Don't get hung up on the word "forgive". ML posted what "forgiveness" means. It means you accept the deficiency that your husband created and that deficiency will continue to exist, forever. You don't want to do that. By accepting his just compensation you will likely have the same feelings you associate with forgiveness.

Other than that, your H really has to shore up his boundaries around women. You may take solace in the fact that this was only an EA (they do exist but are rare) and it was his first offense, but if you don't protect your M from another affair, it can happen again. Sadly, even if you meet his emotional needs. It happened to me. You don't need to go Attila the Hun on him, but he needs to provide you with a safe marriage.

I don't recall, have you considered a polygraph? They are easy and not too expensive ($400). If your H is being truthful, he should jump at the chance to clear any suspicions you have. I told my W, �I know your heart and trust what you have told me, but I feel this is something I need to close this horrible chapter of our life.� She was more than willing.

I have done a lot of reading on this site and others. I joined this site because I thought I could get some really good emotional support and advice.

Last night, I came to a conclusion that I wanted to share.

All men are NOT created equal.

You will probably call me naive or stupid or whatever you want to call me, but I do not believe that my husband is the typical cheater/adulterer/abuser as painted by many of you.

I believe that many of you are clouded by misjudgements of the worst kinds of WS out there. Every situation is unique and all BS have a story to tell. To follow the logic presented to me here, all men ARE created equal and every WS is the same. I just can't belive that.

Since my children were born and one was diagnosed with special needs, my husband encountered an enormous amount of stress. He was the primary care giver for our children while I worked days. He worked full time nights. Most days he got 2-3 hours of sleep MAX. The stress got to him and he began to shut me out. This created a depression in me and I began to shut him out as well. Prior to his emotional affair, we were merely shells of the people we once were.

Having a special needs child makes you abandon yourself and give everything to the child. That's exactly what we both did. We both became depressed, even tho we didn't show it to the kids and forgot to be the support system that each other needed.

When an old friend popped back into his life, my husband enjoyed the banter and conversation. It was an escape from his stress and reality. Unfortunately, the OW was in love with him. She had been for a long time and had her sights set on making him love her. She lives more than 24 hours away by car, 3 hours by flight. They were not in physical contact with each other. When she professed her love for him, he said, "yeah, love you, too." because he wanted to keep the conversations going. He admits that he wrongfully encouraged her affections because her words stroked his ego and made him feel good at a time when his wife (me) was not doing that for him.

He never loved her as more than a friend. When he finally did make the trip to visit her, he was experiencing a medical condition that would prevent him from having any sexual contact with her. He admits to kissing her, but that is all. I believe him because I personally saw the medical condition before and after his trip. That was the ONLY time they connected in person. Further, he was caught in his trip by me early on and it cut the trip short. You are all skeptical about his affair but I truly believe that there was no sex involved.

Upone his return home, he thought our marriage was over. When he learned that I wanted him to stay and work things out, he was happy, but still had trouble ending the EA. It was because he did not want to hurt her after all the lies he told her.

D Days. He ended the relationship with her a few times. Each time he tried, she came back with suicide threats, faked car accidents, and words of manipulation. These words upset him and drew him back twice. On the third attempt to end the relationship, he blocked all phone numbers to keep her from contacting us. She resorted to harassment of his family and mine. We took measures to prevent that by means of blackmail... threats to expose the affair to her loved ones. This stopped the harassment and we have not heard a word from her since. WH also destroyed all remnants of their relationship in front of my eyes... the letters, photos, and gifts.

This affair is different because there was no way a physical affair could have been conducted. You can believe I am naive, but I would know if he visited her and there is no way she could have come here without my knowledge. If I was not with him, he was with my kids and they would tell me. It's that easy. Further, I know my husband. I know his ways, I know his guilty conscience, I know how BAD he is at covering his tracks. It was EASY for me to dig up the details of this EA as it was unfolding.

He is truly sorry. He has taken steps to make ammends. He is actively working on making things right. I stand by my earlier claim that we are in recovery mode because I have forgiven him and I'm not going to take that forgiveness back... even if you all think I should. My God forgave me for the darkest of my sins in my life and I need to live for HIM as an example of his grace and mercy. I WILL forgive and have forgiven. That particular piece of the puzzle is non-negotiable for me.

At this point, I have had many many many many discussions with my WH. I know he is sincerely sorry for what he has done. I know his heart. I know that this is out of character for him. I know that he is going through detox from this short lived addiction. I have seen his mood changes but the constant that has not changed is his desire to to what is right by me and our children. He has not contacted the OW. He will not contact her again. I have confidence in that. He has deleted his email account, his FB page, and has changed phone numbers for his cell and home. He has put in a request with his employer that he cannot receive phone calls at work. I believe that these measures will aid him in his effort to have zero contact with OW.

