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Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: Prisca
The fact is that it is disrespectful of him to assume that the way he wants the laundry done is the RIGHT way to do it.


My wife gave me this lesson three weeks into our marriage. I complained that she had destroyed a favorite T-shirt with a logo on it by drying it right-side out on high temperature.

She matter-of-factly said, "You can do your own laundry from now on."

We'll have been together twenty years, and the only time she's ever done my laundry since has been when I was injured and unable to do it myself. It would deposit love units for her to do it, of course, but her memory of my anger at the ruined shirt has stuck with her for two decades!


Exactly. I don't see how that is different from leaving behind clothes that are not ready to be washed.

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
Socks don't get clean if they are in a crumpled up inside out ball. That's a fact.

Is it? I never turn anybody's socks in the house right side out, and they somehow manage to get cleaned.

The fact is that it is disrespectful of him to assume that the way he wants the laundry done is the RIGHT way to do it. It may annoy him that she doesn't do it his way, and she may be willing to change to do it his way, but he cannot assume that his way is the RIGHT and ONLY way. She is a grown woman and is perfectly capable to deciding if she wants her socks turned right side out when washed.


***EDIT***



***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/21/13 04:40 PM. Reason: TOS: disruptive

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***EDIT***

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
***EDIT***


Maybe you could listen to Prisca then, since she's not debating about how to clean socks and is instead pointing out (along with SugarCane) that some of the things you were posting would've been disrespectful if the OP used them in his marriage.

Last edited by Toujours; 11/21/13 04:23 PM. Reason: removing quote

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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Also, Dr Harley says that it easier to change an annoying habit than it is to change our reaction to it.

Practice saying "I would love it if..." when you complain. Repeat and repeat until the habit changes.



Hmmmm, nope don't see anything disrespectful here. In fact, Both of those sentences are what I have heard Dr. Harley say.

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Also, Dr Harley says that it easier to change an annoying habit than it is to change our reaction to it.

Practice saying "I would love it if..." when you complain. Repeat and repeat until the habit changes.



Hmmmm, nope don't see anything disrespectful here. In fact, Both of those sentences are what I have heard Dr. Harley say.


Well, maybe you're missing something. Anyway, it's probably best not to keep this little sidetrack going.

Interestingly enough, disputes over socks are one of the examples Dr. Harley frequently uses on the radio show...


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Socks don't get clean if they are in a crumpled up inside out ball. That's a fact.

Another thing you can do is refuse to wash them if they are like that. Toss them in a pile for her to deal with.



Nothing disrespectful here. I would not want to touch someone else's nasty dirty socks if they were inside out.

This would be an annoying habit that I would respectfully ask to be stopped. If it didn't, then I would not touch them. That's not being disrespectful to them, that is being respectful to me . Do you see the difference?

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Socks don't get clean if they are in a crumpled up inside out ball. That's a fact.

Another thing you can do is refuse to wash them if they are like that. Toss them in a pile for her to deal with.


That is pretty disrespectful, and would be detrimental in a marriage.

Dr. Harley would never advise these actions, RQ.


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Originally Posted By: markos

Interestingly enough, disputes over socks are one of the examples Dr. Harley frequently uses on the radio show...


I'm sure. Look how we got and it wasn't even our socks!

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Socks don't get clean if they are in a crumpled up inside out ball. That's a fact.

Another thing you can do is refuse to wash them if they are like that. Toss them in a pile for her to deal with.



Nothing disrespectful here.


Okay, the fact that you can't see why it is disrespectful is why it was necessary for SugarCane and Prisca to step in and post about it. As I said, you are missing something.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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***EDIT***

Last edited by Toujours; 11/21/13 04:30 PM. Reason: TOS: disruptive
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Please help this couple using Marriage Builders concepts, not personal opinions. Thank you


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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Not doing as I have asked is disrespectful, IMHO.


Going to disagree with you strongly on this. Not doing as you have asked may be cause for Type 2 Resentment, but it's not disrespectful. My wife asks me to do a lot of things that I cannot or will not do. We negotiate, and if unable to follow through on that negotiation we renegotiate.

Case in point: I started a tiling project prior to injuring my back. My wife has asked me repeatedly to "finish projects around the house", including that one. I'm physically incapable of doing so anymore since my back injury, and we need to renegotiate. The fact I am not doing as she asks is not disrespectful. It's a conflict. Not disrespect.


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Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Not doing as I have asked is disrespectful, IMHO.


