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As far as the dinner-making thing goes, if it were me, this answer is simple and I am NOT being a turd by saying it.

"I'd love to brainstorm alternatives to you going to the gym while I cook."

I'm not flat saying, "I'm not enthusiastic about it," -- which is a bit of a conversation-stopper sometimes! -- I'm INVITING her to brainstorm with me.

Those key terms Jennifer Harley Chalmers taught to us years ago keep coming back to me:
  • "I love it when..." to reward behavior that deposits Love Units.
  • "I'd love it if..." to talk about behavior that your partner engages in which remove Love Units (Love Busters).
  • "I'd love to brainstorm with you about..." when you don't merely wish to express disapproval or approval, but want to invite conversation and enthusiastic agreement before you take action.


Good luck!


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Originally Posted By: markos
By the way, I don't think you're using the term IB correctly - it doesn't mean time spent alone. It means behavior engaged in as if you don't exist, behavior that does not take your feelings into account.


Markos,

In my case there's a little nuance here. When my wife was having her A, exercise was her life and it was unquestionably IB. I felt terribly neglected. If it's not handled correctly today, it can be a huge trigger for me. Up until very recently, we always exercised together to avoid this (which in hindsight would have been the better option this time).

Thanks for clarifying the more classic definition of IB. No one besides me would get why I would tend to over classify things as IB, particularly exercise.

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If you POJA the exercise and are in enthusiastic agreement about her exercising alone, then it is not IB for her to go and exercise. You may have changed your mind about your enthusiasm later on, but that doesn't make it IB on her part. She was following through on an agreement that the two of you negotiated. If she went without your consent, that would be IB.


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Originally Posted By: ydnAccord
Originally Posted By: markos
By the way, I don't think you're using the term IB correctly - it doesn't mean time spent alone. It means behavior engaged in as if you don't exist, behavior that does not take your feelings into account.


Markos,

In my case there's a little nuance here. When my wife was having her A, exercise was her life and it was unquestionably IB. I felt terribly neglected. If it's not handled correctly today, it can be a huge trigger for me. Up until very recently, we always exercised together to avoid this (which in hindsight would have been the better option this time).

Thanks for clarifying the more classic definition of IB. No one besides me would get why I would tend to over classify things as IB, particularly exercise.


Did you change your screen name, Mindmonkey?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: ydnAccord
When my wife was having her A, exercise was her life and it was unquestionably IB. I felt terribly neglected. If it's not handled correctly today, it can be a huge trigger for me.


I totally get it. During the A, my FWW typically used her exercise time as an excuse to phone & text OM between sets, and encouraged me to exercise alone at the gym so she could phone him while I was out of the house.

Remains a bit of a trigger. I enjoy working out with her. I no longer enjoy working out alone as a result.

If it were me, I'd introduce it this way:
"Sweetheart, I am no longer enthusiastic about either of us working out without the other in the gym. When we go together, I'm happy, but not when you or I are alone. How would you feel about brainstorming a solution together?"

Get the conversation rolling, and expect it might take more than just a few minutes of brainstorming to figure out the best solution for the two of you. Our best solutions typically take days or weeks of evolution to reach full mutual enthusiastic agreement, and often we have a number of false-starts where we are initially enthusiastic, but upon realizing the ramifications are no longer so and need to adjust the agreement.


Doormat_No_More
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane


Did you change your screen name, Mindmonkey?


No, sorry.

It looks like my W opened an account and left it logged in. I'll have to check in the future.

Doesn't really matter. I've got bigger worries. I absolutely HATE that evil woman who cheated on me, TWICE. She is downright ugly to me. My beautiful loving wife may be in there somewhere (I'm guessing) but all I see anymore is that evil witch that slept with other men.

Be sure, she is NOT acting wayward. Quite the opposite. I think I'm starting to lose my mind. Every time my head goes to wandering, I think about the HUGE. STEAMING. LOAD OF CRAP that was inserted (without invitation) into my life, and the lives of my children. I'm coming to the realization that I may not be able to do this. I don't think I can forgive and there isn't enough just compensation in the world to cover serial cheating.


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Are you being triggered?

How much UA time are you getting?


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Originally Posted By: MindMonkey
But it was on Monday that I realized I was doing most of the work. In fact, on Monday I finished the work on our home fitness room so DW can work out with me instead of parading her beautiful body at a gym. She was ecstatic about this...made her first FB post since D-day how awesome her husband was. It got 60 likes. Then I tucked her in early because she was tired and I wanted her to get a good night sleep. I didnt even consider SF. We had a two week running record of daily SF so it wasnt a big deal. But as I went about the rest of the evening, putting the kids down and packing lunches for the next day, my Taker started making a list of everything I do for my W and everything she doesnt do for me. And its Veterans Dayshe didnt even mention it. Shouldnt she have made the day about me?
Last year, I had a really good discussion with Dr. Harley on the radio show about how to POJA and not sacrifice on minor issues. I am attaching the radio links. Pay particular attention to the last half of the call.

Radio clip on Mr. and Mrs. Eureka's call
Segment #2
Segment #3


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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Are you being triggered?
Yes, it started when I did something in bed that OM did, but that's not the problem. Any other time I've been triggered, the pain fades within a day. It's been going on for four days and I'm thinking this will never get better. For the first time, I'm seriously considering throwing in the towel. I'm not a big enough man to get past what she has done.