We are in marriage counceling through a licensend Rev. from my church and have family counceling for us and the kids as we recover. We have an action plan in place to recover and rebuild the marriage. I am pleased with our progress.

I know he loves me. I love him. I know we have a lot of work to do. I know that he will not do this again, I can tell.

I know you will all think I am being weak. I know you think I'm being naive. I know you don't agree with my course of action. But I'm a "stand by your man" kind of gal. I don't want to scare him or chase him away. I want him to stay. He wants to stay. I can't do this alone. I know that. But that's why I have HIM. We are going to get through this together.

I know you don't think we will succeed. But I know we will. I have faith. We will be a success story. I know that.

Indeed my definition of forgiveness is different. To me, forgiveness means I will not dwell on the mistakes that have been made, but move forward. I recognize that there is NO WAY for him to fully repay me for his actions. He screwed up. BIG TIME. He knows it. He wants to move forward. I feel like I have gotten all of the details about the EA that I needed and that I am ready to move forward. He has let go of the EA, forgives me for my role in his unhappiness, and is ready to move forward as well.
Forgiveness, to me, does not mean forgetting or failing to put a plan in action. WH has acknowledged that boundaries must be put in place. We have done that. Female friends are OFF LIMITS aside from a few pre-approved friendships. In other words, he can remain friends with our MUTUAL friends who are female, but cannot carry out those friendships without me involved. Those female friends are in on the agreement and know that communication between them without my participation is off limits. I must be present. Phone records, emails, everything will be monitored closely. His FB page has been turned off. We have set hard limits that must be followed.
I believe that there has been sufficient closure to his relationship with the OW. We are ready to move on. Why is it that no one seems to think we are on this forum? My family, his family, and our therapists all seem to think that we are on the right track to recovery.
Is it wrong to love him unconditionally? I cannot share him. He knows that any further transgressions will result in PLAN B. So, why does it seem that no one wants me to move forward into recovery/rebuilding?

Thanks BB. I just want you to know that you just described about 99% of wayward spouses. Your husband is the rule, not the exception. Most people who have affairs are good people who, because of life's problems and poor boundaries, find themselves right smack in the middle of a torrid addiction to an affair partner. That is what happened to your husband. We would all agree he is a good guy and we are giving advice on that basis.

Be assured we are not comparing your husband to the "worst. " The "worst would be the ones who are out looking for it and/or the serial cheaters. They are the vast minority and I would place them at under 5%.

We believe you when you say your husband is a good guy. We want to help you help him be a good guy again by driving this affair out of your lives.

As far as "clouded judgment," who would you say is the least objective person on this thread? The rest of us are not hampered with the extreme emotions that you are experiencing. It is only natural that such a traumatic event would affect your emotions.

In short, we want you to have a great marriage like we have.

"Is it wrong to love him unconditionally? I cannot share him. He knows that any further transgressions will result in PLAN B. So, why does it seem that no one wants me to move forward into recovery/rebuilding?"

But if you love him "unconditionally" then you would tolerate any and all abuse. You would not go to PLan B.

We are trying to guide you into recovery. Unconditional love and unwarranted forgiveness will not bring you recovery, it will bring you more neglect and abuse.

Would you like to recover your marriage?

Some good food for thought here:

What�s Wrong with Unconditional Love
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.


The Today Show on NBC has been airing a wedding feature lately where a couple has all of their wedding expenses covered�if they�re willing to let all of the wedding preparations, and the wedding itself, be televised. I happened to watch one of the weddings yesterday, and I noticed something that I�ve seen in most weddings: The bride and groom promised to love each other unconditionally.

Before I launch into an analysis of this common promise, and highly promoted goal for marriage, let me take you back to the wedding vows that my wife, Joyce, and I were to recite to each other: �I promise to love you in joy and in sorrow, plenty and want, sickness and health, as long as we both shall live.� I remembered it correctly when it was my turn. But Joyce didn�t. Instead, she said, �I promise to love you in joy and in plenty, in health and in wealth as long as we both shall live.� She claimed that It was an honest mistake, but it sure has kept me on my toes. Any downturn in fortune, and I�m not sure what she�ll do.

But the vows that I made to Joyce were not for unconditional love. My vows were that I would care for her regardless of conditions beyond our control. For example, I didn�t promise to love and care for her if she divorced me. And that would have been only one of a host of decisions by her that would have ended my commitment, as it should be.