Going to disagree with you strongly on this. Not doing as you have asked may be cause for Type 2 Resentment, but it's not disrespectful. My wife asks me to do a lot of things that I cannot or will not do. We negotiate, and if unable to follow through on that negotiation we renegotiate.

Case in point: I started a tiling project prior to injuring my back. My wife has asked me repeatedly to "finish projects around the house", including that one. I'm physically incapable of doing so anymore since my back injury, and we need to renegotiate. The fact I am not doing as she asks is not disrespectful. It's a conflict. Not disrespect.


This is all about eliminating an annoying habit, though. If you are physically incapable, that is one thing. But if a spouse is capable and yet (for example) continues to leave their dirty dishes next to the sink even though they know it bothers you, then that is being disrespectful about how your spouse feels about it. It would be disrespectful to say "They are only dishes! Whats your problem?" and continue to ignore the spouse's wishes.

I think the hard part is getting a spouse to stop an annoying habit.

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Not doing as I have asked is disrespectful, IMHO.


Going to disagree with you strongly on this. Not doing as you have asked may be cause for Type 2 Resentment, but it's not disrespectful. My wife asks me to do a lot of things that I cannot or will not do. We negotiate, and if unable to follow through on that negotiation we renegotiate.

Case in point: I started a tiling project prior to injuring my back. My wife has asked me repeatedly to "finish projects around the house", including that one. I'm physically incapable of doing so anymore since my back injury, and we need to renegotiate. The fact I am not doing as she asks is not disrespectful. It's a conflict. Not disrespect.


This is all about eliminating an annoying habit, though. If you are physically incapable, that is one thing. But if a spouse is capable and yet (for example) continues to leave their dirty dishes next to the sink even though they know it bothers you, then that is being disrespectful about how your spouse feels about it. It would be disrespectful to say "They are only dishes! Whats your problem?" and continue to ignore the spouse's wishes.

I think the hard part is getting a spouse to stop an annoying habit.


It would also be disrespectful on your part to demand that your spouse put the dishes in the sink, or in the dishwasher, or hand wash them, or whatever just because you believe that is the RIGHT way to do it.

Just because you believe a certain way to do things is the right way to do it, doesn't make it so. And you will get nowhere negotiating the problem with your spouse by insisting that your way is the right way.


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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Not doing as I have asked is disrespectful, IMHO.


Going to disagree with you strongly on this.


This is all about eliminating an annoying habit, though. It would be disrespectful to say "They are only dishes! Whats your problem?" and continue to ignore the spouse's wishes.


You're moving the goalposts on your statement, and you've conflated three separate things. Please realize I intend no disrespect by pointing this out; each thing you described has a specific and different treatment!

1. It's not disrespectful for your spouse to think "They are only dishes! What's your problem?" Our brains invent new ways to disrespect people all the time, and as humans we have very little control over our thoughts. On the other hand, it is very disrespectful to say "They are only dishes! What's your problem?" If you find your spouse saying such disrespectful things and they hurt you, you want to find an inarguable way to let him know. So do not say, "You're being disrespectful". He can argue about the meaning of disrespect with you until the cows come home and you get nowhere. Instead, state first how his actions make you feel, followed by a loving request. For instance, one approach might be like this:
"Honey, it hurts me when you say that. I love it when you smile and thank me for the reminder."
My wife learning to speak this way worked for me. It can work for him! Even when I am frustrated by her request, I will say, "Thanks for the reminder, honey," and work on eliminating my annoying habit of the week, whatever it was.


2. If he leaves dirty dishes lying around, that is an annoying habit. It is not disrespect. The reason I really want to emphasize this difference is because annoying habits are easy to fix; they take about 30 days or so of diligent attention, one habit at a time, with occasional refreshers if there's some recidivism. "Love Busters" has a whole chapter on how to stop them, and it works. The annoying habit you describe is leaving dirty dishes lying around, which is not disrespect. It's just an annoying habit.


3. Lastly, your statement about "not doing as I have asked". Someone not doing something is different than something doing something you dislike. The default position of the Policy of Joint Agreement is "never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse". Now, you cannot very well "not eat". Right? This is one of those few situations where you really cannot do "nothing", else you'd starve to death! I suggest a thing called "provisional enthusiastic agreement".

The approach you use to come to such a provisional enthusiastic agreement is to brainstorm with abandon. My wife and I faced this same issue, and after tossing around dozens of options, we came to a solution a few years ago that -- embarrassingly! -- we still use today. I have little time for dishes and dislike doing them. She has little time for dishes and dislikes doing them. The biggest issue with caked-on food is the plates; typically, the forks, knives, and glasses come out of the dishwasher clean.

