I guess I need some guidance and advice. When is it time to give up? I have been trying for two months and have seen no results. We are separated and I am at home while she is staying at her friends house. She said she is afraid to come back because she doesn't want the same things to happen again. She basically said she doesn't consider me her husband anymore. I know I have been doing LB such as disrespectful judgement and demands and have not been doing them but how can she see the change if she doesn't even live with me. I feel like all the effort I put in she is not even seeing. She has been telling me the same story for the last two months: part of her wants to stay and work it out but a big part of her would rather leave. I am just losing all hope in this marriage. She said she wants to be alone but yet she is staying at her friends house. I have read love busters, his needs her needs, fall in love stay in love and currently waiting on he wins she wins. Is it time to call it quits because I am the only one who seems to be feeling lonely and hurt?

Welcome to MB.

How long have you been married?

Any children?

Who is her friend? A female or male?

4 years married, we have three year old son. Her friend is a married woman and their family.

It would be easier for posters to get a handle on your situation if you stick to one thread.

I see from an earlier thread that you have given up on the idea of an affair because you haven't found anything on her phone or email. However, in common with other posters, I find your wife's behaviour incredible without there being an affair.

I think you should hire a PI and see who she spends her time with. A PI could follow her and get the information within a day.

Is her friend living with her husband?

The idea that a married couple with kids would take in a woman and her young child, who have left her husband, is just odd - not impossible, but odd. Most people would not want their marriage intruded upon like that. Most people would not have the space to take in two people like that, and some women - like me - would worry about their H living in a house with another woman - even with the wife there to keep an eye on things.

This is such an intrusion; how do her kids feel about another child moving in and sharing their toys and family time? How does her H feel about another child making a mess for him to face when he comes home, and having different standards of discipline from his own kids at his own dinner table, and acting up because he misses his father? Small children drive their own fathers mad quite often, and I cannot think of a man who would allow someone else's kids to live there and behave as annoyingly as young kids behave. People don't just move another family into their home unless they are closely related, and facing something like domestic violence. I wouldn't let my girlfriend move into my home just because she wanted to leave her marriage. She would have to ask her mother, or she would have to rent a place, or she would have to kick her husband out. She couldn't bring her problems into my home, at the expense of the quality of my life with my own husband and kids.

I'm sorry - this is just not as it seems. Why would she move out and disrupt another family's home, leaving you in the marital home, when many women simply kick the husband out or know that a judge would let them stay in the home with the child, and so would see a lawyer?

You're a great deal too lacking in curiosity about the whole set-up and the explanation you've been given. We've tried to light a rocket under you and it hasn't worked - you just want to give up. Well, giving up is your right, although I don't know why you'd post on a forum called Marriage Builders if you really want to do that, but accepting this story if it were told to us by our spouses isn't what we here would do.

Great post, Sugarcane. I felt the same way about his story. None of it makes sense. And there is nothing we can do until he investigates and gets the truth.

I agree.

The only other scenario I can think of would be if she is afraid of him - if he's a batterer - and she feels safer in someone else's home.

T0186 - I'll try to find your other thread, but have you been abusive to your wife, by chance? If so, it'll take more than 2 months to prove that you are a safe person for her to be around - it's more like a year.

I see in your original post here that she is, "afraid" to come back. If abuse is the deal, then please get into an anger management course and read up on abuse. You may also consider writing to the Harleys on the radio - they could talk to you about the steps you might take to prove to your wife you're a safe person.

She might feel safer in someone else's home, but I'm looking at it from the point of view of the friend. If this is a case of wife beating, I (as the friend) would be looking for the wife to press charges and get the H out of the home, and I'd still be encouraging her to call her mother or sister, or look for refuge in a women's shelter. It's a heck of a commitment to allow a battered friend to move into my home with my husband and kids. If she turned up on the doorstep having just run away I would let her stay, assuming I could get my H to agree, but just until we could contact social services and sort something out. She is not homeless - she has a marital home and she and the kid should not be forced out of it. There are restraining orders and injunctions available.

I don't know what's going on but it's all too odd for me. If you (original poster) know that you are violent to your wife, then I don't understand why you are posting here and wasting our time. But if you're not, and this is the neglect and unkindness that you described in your first thread, then I would just be checking, using a PI, that she hasn't run to another man - or woman (in an intimate sense). You might not be able to get a neglected and ill-treated wife back if this is an affair, but you can't try if you don't know what you are dealing with - by which I mean another man or woman who is meeting her intimate needs.

From the thread on SAA:


This is key. She says you are controlling and you've tried to fix issues but always go back weeks later. This is the typical cycle that abusive relationships go through - nice-mean-nice-mean. She may have had enough of the cycle and has fled with her child for safety.


