Wow that is about the most un-apologetic apology I have heard in a long time, and I ought to know, having given plenty of them. Sure he is frustrated because his efforts didn't seem to make much difference, but his account was apparently very deep in the red. He doesn't have a concept of how bad this hurts you. Have you been able to explain to him that if it feels abusive to you, then it IS abuse?

Melody Lane he does care a lot about me and kids but he doesn't "see" solutions to our problems.

I also hesitate to be honest with him about how I feel but have been much better about this since coming here. I prefer peace at all costs so he is not really used to me making waves.

I will approach him with these three things: love busters, radio clip and anger mgmt and see what he says.

"Thanks for your response. Yes I have explained that before to him. That what matters is how I feel. He has become better at validating my feelings throughout the marriage but still finds that a difficult concept to grasp. "

Dr Harley says that if he could, he would make spouses feel exactly what the OTHER one feels, when they do something. I think he called it an "empathy pill" or something. I think this concept may be a little harder for men in general to grasp, but overall human nature is to assume that others feel exactly the way we think they do.

I will read him love busters if he lets me. Would be easier first step than requesting anger mgmt. right off the bat.

Ok he will listen to both my radio clip and the love busters segment if I read it. I also brought up anger mgmt and he is nervous about it but did not say no. Just that it might be hard to find the time.

Sure I swear a lot and I called you bitchy but never thought that was abuse.

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't get pouty and I didn't get mad at him for getting mad as I sometimes do ( working on it). It's a relief to know I don't need to apologize. The more I think of it he was probably at the end of his rope with kids up too late etc. just looking forward to sitting down to relax and his mixed drink gets spilled.probably the straw that broke the camels back.

We are in a unique situation right now living in parents basement while we build a house. He is gone every evening and weekend working on it so I don't feel we can do the one- on-one time that is the foundation of marriage builders so I haven't really broached the program with DH. Just a comment here and there. When he is home ( after kids are in bed)we sit on the couch - him with gaming, me surfing the net. Hmm i guess we do have some time to work with.Fine with this arrangement until lately thinking I need more emotional intimacy with him.

His angry outbursts have lessened over the years.He doesn't get angry at me so much as the kids. If the oldest isn't listening he might use one hand to push her once in the right direction and he yells more than me. I usually call him on these things and let the kids know that it's not ok to yell or push or whatever. Since his little dtr has asked him not to yell he has done much better with AO's. His temper was a main reason I refused to allow spanking as a form of discipline.

His worst AO was last summer after vacation and I still get angry thinking about how vulnerable i felt. He was so irrational. Driving home getting more and more upset with traffic them our oldest barfed and he would not stop to get her cleaned up. I forced the issue and he had a tirade in the gas station parking lot. Throwing car seats on the pavement and yelling. He doesn't remember it really and thought about anger mgmt after. The worst part for me is that while kids were in the bathroom I tried to tell them calmly that daddy's mad but wasnt behaving right and my son ( who himself has a temper) said yes daddy can act like that cause he is mad.He said afterwards he felt much better after to which I responded " well I feel much worse"He did apologize eventually but it's frustrating that he doesn't really know how awful he was.
have you read the chapter in Lovebusters on Anger? It talks about this very thing. How cunning and deceitful anger is. He was actually extremely dangerous to all of you and you really should have called the police. If it happens again... do not hesitate. Throwing car seats and yelling IS considered Assault by police.
So, no, brainhurts he doesnt have a plan currently to address AO's. Maybe I can get him to listen to those radio links. I'm quite sure he doesn't consider it to be a problem right now.

My family loves him and feel we have a really open, honest way of communicating but I have trouble being vulnerable with him. I excused it away as " keeping the mystery alive" but I don't really give myself completely to him. Maybe have put up defenses to keep from wanting too much which would lead to conflict( which I hate).

I will go print out EN form now and see if he can find some time to complete it with me.

I'm trying to understand for the sake of Mae and myself. I read this thread from the beginning but I haven't seen very much of the more experienced MB members talking about Mae working on her side of the fence? When Markos had is AO problem, I don't recall Prica's thread to be all about his anger, she had things to work on herself. I had a completely different experience in terms of the direction to take and my wife blow's up at me all the time.

Mae, let him know you need him to do this. He is not motivated to do so now because you have set the bar very, very low. Communicate to him that you are not going to tolerate angry outbursts any more (either directed at you or at the children), and that this book and the radio show have the information on how to eliminate this.

YES, you need to tell him this, even if you only feel abused "every few years" - when a person has an angry outburst they are completely insane. What they might do cannot be predicted by anybody. Dr. Harley has seen women who have been maimed or crippled by husbands having angry outbursts who had never been physically violent before. It is abuse whether you feel it or not.

The simplest solution is for him to voluntarily go along with this procedure and eliminate his angry outbursts, simply from you telling him you need this and are not going to tolerate it any more. You must try that first, and then if he refuses, then you need to take steps to protect yourself and the children from his anger. We will work on that with you, but first approach him with the problem to see if he will just voluntarily solve it.

Mae... Hi :-) I am also learning a ton about anger right now. The reason you hate conflict so much is the fact that you are married to an angry person.
Again,I think you are downplaying a very dangerous situation you live in everyday. You are in danger Mae. Your kids are in danger.

Grudges are anger.
Silent treatments are anger
Being frustrated is anger.
Putting the health and safety of your kids at risk because you don't want to stop driving followed by an outburst to everyone: I would call that An AO as well.

The question to ask, do you feel punished by it. If the answer is ever yes... Angry Outburst alert.

If he won't listen to the radio show, or becomes reluctant with you reading to him-you are going to have to take drastic measures. That really is the only thing that sometimes gets them to realize what is at stake.

Dr. Harley would say to separate ALWAYS, every single time someone cannot get control of their anger until they can prove that they have taken anger management, and can protect you by never having one again.
I am not joking. As a woman who has been physically hit before, you don't seem to realize how serious your situation is.

If you can just focus on this one issue: His AO. This is the place to draw a line in the sand, face this conflict. Focus on anything else is wondering what color to paint the bathroom on the titanic.

I'm trying to understand for the sake of Mae and myself. I read this thread from the beginning but I haven't seen very much of the more experienced MB members talking about Mae working on her side of the fence?