So we use paper plates. At almost every meal. And we bear the cost gladly, because nobody has to rinse the plates to put them into the dishwasher! We just throw the plates away, chuck in the utensils, cups, and cooking stuff, and we're done. We always place dirty dishes in the dishwasher, and run it at night. In the morning, we empty it while cooking breakfast together.

Silly, but if silly works, it's not silly!


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Mindmonkey, sorry if this is a threadjack, but hopefully helpful for your "scarificing" situation
Originally Posted By: Doormat_No_More


1. It's not disrespectful for your spouse to think "They are only dishes! What's your problem?" Our brains invent new ways to disrespect people all the time, and as humans we have very little control over our thoughts. On the other hand, it is very disrespectful to say "They are only dishes! What's your problem?" If you find your spouse saying such disrespectful things and they hurt you, you want to find an inarguable way to let him know. So do not say, "You're being disrespectful". He can argue about the meaning of disrespect with you until the cows come home and you get nowhere.


Agreed!


Originally Posted By: DMN
2. If he leaves dirty dishes lying around, that is an annoying habit. It is not disrespect. The reason I really want to emphasize this difference is because annoying habits are easy to fix; they take about 30 days or so of diligent attention, one habit at a time, with occasional refreshers if there's some recidivism. "Love Busters" has a whole chapter on how to stop them, and it works. The annoying habit you describe is leaving dirty dishes lying around, which is not disrespect. It's just an annoying habit.


Agreed and I have read it. In fact Dr Harley has a letter on this site where he advises a woman who is annoyed by her husband's chewing on how to instruct him to chew so that it is not annoying her. So, I am confused why asking someone to stop an annoying habit is disrespectful as Prisca pointed out.


Originally Posted By: DNM
3. Lastly, your statement about "not doing as I have asked". Someone not doing something is different than something doing something you dislike. The default position of the Policy of Joint Agreement is "never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse". Now, you cannot very well "not eat". Right? This is one of those few situations where you really cannot do "nothing", else you'd starve to death! I suggest a thing called "provisional enthusiastic agreement".

The approach you use to come to such a provisional enthusiastic agreement is to brainstorm with abandon. My wife and I faced this same issue, and after tossing around dozens of options, we came to a solution a few years ago that -- embarrassingly! -- we still use today. I have little time for dishes and dislike doing them. She has little time for dishes and dislikes doing them. The biggest issue with caked-on food is the plates; typically, the forks, knives, and glasses come out of the dishwasher clean.

So we use paper plates. At almost every meal. And we bear the cost gladly, because nobody has to rinse the plates to put them into the dishwasher! We just throw the plates away, chuck in the utensils, cups, and cooking stuff, and we're done. We always place dirty dishes in the dishwasher, and run it at night. In the morning, we empty it while cooking breakfast together.

Silly, but if silly works, it's not silly!


Whatever works!

I'll leave MindMonkey to his thread and let him ask questions about annoying habits and having to sacrifice should he still have them.

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Quote:
So, I am confused why asking someone to stop an annoying habit is disrespectful as Prisca pointed out.


Asking someone to stop an annoying habit is not disrespectful. Neither I nor Sugarcane have said as such.

Suggesting that your way is the right way to do something, however, is very disrespectful.

"It bothers me to wash socks that are not turned right-side out" is not disrespectful.

"Socks don't get clean if they are in a crumpled up inside out ball. That's a fact." Is very disrespectful.

Throwing the dirty socks into a pile for the wife because she didn't do it RIGHT like you told her to is also disrespectful.

Sugarcane very beautifully gave several examples of ways that this could be solved without getting into such disrespect.



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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Asking someone to stop an annoying habit is not disrespectful. Neither I nor Sugarcane have said as such.

Suggesting that your way is the right way to do something, however, is very disrespectful.
Eliminating annoying habits should be a joint goal. The simple fact that a spouse finds the habit annoying is all the reason that is needed to justify it's termination. Yet, it is our human nature to want to pile on DJs and AOs, as if these will better make the case. They don't. Spouses need to commit to ending all LBs, and not follow the instinctive desire to compound them. Don't look for reasons why things annoy you. It is sufficient that they do. When confronted by your spouse with an annoying habit, don't ask why it is annoying. Just work to end it.


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