I need any advice I can get because I just don't know what to do anymore. My husband and I separated 4 months ago after the past 3 years being a very horrible state of our marriage. We'd sit and talk about things that needed to be fixed on both our ends, both agreeing but never really putting much effort to fix the issues. We never tried counseling. Then he started talking to someone. He moved out in June and then the relationship with her became physical. What kills he "ended" it with her in July and then again in late August (twice thinking they could be the friends they were but her pulling him back in). Then in September he called me saying he wanted to work on us and I recently found out a few weeks after that he started seeing her AGAIN.

I gave him the ultimatum last weekend. Choose her and have a life of nothing (because she is married and will never leave her husband. She supposedly even told him that she loves her life with her husband and won't leave it) or choose to work on his marriage with his wife and have his family (we have a young son), because I can not "work" on our marriage, sleep there once-three times a week, have sex with him, help him study for school, etc etc if he's not working on the marriage. I pretty much cut out all communication with him the past week, the few times we've talked and about it, he's told me I'm 100% correct that it needs to be over, but he has a hard time saying goodbye to the friendship because she's the only one that knows about our separation. He doesn't talk to his friends and barely anyone in his family. He says he'll fee alone even more than he already is because she was there to listen to it all when he was going through the decision to leave. I reminded him that he wouldn't be loosing but gaining. He'd have his family there and his wife. He'd have someone who'd be there (me) for him to support him daily, to help with everything he needs rather than a once a week fling that's destroying everything.

He's agreed he's afraid that things will go back to the hell they were before we separated, I reminded him it tasks trust, faith and a lot of hard work. He's seen the changes I've made on some of the issues over the past 4 months. I just don't know what I'm doing. Is it right for him to be feeling this way and still confused? To me it's a no brainer~ choose a life of being someone's back up plan and once a week screw or chose your family (and our poor son has so enjoyed seeing us happy and loving towards one another~ he's never seen us like that).

So I'm confused, so truly confused about why and how he can still be having difficulties. Is it because he doesn't give a [censored], wants to find a way to have us both, or just is so lost hes so confused.

Help!

Hi Patty, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. The most potent weapon you have in saving your marriage is exposure. Has the affair been exposed to everyone? Have you informed the OW's husband and her the rest of her family? What about all your family and friends?

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only serves to enable it. At your expense!

Please go read the thread linked in my signature. Here is a quote from Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders

Thank you for replying. I know it is possible to revive and save our marriage. I just don't understand how he doesn't see that. All he says is "I left in June for a reason" I get that. That has NOTHING to do with now though. You left before because stuff was BAD, now you continued to be physical with someone you said you ended physical contact with because you wanted to work on our marriage, but then I find out a month later that it was all just a lie and you went back to her in that way.

I have not exposed it much. I mean his father knows about her, but told him he needs to make a choice that will make him happy (yet here he is not choosing and being miserable), her husband knows (but like I said I think she just plays mind games and doesn't care who the heck she hurts, she's just selfish and wants her needs met), a bunch of our mutual friends from my side know, a few of his friends know that he started seeing someone when we separated.

I just don't understand~ is he truly just that confused? I get affairs start because something was lacking an it started as a friendship to feel appreciated but then evolved into intimate relations when he moved out, but what the heck is going on now. I understood when he first left because we were both free to do whatever until a decision was reached. I for one NEVER thought of dating because my ultimate goal has always been reconciliation. Even now, heck I just joined a dating site and almost threw up from crying when I saw matches because I'm not ready for that~ I just want my family and husband.

But I don't know what to do~~ He says he needs time to cut her out completely because they developed such a friendship and he loves her. Is it all just a bunch of crap?!?!? I gave him the ultimatum last weekend and there's days where he's like "you're right" and then days like today where he's like "I'm having difficulties ending it with her." Am I just continuing to let him play me or is he really just so messed up and confused?

I rarely have talked to him this week at all. We had a one hour conversation wednesday where he said he thought we made progress and I reminded him there is NO progress on us till she's gone.

This is where I would start. Expose the affair in a strategic, methodical manner as outlined in my exposure thread. Does the OW have a facebook page?

