible.

MM, this is exactly what happened in my situation. You could not have seen a more remorseful WS. He cried when he watched the infidelity videos and promised to do everything and anything to make this up to me. He told my BIL early in our R: I am more in love with SusieQ than ever!!

When I started to see signs of him slipping back into having a SSL life again (getting an email or text that made it clear he was doing things that he was not telling me about) we both called into the radio show and he improved again. When I started to see things that concerned me again, we enrolled in the online program. Again, things were improved and then started slipping off again. Then he had another affair.

Do you see how important lifestyle changes are? You MUST take EPs more seriously. We thought we were but there were many gaping holes left open - WxH had email, FB and the biggest one - a job that a serial cheater cannot have, one that has many opportunities for OS interaction.

You are making a grave error in allowing your W to return to work in the medical field. She shouldn't be working in a setting that would allow opportunities for OS interaction, never mind an environment that is RIPE for an affair.

Dr Harley specifically told me that many many affairs happen in the medical field. The nature of the work, long hours, men and women working together.

You say that you need the $$, but your M cannot survive another affair or "one sided EA" or crush which I think is inevitable for someone like your W, sorry to say. History has shown you that she is easily tempted over and over and over again. The answer is to not put her in an environment where there is temptation - not to trust that she will have willpower where she has not had it in the past.

One last point, for now:

I hope you realize that someone like your W and my ex, they aren't just incredibly attractive people that have people falling over them and they have just had bad luck being in the right place at the right time to have someone attractive lure them into these affairs.

They have developed a skill set (Dr Harley told me this specifically about my ex and I have heard him say it on other shows about serial cheaters). They are SKILLED at flirting and attracting members of the OS and it makes them feel great.

I saw that you were talking about how manipulative the OM was and were concerned that a doctor at her new job will hit on her. The truth of the matter is she is the problem. Not these men.

Is this your question?

Radio Clip of MindMonkey's question

Like I said I wasn't going to respond to my thread until Dr. Harley answered my question which he did today. Thanks BH but that was not my clip. I expect it to hit the archives in a few days.

I actually didn't even look at my thread since Friday. it was kind of bumming me out. I felt so good about my R and everyone was saying it was crap. Don't misunderstand, I see where everyone was coming from. It did appear I wasn't taking EP's seriously. I would do the same in your cases.

Dr. Harley didn't actually answer MY question. Joyce asked my WIFE to call in instead of ME. She jumped at the chance (to my surprise). She did a great job I think but she was "wierded out" by the sound of her own voice when she replayed it.

In summary:

1. They give us an "A" in recovery so far. Yeah us!
2. Dr. Harley 100% supports our EP's. We sent them our 10 EPs in email and they said they were great...if...big if...we made them part of a rigid change to our lifestyle (or something like that).
3. I CANNOT go on any more deployments/extended periods away from my W. Not happening. EVER. I've essentially "sunk" my career to protect my M, but it's worth it.
4. She CANNOT EVER have a single drink when I am not present. She should also consider not drinking at all. He implied that she may have some alcoholic tendencies but he didn't know enough to make that claim. I do, and she does kind of scare me when she has more than one drink. Her inhibitions go to ZERO. Almost a completely different person, and that's when both her EAs turned PA. When I (or good friends) are there to protect her, no problem, but if not...
5. She has to "be careful" on social media. His words but he amplified more on not sharing any personal information period, more than not having OS friends. I think she's done this already though. She hasn't posted since D-day. She has also deleted any OS contact that is not immediate family.
6. She has to ALWAYS tell me of ANY OS interaction. SusieQ, this is the one that scares me. Right now she is doing great, but I do fear that I will always be on her case about this one. Is there something that happened in your case that was a red flag I should look out for.

Dr. Harley didn't go into all the nitty gritty on the program but Joyce talked to my W for about an hour on Saturday. I'm amazed that she has that much time to dedicate to us with everything else she does. She mentioned "impulse control" but Dr. Harley didn't go in that direction.

Anyway, still digesting much of what was discussed. That man (and his better half) is a GENIUS.

I've got lots of questions to respond to so give me a few days. I really mean to keep my marriage on the right track so stay with me if I drift in and out of MB concepts. I'm still figuring this stuff out but LOVING the results.

I was talking about this radio clip, back in Sept. I thought they read your question on 9-16? No?

Brainy, his wife was on the program yesterday. "Brenda", I believe it was.

My question was answered on 9-16, but that wasn't it. I think Joyce referred to me as "Shaun", it was at the end.

