Well Gerold, what kind of girl do you want?

You CALLED BACK the one who questioned whether or not you were heterosexual.

If that's what you seeking out, then fine, but do not expect to find good long-term prospects that way.

She might be great for your short-term SF but that is a classic sign of someone who is a terrible long-term prospect.

A lot of sexually aggressive women don't know how to bag a man without offering sex up front. Those are ones that men need to learn to filter. I seriously question some of the WWs we've seen here as being those. Some were normal women who let up their boundaries, others were walking disasters from day 1. Take note of that.

SF doesn't have to wait until wedding night for many (good grief I was 6 months pregnant at mine, not that I recommend that LOL), but it does mean that a more DISCRIMINATING woman will likely be a better long-term prospect.

Don't forget too Gerold, even if a girl is asking for SF right away, you can say no, right?

You know, my husband asked me back to his place on our first date, yeesh. I said no. Said it again, I said no repeat repeat.

It wasn't that I didn't want SF. I did. Fireworks within the first hour! BUT I knew that early SF would disrupt my perception and make me less discriminatory.

It's okay to say no, even if you think yes.

If you told these women you wouldn't be having sex with them then why would you take them to your bed? If a woman asks to sleep over, you can tell her no or at the very least not share the same bed. That seems sort of passive aggressive on your part.

Exactly. The only time I ever dealt with women who questioned my sexual orientation was in the abusive zoo/prison of public school. I didn't just write off those specific girls for life - I wrote off their entire world. I don't even deal with such people. Definitely did not date them.

And I'd be even less likely to do so now, after Marriage Builders. I'm not into women who motivate me to change through abuse.

Don't date women who initiate.

I never discussed sex with any woman I dated before Prisca. I just went into it with the plan that I wasn't going to be sexually active, and if the woman had shown that she didn't have that plan, then I would have known she wasn't the woman for me and would have kept looking. I didn't discuss this with any woman - I simply assumed it. I didn't act like it was some kind of anomaly that needed to be brought up, as if I were weird or unusual.

It will help to quit acting like abstinence is some kind of extremely rare thing that nobody does.

Also, don't sleep over, let alone put women in your bed or get into theirs. All the behaviors that lead to sex need to be avoided if you plan to avoid sex.

80% of marriages fail. 40% of marriages end in divorce, 20% of marriages end in permanent separation, and 20% end up married and together, but unhappy.

Only 20% of marriages succeed in that they stay together and have a happy marriage.

The culture that creates successful marriages is much smaller than the culture at large.

Date like on a television show aimed at children, where sex is not even an issue. By ruling out casual sex and by ruling out people for whom casual sex is a reality, you greatly increase your chances of dating someone within the Buyer culture.

I have questioned a male partners sexuality once in my time. Here is why: everyone who knew him told me he was gay. He was a very good looking 38 year old with lots of other traits that were positive and he had never had a girlfriend. He only wanted to have sex with me twice in two years. He had had sex with men in his early twenties!! I didn't want to believe he was gay but hmmm I think given all of that I was probably right to EVENTUALLY question him on it. He knew I didn't want to have sex until marriage and although I did have sex with him twice, which I think I did to try an prove to myself he wasn't gay, I now believe he used me as a cover for his questioned sexuality as he knew I wasn't going to pressure him.

Are you saying I was wrong to have questioned him considering all the factors. I think I was dumb and desperate not to have earlier.

In honest Gerold I was triggered by some if the things you said. I guess how I see it is that men want to have sex before commitment but most men woul not offer total financial support before commitment. And rightly so. I just think it is double standards. Is that a DJ on my part?

Also what is the difference between seeing reality and a DJ??
That question is for those that know about these principles.

Sorry for typos I'm not at home and on my phone

It isn't a DJ to ASK how someone feels. It is a DJ to make assumptions, act offended and get all huffy when you don't get your way. DJs are about being sore when you can't have something, so you come up with some 'explanation' as to why not delivered in an atmosphere which punishes the person who isn't doing what you want.

There's a vast difference between asking about a close someone's sexuality respectfully and using it as an insult with a practical stranger when you're feeling rejected.



Even something 'real' is a DJ if used as a stick in an argument. For example if I were in a workplace disagreement with someone generally unhelpful, it would be disrespectful of me to point that out in a bid to try to shame them into doing what I want.

It isn't a DJ to ASK how someone feels. It is a DJ to make assumptions, act offended and get all huffy when you don't get your way. DJs are about being sore when you can't have something, so you come up with some 'explanation' as to why not delivered in an atmosphere which punishes the person who isn't doing what you want.