And how many times have you spoken to the OW's husband to exchange information/intel? Have you spoken to the OW's parents?

Yes.

Yes, and yes. Your husband is doing what's known as "cake-eating", that is, having his cake & eating it too (in the form of two women). And as long as you tolerate it & keep giving him running-room to go back & forth, you're letting him play you.

Being that affairs are a form of addiction (the brain-chemistry impact of an infatuation is quite smiilar to that of highly-addictive drugs), he's getting a fix from the admiration & attention & the sex & conversation & whatever else he's getting from her. And since he's getting that fix, he's going to have a very hard time breaking it off on his own, unless something intervenes such that the adverse consequences, for him, of his continuing in the affair are worse than the adverse consequences (as he perceives them) of ending the affair.

If you'd given him an ultimatum that had any teeth, you wouldn't be still talking to him after knowing that he still talks to her.

Have a glance down at the deal my wife gave me on the day I confessed my affair to her -- in the very next breath after she'd told me that she'd forgive me. 2nd quote below, in red text. I knew she was serious, and in saying what she said, she showed me some steel resolve that I could only respect. Your husband doesn't think you're serious, and won't until you show some steel resolve that he'll have no choice but to respect, if he wants to be at all respectable again sometime.

Patty, what you need to do here is to give your husband not really an ultimatum, but a choice, and give him one more day to make it. You shouldn't look at it as an ultimatum that you're giving him. Rather, you're giving him an opportunity to decide. You tell him that your condition for working on this marriage that you want to help save is that he respect your need for him not to be seeing two women, by ending his affair and ceasing all contact with her permanently, so that you both can be all-in on trying to save the marriage & make it better than it was before the infidelity. (Because the only way marriage-recovery from infidelity can really work well is if you're both all-in.) And you tell him that if he chooses not to be all-in, then he needs to take his things and get out by sundown. And then you go to what's known as Plan B. (Do a "search" and read on this site about what Plan B entails.)

Because, Patty, he has jerked you around long enough. He is not challenging himself seriously to end his affair, and the only chance it'll end now is if he realizes that he's about to cut his last line to you, forever. That realization has to hit him square between the eyes.

Now, it might bring him to his senses, or he might be such a bumhole that he elects to stay in the affair -- in which case, you'll be better off without him anyway. You have nothing to lose here, because as far as you're concerned, he's already gone, as long as he stays in his affair.

P.S. -- Wow. I am sorry for the situation you're in. What an ethical cipher your father-in-law is. It's not enough that his son is two-timing you & he's OK with that. Your hubs is going after someone else's wife in the process, and your father-in-law also thinks that's just dandy, too, as long as it makes his son happy? Have you spoken with him directly to ascertain that this is how he feels, or are you getting this via your husband? (I just hafta ask b/c it's so hard to believe.)

If that's really how FIL feels, then I were you, I would keep this POS father-in-law of yours the heck away from YOUR son to the greatest extent possible, because that's no kind of person whom I'd ever want my child to be around.

You are in a very tough spot with in-laws who condone home-wrecking. If I were you, I would cut them out of the picture, even if you & your husband get back together, until they grow a moral compass & apologize. I would not leave my child alone with such a "grandfather." No telling what a man like that will 'teach' your son.

Yes. He keeps going back because he's addicted to OW crack. Just like a junkie. You need to kill this affair and he needs to cut the cancer out of his life forever. Nothing less will do.

Oh and get rid of the online dating profile. Save that for well after Plan D.

"I have not exposed it much. I mean his father knows about her, but told him he needs to make a choice that will make him happy (yet here he is not choosing and being miserable"

Did his father really say something so uncaring or is this what your husband told you he said? Have you spoken to his parents personally? Is his dad also an adulterer?

Rather, you're giving him an opportunity to decide. You tell him that your condition for working on this marriage that you want to help save is that he respect your need for him not to be seeing two women, by ending his affair and ceasing all contact with her permanently, so that you both can be all-in on trying to save the marriage & make it better than it was before the infidelity. (Because the only way marriage-recovery from infidelity can really work well is if you're both all-in.) And you tell him that if he chooses not to be all-in, then he needs to take his things and get out by sundown.