So let me explain to you what unconditional love in marriage is, and then we�ll see whether or not it makes any sense to promise such a thing at a wedding. Let�s begin by taking the phrase apart, looking at each word critically.

�Unconditional� means that there are no prerequisites or contingencies to the promise. The promise of love is to be made regardless of all circumstances, including what the other person chooses to do. There should be no confusion regarding its meaning.

�Love,� however, is a different matter, and I�ve seen many different ways to define it. I define love as applied to marriage in two ways: (1) romantic love which is the feeling of incredible attraction to someone and (2) caring love which is meeting someone�s needs. When you�re in love, you feel something, and when you care, you do something.

I have specifically eliminated a third definition of love that is widely expressed: Wishing someone the best in life. When someone says �I love everyone,� that�s usually what they mean. And that kind of love can reasonably be given unconditionally. Personally, I want everyone to be happy, and no one to suffer regardless of what they�ve done to me or others. If that�s what�s meant by unconditional love at a wedding, I have no problem with it.

But in that context, the wedding vow could be offered to the audience as well as the bride and groom. Using this meaning of love at a wedding, doesn�t make much sense because it doesn�t offer a unique promise.

My definitions of love makes the spouse very unique, but the promise itself very conditional. If I promise to be incredibly attracted to Joyce, and to meet her emotional needs for the rest of our lives together, it doesn�t make sense if there are no conditions attached.

Romantic love, my first definition of love, is created when someone makes massive Love Bank deposits by meeting important emotional needs. When an account is high enough to breach the romantic love threshold, a feeling of incredible attraction is reached. If those deposits continue, and withdrawals don�t threaten to reduce the balance significantly, romantic love is experienced indefinitely. I�ve been in love with Joyce for the entire 46 years that we�ve been married because she�s kept her account in the stratosphere.

If I had promised to be in love with Joyce unconditionally, I would have failed to understand how romantic love is created and destroyed. It�s not what I do that causes me to be in love with Joyce�it�s what she does. So I can only promise to be in love with her if she meets my important emotional needs, and avoids hurting me. I have nothing to do with it, except to give her an opportunity to make those deposits.

My second definition of love, caring love, makes unconditional love seem possible. Technically, I could try to meet my wife�s emotional needs without condition. But could I do it indefinitely, and would it be a good idea?

Let�s take a few examples. Suppose a wife were to have an affair, divorce her husband, and marry her lover. Should her ex-husband continue supporting her financially if they had no children together? Should he provide the same support that he would if they were married? Should he be there to help her through life�s struggles? Some who believe in unconditional love feel that he should.

Or, suppose a husband sexually molested their children and ended up in prison. Should his wife continue to meet his emotional needs during conjugal visits? Some who believe in unconditional love think that she should.

What if a husband were to beat his wife senseless in a fit of drunken rage? Should she continue to meet his emotional needs? I once counseled a couple where the husband tried to kill his wife three times. After his last effort he buried her in a shallow grave because he thought she was dead. But she managed to recover, dig herself free, and crawl for help. Should she give him another chance? Should she meet his emotional needs for the rest of his life? The elders of her church thought she should because they believed in unconditional love. After I encouraged her to divorce her husband, they never referred anyone to me again.

I believe that a couple in a marital relationship should meet each other�s important emotional needs, and avoid hurting each other. That should be their promise to each other on the day of their wedding. If they keep their promise, they�ll be in love with each other throughout their marriage, just like Joyce and me. But if one violates that commitment, should the other be held to it?

I�ve heard almost every argument in favor of unconditional love, and I�ve found that the argument that is the most difficult for me to refute is religious. While this argument has been made by advocates of many different religions, I�ll focus on the Christian argument because that�s the faith that I endorse.

The argument goes something like this: We should love our spouses unconditionally because Jesus Christ loves us unconditionally. Even if it�s not safe or practical to do so (as with infidelity, physical abuse, or divorce) we should love unconditionally out of obedience to God. While I certainly encourage being in obedience to God, I can�t find any text from the Christian Bible that suggests that conclusion.

The phrase, �unconditional love� is found nowhere in Scripture. We read �For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life� (John 3:16). Those who encourage us to love unconditionally take this to mean that God loves us all unconditionally. But if that�s true, it must be my third meaning of the word, love�he wishes us the best in life. That�s because the verse goes on to explain that we must do something to save ourselves. According to this verse, we must meet his conditions to be saved. Specifically, we must believe in Jesus Christ. Since the vast majority of the human race does not believe in Jesus, we must assume from this verse and others that while God may love the world and would like them to be saved, most of humanity will not meet the conditions. A faith in Jesus Christ is required.