That's so great that you got Dr Harley's advice on the radio show. I listened to it today and have a couple of questions.

1) Did your W's illicit FB messaging with exBF and multiple crushes and "onesided EA's" all also happen while you were on deployment?

2) Did you tell Dr Harley about the other times she had crossed the line or only about the two As (that was all I heard him mention)?

3) Did you tell Dr Harley that your W works in the medical field?

I was wondering this as well because it would help me answer some questions of my own.

Thank you for all the time you put into responding. I'll speak to a few of your statements.


Not surprising, he said the same thing to my wife yesterday (come on doesn't a FWW get some credit for calling in by herself). That's what he says...she has to prevent it and if it ever happens, time to think about other employment. Just the same, we have a plan for her to change jobs in a few months. It will still be in a hospital, but a military hospital. I've been in the military long enough to know that they have a very low tolerance for adultry (once it becomes public). So this should help out a bit. Plus, I outrank any of the nurses or doctors she would be working alongside. They would have to be pretty stupid to start anything with MY wife.


I'm sure I won't convince you of this, but we have. I have become the resident expert on when my wife is being honest. There is no way she could start a SSL without me knowing. As you may have heard on the radio show, the two times she created a SSL, I was either on deployment or on the other side of the planet for months at a time. It would be impossible for her to start one with me here.


I disagree that I am not taking them seriously. My wife would not have had the affairs if I was coming home every night. No one has to accept this as fact, but it's my reality. I am sending a formal letter to the military declining promotion. This means that my career is over and I won't be going away ever again. I have sunk my career. I believe that's pretty serious. I don't give two squats about FB or email, she can keep them or toss them but I've always preferred the "devil I know" over the one I don't.

I'm not dismissing any advice given in regard to EP's but I feel like we have a plan, endorsed by Dr. Harley. I would like to carry out that plan and continue to update my thread. There's so much more to recovery than EP's. I think we are done with that and working on the next steps. I reserve the right to revisit earlier steps, always on the lookout for those "gaping holes".

On a lighter note, Dr. H also told her to make sure I was "fitting the fantasy" the OM provided. She wrote me this while I was at work yesterday:

"And just in case you were wondering, you more than "fit the fantasy".
You blow it out of the water. (You'll understand once you listen). ;)"

Okay here it is.
Radio Clip of MindMonkey's question from 9-16

Thanks Brainy!! Did you ever address the AO issue that was discussed in that show, MM?

Also I can hear your frustration regarding not wanting to discuss EPs anymore, but I would still appreciate it if you would answer my above 3 questions. I really think it's important and I can explain why after you answer them.

Great questions:

1. Maybe I didn't acurately represent these claims, I don't want to go back in my thread to find the exact words. Alot was said when I was stewing in resentment.

- she didn't have an illicit conversation with old BF. He got drunk one night and sent a love note to her saying "she will always be the one that got away". She deleted that message so I don't know if I got all the details. I accused her of having poor boundaries or this guy would have never said such a thing. Still believe that.

- I found one message where she made a comical response to a workplace friend. She never deleted it because she didn't see anything wrong with it. I didn't until I found out about her A. She was going hiking in mixed company and a man asked her what size she was (referring to gloves). She answered 34D. That was the "elicit" message.

- multiple crushes happen whether or not I'm on deployment. They turn A when I am. i don't have problems with her developing a "crush", if she tells me about it. She's doing that now. I was surprised at all the names she gave me. As I fill her love bank, they will stop.

- one-sided EAs. What I call it when a "crush" turns into an "infatuation". They happen when I'm away not filling her $LB

2. Of the pages we both wrote, it was explained everything multiple times, he's one example:

"Currently she is not allowed ANY OS friends at all and we have blocked former affair partners and previous lovers from social media, email, and telephone. I also will not be deploying again, which I truly believe is the primary condition that led to the affairs. The other condition is the one I struggle with. In short, she likes men. She always has at least one or two workplace crushes. When I am deployed and cannot make love bank deposits even the smallest deposit from another man can put her over the romantic threshold. Even though I won�t be deploying again, I want her to learn how to better protect her love bank."

Joyce talked to her on this last weekend as well. She (Joyce) actually thought Dr. Harley was going to go in the direction of "impulse control" because of all these infatuations. I guess he goes where he goes. I think he expressed there was more to the problem then two affairs.

3. Yes. He really didn't seem to care about that detail. I don't know why...he's the Doctor. He determined the uniqueness of our situation and applied his vast knowledge to provide his valued assistance. It may have been pertinant in someone else's situation.