I'm not sure if you recognize what control is, but a statement like this is abusive and controlling. She gets to choose whether she will continue a relationship with a controlling husband - not you. In fact, she gets to choose everything in her life! Your job is to be so wonderful that she'll choose you.

Besides, you can work on your abusive and controlling ways without her. In fact, you must.

Dr. Harley recommends separation from abusers for a year. You can prove over that time that you will never make demands (like for sex, or for her to 'decide' whether to continue the relationship), no disrespectful judgments, and absolutely NO angry outbursts. Go get help, get counseling, and consider it a gift if she is willing to see you AT ALL. Women suffer greatly when abused - physically, emotionally, mentally - and the effects can last for decades.

She is taking care of her health and safety. Please go learn how to be a safe and healthy husband and father.

The good posters on this forum will be great at encouraging you along the way, so I hope you stick around for feedback and support!

fyi, the issue here is that the wife is probably having an affair:


Perhaps he did have some "issues" but the reason she left is because she is having an affair. THAT is what he needs to uncover.

Nothing he does will make any difference until this is addressed.

I appreciate your point of view, SugarCane. The unfortunate reality is that women's shelters are always full, have years long waiting lists, and this woman may not have family in town. Also, restraining orders are violated so often, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Many abused women are so afraid of their husbands, they are terrified of living alone, and with good reason: a woman's #1 risk of murder is by her spouse or boyfriend. (read the statistics - not husband-bashing here - this is just an unfortunate reality in society today) Also, it's a risk to file a restraining order - some batterers get even angrier at being publicly labelled "abusive" and this can escalate their violent behavior. It's kind of a fine line to walk, and the woman herself usually knows the best path to safey.

I for one am glad she's with married friends. They can support her emotionally in this very difficult time, and she is safe. Better than her living with a single woman who likes to party & date around - or worse - another man.

All this is assuming the issue is abuse & control. T0186, please let me know if I'm on the wrong track here? I wouldn't want to offer advice based on an incorrect "diagnosis," as it were.

However: from the next post on the same thread:

As a married woman, she should not have been going out with friends to a bar. She should not have been coming home at 4AM. She might have been with an affair partner. When she was called to work until gone midnight the next night, that could have been seeing OM.

For her to angry because he pressed her for sex when she had said no might be because she is involved with another man. When she was "seeing her mom" she might have been seeing OM, and THAT is what decided her to just leave and eventually never come back.

It could well be that she has escaped this man's abuse, neglect and angry outbursts, but I would also try again to look for an affair, using a PI.

Whatever the outcome of that investigation, what you say, Zhamila, is exactly what he needs to do. He needs to work on his anger and show her that he is safe, for a year at least. He needs to date his wife and not demand that she come home. But if there's an affair, he needs to know that and follow Dr H's advice for that situation.

If she's in an affair and she's not living with the man, then he must be married. An affair with a weasel married man who will not leave his wife is EASY to kill - just tell his wife. He'll throw the married OW under the bus and beg his wife not to throw him out. If this poster offers his wife the chance to repair her marriage after he stands by her, he could be on the road to recovery very quickly. However, if he accepts that she has moved in with a married friend and her H and that he needs to let her go, he will be abandoning his 3 year-old to be brought up one day by another man (not this weasel married other man, probably). He does not have the right to abuse or neglect his wife, but he should try to change his behaviour and fight an affair, for his son.

Also, ALL wayward wives accuse their husbands of being "controlling." They also rewrite history to demonize the husband by trotting out every grievance going back years. This is why it is so important to *FIRST* rule out an affair.

I appreciate this information, Zhamila. I do agree that it's not as easy as kicking out an abusive H or moving to a shelter and that if she IS escaping violent abuse, that she might be forced to live with a friend, who might be kind enough to let her stay for over 2 months.

It's just that we don't know what's going on. He doesn't appear to have snooped enough. Perhaps he has not been honest with us - and this is the first time he has been asked point-blank if he has hit or frightened her, and we haven't had an answer yet.

I just feel that there's more we need to know, and probably he does, too.

We need to encourage him to uncover the truth. He does not WANT to believe his wife is having an affair and he WANTS to believe she left because of his "controlling." That is very unlikely. RARELY do women leave over abuse. They do leave when they are having an affair, though.

here

Most men who come here and report their wives have left are dealing with affairs and they don't know it. Nine times out of ten there is an affair going on and they are in denial.

So that is the FIRST THING that has to be checked. Her complaints about him being "controlling" are a classic WW complaint, often due to his objections about her alley catting ways. And sure, there might be some abuse, and that can be addressed. But only AFTER the affair is uncovered.