There's a vast difference between asking about a close someone's sexuality respectfully and using it as an insult with a practical stranger when you're feeling rejected.



Even something 'real' is a DJ if used as a stick in an argument. For example if I were in a workplace disagreement with someone generally unhelpful, it would be disrespectful of me to point that out in a bid to try to shame them into doing what I want.



That's right, you have to sift through a lot of renters and freeloaders in the dating world to get to the buyers.

I asked my boyfriend about this, as the site we met on was jammed with crazies and promiscuity was rampant.

He said some women were incredibly forward. Some asked him very inappropriate things right off the bat. Others were more subtle, but he felt he could tell they were renters/freeloaders because they weren't asking him the right questions. Nothing about him, just all about themselves "They were only interested in one thing".

I asked him if he didn't feel these women might make a good partner. They are interested in sex and so are most men.

He was incredulous and said he had been looking for a relationship - not women who didn't want one! He also said "You wouldn't know where they had been!"

A slight twist to this conversation concerning married couples and SF.

Dr. Harley is very forthcoming about spouses meeting each other's most important EN's...including SF. What about masturbating alone when you spouse is not there? Is that a POJA issue? Is it totally off the table? Personally, I feel that all SF should include the spouse. 100%.

He feels that masturbation should always be off the table because it diminishes sexual desire in the masturbating spouse for the other spouse. I have seen so many marriages over the years where the spouse who was masturbating no longer wanted to have a sexual relationship with their spouse.

...like GROSS!!! You SAW this?!?!


...I couldn't resist the word-picture.


[And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.]

Mmmm. And it is one of the most significant reasons why a high sex drive will not necessarily make a good sexual partner for another.

There are lots of people on these forums who have a sexual appetite they spend on porn and masturbation. They clearly have a high drive yet they leave their partners rejected and miserable.

It's like they have absolutely no knowledge that a bond is required for good sex. They are only interested in the cheapest, fastest satisfaction of the appetite.

I think that's why buyers are put off people who are promiscuous. Even buyers who have a high drive themselves.

Nobody wants to be with someone whose tastes are indiscriminate. Someone who would be happy sleeping with anybody. Someone who doesn't know how to create that bond.

It's just asking for trouble.

There was a couple on here a while back who were both very interested in sex. But they were more interested in fast satisfaction than rewarding and emotional sex.

The wife was having a purely sexual affair (very unusual for a woman), in spite of the fact her husband was more than willing. She was a heavy porn user too.

He was very willing to have sex with his wife. He however was unwilling to give up his own porn habit.

He felt that his wife's (non emotional and purely sexual) experiences with OM were unacceptable. But he felt his own experiences with porn actresses were OK. Why? Because they were just sex. Confused? It made perfect sense to him.

He wanted to continue having those experinces, but for his wife to be available to him when he got bored and wanted a change. The effect on their bond was fairly predictable. As a woman she needed more than that and a man who showed her personal attention. The same things happens when women swing.

The problem with promiscuous people is that they will have sex with anybody. And the problem with people who have sex with anybody is that they do!

I couldn't marry a man who laboured under the delusion that he had no control when a woman offered sex. If he's right, what happens the next time a woman offers?

The banishment of internet porn from our house has been incredible (thanks MB). I find this to be a huge problem with girls that I know, we are all young tired mothers and they have SF every 8-10 weeks by their own admission, too tired, so send their husbands off to the computer. They are mind-boggled SHOCKED to hear that we do 3-4x a week, even still cosleeping with our youngest baby who is barely 1 years old last week. It's as if so many girls my age (29) are conditioned to believe that they cannot have both, be a mother and a sexual wife, and use porn as a substitute for themselves.

I can't imagine what that is going to do in the long-term.

Sadly I hear many of these stories too. Women in their twenties are a lot more accepting of porn and they feel they themselves should imitate it. Doesn't last and they end up sending the man back to the porn with relief.

They've grown up with porn and view it almost as an authority.

The MB way which you following is much better, alis. I bet these women don't even like sex as a result, do they?

Correct, it's a chore to them. They can never measure up to the perfect porn girl, and their husbands wouldn't even know how to actually please them anyways. Watching porn as a woman, you just think "err, that would hurt. That isn't fun", but she's been paid her $500 to pretend to be happy and men believe it.

smartie pants!!

I remember it both ways ... super duper fun, exciting, heavenly, the best High ever in the beginning...but towards the end it was a chore.

Amen and God Bless for what I have learned ... because now I know how to keep the first part going. I no longer will accept it as a chore.

Glorious ... Absolutely Glorious!!!