The concept of salvation itself is expressed in many different ways in various texts, but it always comes with a condition. It�s never suggested that salvation comes with no strings attached. As one example, �If you confess with your mouth, �Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved� (Romans 10:9). And making Christ lord of your life is not a trivial condition.

Just as our relationship with God is bilateral, where we must both fulfill our commitment for the relationship to function, our marital relationship is also bilateral. A successful marriage is one where both husband and wife care for each other by meeting each other�s important emotional needs, and avoid hurting each other.

So if there�s no religious reason to give or receive unconditional love in marriage, we�re left with practical reasons. And I know of none. If Joyce were to tell me that she loves me unconditionally, and were to mean by that that she�ll meet my emotional needs regardless of how I treat her, I wouldn�t be very motivated to treat her with utmost care. I could get away with anything, knowing that she�d be there to pick up the pieces. There are many that I counsel that expect to be cared for unconditionally after an affair, abuse, and even attempted murder. After all, it was promised at the time of their wedding.

My job as a marriage counselor is to encourage both spouses to meet each other�s emotional needs, and avoid hurting each other. When they follow my advice, they fall in love and stay in love. But one spouse can�t do the job alone. They must work together to build a successful marriage. Neither should promise unconditional love because a great marriage is a joint effort with many conditions.

Since this is such a hot topic, I welcome your comments and questions. I may continue discussing this issue in this newsletter if there�s enough interest. Please send your comments to me at: ideas@marriagebuilders.com

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

**EDIT**

So, don't take it personal that you aren't getting the help you think you need. I assure you, you are getting the help you actually need.

We just want to see you succeed in taking full measure to protect your marriage from another affair or from the affair going underground. Please read this thread False Recovery - Voices of Experience , many people post about what happens when corners are cut, sins are unjustly forgiven, and hope is high.

~RQ

"Here's the thing. This isn't just a marriage building forum. Posters are REQUIRED to give advice and counsel based completely on Dr. Harley's books and teachings"

What in the world do you mean??? I am required to do no such thing! I am a volunteer here. I help people with MB concepts ONLY because it works. IT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS.

I have been here for 12 years ONLY because I know it works when you don't cut corners. The people who cut corners end up in false recoveries. I am In a happy recovered marriage ONLY because I followed the program.

Don't insult me by saying I am only posting MB concepts because I am forced to. I am NOT forced to post anything.

As for the polygraph: WH actually offered to get a polygraph before I could even suggest it. He wants to do all he can to make things right.

Melodylane, I think MM is referring to the mods' note "that the purpose of our board is to assist posters with Marriage Builders concepts, it is not to mislead others with personal philosophies. If you can help in this regard, feel free to post. Otherwise, please refrain from posting."

Not anything personal towards you.

Just FYI that waywards will appear very willing to take a poly - in the hopes that you won't follow through. My ex did this. I didn't follow through. Dday in 2011, he again appeared very willing to do this. When I handed him the questions and told him it was booked, it was a different story.

So what I am saying is, the willingness doesn't mean much. You have to go follow through with the poly. Ok? Trust me on this.

x2!

Some WSs will still appear willing after it has been booked and the Qs are handed over. They will trickle truth you and swear on a stack of bibles that you NOW have the entire truth and again hope you won't follow through. I have seen this many times on the forums. Don't back down, BB.

Agree x 100.

Many BSs have a horrible blind spot when it comes to their WS. They really don't want to believe their spouse is just like any other WS and focus on details that don't really change the big picture.

The problem is that BSs who have this blind spot are the ones who also end up cutting corners when it comes to affair-proofing the M. We see it time and again here. Nobody wants to see you end up in a FR. That hurts MORE than the original A does and decreases the chances that you will be able to turn things around. OK?

Hang in there, BB.

I'm sorry... what is "FR?"

"false recovery"

False recovery - in that link I posted

Absolutely. I believe in the concepts of Dr. Harley. It seems like some people just want to be supported in whatever idea they come up with (I have the T-shirt). That's not what MB is about. It's about helping people follow through on the tried (and true) concepts of Dr. Harley's experience and research.

Really, trust her on this. Best decision of my life. I can actually sleep knowing that I know the facts of MY life. You will get a different story every day leading to the poly. Follow through. If he is as open as you think (and I hope he is), it will just be another "day at the office". If you get any indication that he regrets his decision to follow though ("I can't believe you don't trust me"), you know what you're dealing with. Otherwise, the poly will just confirm what you thought you knew (like in my case). But you'll sleep better.