We must not forget that he posted about this EA that took place only three months before his first post. The fact that "the individual left the state" does not mean that the affair ended, because plenty of people, including my H, had affairs with people who live in other states or even abroad. Does he know that she was really with her mother the whole time she left for 2 hours just before leaving for good?

Even if the affair ended when he left, it might still be the reason for her leaving this poster. The OW in my marriage had a previous long-term affair. When the married man ended it, she felt she couldn't face her marriage any more and applied for, and got, a job in another country.

As ML says, if there was abuse it must be addressed and ended, but nothing can be done to restore the marriage if there is an affair.

Totes agree that if there is an affair, it must be uncovered before anything else can be done.

T0186, I hope you come back with more information so we can help you.

Wow sorry guys I didn't know this would get blown oh like this. I just received the newest book, he wins she wins. Here is what I have uncover:
There are just too many coincidences that point towards an affair. First she blocked her friendliest on Facebook so unless you know them too you cannot see them on the list. Second she is very protective of her phone, when she comes to pickup my son even if it is dying and she has to use the bathroom she would take it. I honestly think I found the OM, all I have are picture posts of him expressing things such as "give me a chance to love you, you are the queen of my world" and then she would "like" the comment, she would be the only person to like the comment. There were many post like that during the time frame that she said she had an EA. Then from July through September there was less activity on OM Facebook, until September where she tagged him in a photo at a park. Three days later OM comes to my work(I know because it shows on his Facebook places) and his friend comments on you should go greet your partner. End of September WW came home from visiting her mom, legit with pictures and said she needed time and left.
She claims that OM is the brother of her friend and he is married with two kids, but when I friended him on Facebook his status is single and shows no pictures of any family picture in his picture files. As soon as I friend him WW went crazy she asked me why I friended her friends and for me to remove some recent photos of us from my page. She threaten that I don't respect her requests for me to not post pictures of her up on my Facebook. I was shocked and said I can lost whatever pictures of my wife on here. She replies with "not for long". So she still demands that OM is brother to her friend and married and if I unfriend him she would setup a time for us to meet. That was 7 days ago and no more mention of meeting with OM and her friend. If someone has nothing to hide why would they freak out so bad? If it was me being accused I would be like log onto my Facebook and see for yourself. Or be like okay tomorrow come over and you can meet them all and realize what a fool you are. Instead she gets very upset.
Part of my issue is I really want this to work out so I don't want to keep pressing the issue and make her mad. But at the same time I feel like I am a doormat for her. She would come over and I would make dinner, give her a back massage she would leave happy and then next time I see her it is awkward and she seems upset at me again. We still have a shared account so I pay all the bills and she basically work and spends money. We have been to counseling and I feel like she keeps digging up more stuff about me. Like she said she gave up her teenage years for me because it was either hang out with them or me. She claims we married too young now, but at the time she honestly asked me to marry her. I just don't know what to truly think. I have no physical evidence except for her "liking" his comments about love and professing his love for a woman, no mention of names on there. But he also likes comments she makes on her page about finding someone who understand her and stuff. OM is not acting the correct role of a married man. I said too many coincidences to make me feel comfortable about it. But I don't have any major evidence.
Can't put any spyway on her phone because we live separately and barely get to see each othe, one hour session of counseling per week. I work long hours so it's hard to recon and find any information plus the days I have my son I can't leave him he is only 3. I can technically hack her Facebook account but she would know it's me and if there is no message evidence then she would leave me. As much pain as she is causing me I don't want to Divorce because of my 3 year old son.
After reading all the books I understand that it was both of us that killed the love bank. She had an EA and cut off from me not meeting any of my EN-sexual fulfillment. I reached with disrespect when she denies me sex, which causes her to disrespect and bam we are both upset. Our biggest issue is I want to rescue the issue by talking about it and she just holds it in and then explodes when she is overloaded. I have not had sex with her for two months, it hasn't even cross my mind because all i do after long days is sit alone at home, make my own food because it is usually late when I get home. And then I read books on how to save marriages until 3-4am then sleep till 9am and work again.
I have been trying to meet any emotional needs I can but she will not take the questionnaire for love busters and EN to give me any sort of direction on how to meet her needs. I feel like I have put on so much effort and her response is still the same: a big part of her don't want to work it out but at same time she has a smaller part of her that wants to make it work. I feel like she is just waiting to figure out if things are really going to work with OM?
I am at a lost that's why I asked if this is the end? I can't hire a PI don't have enough money for that. But I want need more evidence to ensure I am correct. Let me know if I miss any info needed to help me out.

Crazy part is everything is still in the house except for some of her clothes and her hygiene product. What also makes me feel uncomfortable is we never discussed separation or how long and what kind of changes she want to see. I thought about just moving my own paycheck into my own personal account and truly split everything up.