In response to that~ he's been gone since June. Living on his own while I am at my parents with our son till I can afford a place on my own. Now I have made ALL those points and really haven't talked to him since Last sunday, unless it involved our son (ignored all other texts, etc) this occurred today because he wanted to talk and I thought maybe just maybe he'd say he was done because when we met to exchange our son this morning he looked sad and depressed. I have told him numerous times that there will be NO sex between us, NO visits to his house, NO daily chit chat, NO ANYTHING unless it involves our son until she's GONE! So how long do I wait for him to make a choice. I feel it's pretty easy, but maybe I just don't get how messed up in the head he really is over it....

Patty, Dr Harley would tell you to do 2 things: expose his affair to everyone and go into Plan B. Plan B is a completely dark separation where you have absolutely no contact with him. None.

But first you should expose his affair. You can't afford to skip that step.

In regards to my FIL he's always said "we love your wife, but if you're ultimately not happy in your marriage and you don't think it's worth saving do what you have to do." Best part is we've never done everything that could be done. We never did counseling. It just go SO bad that one of us had to go, though his was partly leave to fix and leave to be done I think.

I just don't know what else to do. It's so freaking hard. I did just tell one of our friends on facebook because she commented on something he put up and then it was erased (I thought it was about us, but it was about OW) so this friend now knows we've been living apart for 5 months and he's been seeing this woman an month after he said he wanted to work on our marriage.

Did you read our posts about exposure? It seems you are ignoring everything we have advised you to do. Is there a reason you are ignoring us?

We have told you what to do and it doesn't seem you are listening.

Thank you MelodyLane

I am contemplating telling everyone NOW, maybe that is what needs to happen. Him not to just realize that he's being stupid on his own. As for Plan B, I don't know if I could go COMPLETELY dark as we have a son and he has him one night a week and every other weekend (so unfortunately every other weekend I need to see him to pick my son up), but I can do it without speaking.

No I am not ignoring the comments about exposure, I have just told one of his friends just a few hours ago and exposed it more to a few more of my mutual friends that did not know. I am unfortunately not able to be digging up contact numbers for the OW husband to call him as I have to take care of my son who is every few minutes causing me to get up and do something.

You can go into Plan B and never see or speak to him if you have an intermediary. We have spouses with infants who do this. To goal is not just to not speak to him [he can speak to you!] but to not SEE him at all or have any contact whatsoever with him.

And yes, you should tell everyone NOW if you are serious about saving your marriage. If you won't do that, there is nothing we can for you. It is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler.

But do it RIGHT. And do it strategically. Go read my exposure thread and do it that way.

Patty, I URGE you to listen to this advice and follow the plan EXACTLY. Your plan will fail. I know from experience because my WW has been having an A for 3.5 years and has most recently been living with the OW for the past 4.5 months.

I was uncomfortable implementing some of the techniques (complete exposure, deep dark Plan B, Plan B letter, etc.) and as a result I unknowingly enabled the A to continue and deepen.

I still want to R my M, but have contacted a lawyer about filing for divorce (I recently sent Plan B letter, completed full exposure and am deep into Plan B). I wish I would have implemented these techniques as soon as I found out about the A. I was too afraid and listened to the lies my WW told me (she's just a friend, she makes me feel good why would you want to take that away, I'm confused, I'm stuck emotionally, I hope our relationship is not over, I still think of coming home, blah, blah, blah). My WW has continued to cake eat for 3.5 years while I sit waiting for her to return home.

Fear keeps us from doing what needs to be done. Swift action is needed if you want results (or you can keep doing what you have been doing and you will keep getting the same results). Heed the advice, you will be grateful you did. The veterans on this forum really know what they are talking about.

Do you know for a fact that he has only started this affair sso recently?
because moving out reeks of an affair. This may have gone on longer than you think.
If the affair has been going on for longer, this may be the reason why the marriage was so bad (was it?).

Can you access cal logs? If you can find out OW's telephone number you may be able to do a reverse lookup and find out her name. You can also confirm when he started calling her. You may have to ask someone else to help you take care of your child, while you make an effort to save your marriage.