We've both learned a lot. Maybe it would be best if we applied those lessons to fresh relationships that we don't have to resurrect from the ashes. (I assume) she's learned to avoid OS friendships and their bedrooms, and I've learned to never trust unconditionally again. Meeting ENs and avoiding LBs? Starting fresh, without the stain of infidelity, I have no doubt I could handle those and make someone very happy...someone who won't sleep with other men. It's not asking too much.
Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
How much UA time are you getting?

U/A time: We were getting plenty, well over 20 hours until I was triggered four days ago. Since UA time only counts if it enjoyable, I'd say about ten seconds since then (when she rubbed me in an intimate fashion this morning). She "wanted" to have some SF. It felt good and wrong at the same time. I won't use her.


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I left out an important detail. After I was triggered I posted on another forum. I really lost faith in the MB way of handling resentment.

Anyway, the posters said the most horrible things about my W (and me for not manning up and tossing her to the curb). The worst part is, no one said anything I haven't thought to myself before.


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Originally Posted By: MindMonkey
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane


Did you change your screen name, Mindmonkey?


No, sorry.

It looks like my W opened an account and left it logged in. I'll have to check in the future.

Doesn't really matter. I've got bigger worries. I absolutely HATE that evil woman who cheated on me, TWICE. She is downright ugly to me. My beautiful loving wife may be in there somewhere (I'm guessing) but all I see anymore is that evil witch that slept with other men.

Be sure, she is NOT acting wayward. Quite the opposite. I think I'm starting to lose my mind. Every time my head goes to wandering, I think about the HUGE. STEAMING. LOAD OF CRAP that was inserted (without invitation) into my life, and the lives of my children. I'm coming to the realization that I may not be able to do this. I don't think I can forgive and there isn't enough just compensation in the world to cover serial cheating.


I am so confused.

Are you in recovery, or not? Is there still an affair, or not?

This doesn't sound like recovery talk.

If you are in recovery, please don't use Marriage Builders as a place to vent angrily and disrespectfully about your wife.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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You know, feeling bad doesn't mean you have to talk bad.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: MindMonkey
I left out an important detail. After I was triggered I posted on another forum. I really lost faith in the MB way of handling resentment.

Anyway, the posters said the most horrible things about my W (and me for not manning up and tossing her to the curb). The worst part is, no one said anything I haven't thought to myself before.



I've spent a lot of time on other forums. I'd say I wasted about a year there. It only made things worse listening to a bunch of people giving out advice who themselves were in broken relationships. The great thing about hanging around here is you get advice from people who have been successful. Big difference. Learn from my (and now yours as well) mistakes.


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Originally Posted By: MindMonkey
Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Are you being triggered?
Yes, it started when I did something in bed that OM did, but that's not the problem. Any other time I've been triggered, the pain fades within a day. It's been going on for four days and I'm thinking this will never get better. For the first time, I'm seriously considering throwing in the towel. I'm not a big enough man to get past what she has done.

We've both learned a lot. Maybe it would be best if we applied those lessons to fresh relationships that we don't have to resurrect from the ashes. (I assume) she's learned to avoid OS friendships and their bedrooms, and I've learned to never trust unconditionally again. Meeting ENs and avoiding LBs? Starting fresh, without the stain of infidelity, I have no doubt I could handle those and make someone very happy...someone who won't sleep with other men. It's not asking too much.


We would all sleep with someone else, under the right circumstances. You and I both. There isn't some other woman out there who wouldn't do so.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Quote:
U/A time: We were getting plenty, well over 20 hours until I was triggered four days ago.

Stop dwelling on the resentment and get back to those 20 hours of UA. And don't sacrifice anymore, not even for little things. You were right on track, and you can get back there.


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Originally Posted By: markos
There isn't some other woman out there who wouldn't do so.


Yes, but some are less likely to do so and I would be more prepared to protect against this in the future.


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Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Learn from my (and now yours as well) mistakes.


I've always had much respect FTF. I have learned from many different posters, both as positive and negative examples. I think the real question I'm struggling with is "should I recover?"

After the first A, I told her if it ever happened again it was over. She made the choice to go down the exact same path (and farther), and the consequences were clear. I'm having a hard time saying, "Okay, fWW, I really mean it now...if it happens again, it's over" That's not the kind of man I want to be.


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Originally Posted By: MindMonkey
Originally Posted By: markos
There isn't some other woman out there who wouldn't do so.


Yes, but some are less likely to do so and I would be more prepared to protect against this in the future.


Not really - it all depends on what circumstances people place themselves in in life.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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take a step back for a minute and look at what's happening.

You're letting you instincts control you thoughts right now. All of this started recently because you let your instincts guide you. You listened to what your giver was telling you and now your taker is out in full force.

Your giver and your taker are both whispering in your ear at different times. They compete with one another for control. Neither one of them agrees with the POJA! The POJA takes time and practice to become a habit that overrides your natural instincts one way or the other. The magic of this is that when both spouses do it, it satisfies both the giver and the taker inside of both of you.


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Originally Posted By: markos

I am so confused.

That makes two of us.

Are you in recovery, or not (questionable)? Is there still an affair, or not?

This doesn't sound like recovery talk.

Certainly not what I had hoped for.

If you are in recovery, please don't use Marriage Builders as a place to vent angrily and disrespectfully about your wife.

As usual, you are correct. The truth is, the feelings are there. But I'll keep it to myself. And I won't post at one A.M. after a really lousy date.


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
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