There are some mighty cynical posts out there tonight! Listen, seek the the blessings in your life. Define blessing for yourself. When the car breaks down, it's not because your spouse left. Mine seems to want to break down anyway. It's just that it would be alot easier if they were there to help or share about it. I found myself linking EVERYTHING to my W infidelity. Well you know what, it's not. This stuff happens anyway. We have to learn to seperate from these events. This thing really is seperate, yes it certainly affects much of what goes wrong, but it IS seperate. Give the situation what it deserves; no more and certainly, no less.<P>Yes people in general suck. I see them all of the time.. "The Chronically Unhappy", these are the folks that fall into the traps; infidelity, spendthrifts, emtpty types. There are so many of them out there. Are you one? Make the choice. Which way you gonna go? Grow, don't get stuck. I love the heck out of my W. Seems now more than ever, for the first time I can respect the mistakes she makes, rather than think they are attacks against me. Frankley, they're just plain old screw-ups, she has to deal with them... I can make the choice whether or not I want to. Do you see what I mean? If I worry about what games she wants to play for making up for them, I go nowhere. I stay stuck, attempting to interpert. Hell, I don't know what I think half of the time, how can I crawl in her head. <P>Don't get me wrong, we are not even close to "recovery". She of dating and boffing (sp? ) lots of guys. I can't possibly do anything about it, her mistakes are not a commentary on me. Also, this has only been going on for 8 months, so I am not just a seasoned veteran. It just seems to make sense to me. I now listen to her about the screw-ups and listen like I would with any friend, with boundries. We seem to think we have license to pummel our spouses because we're married, isn't that kind of flawed. When I was falling in love with her, I never would have thought of treating her or talking to her in such a way. If staying together is what you want, treat your spouse like the friend they were before their mistakes, infidelity or otherwise. If not? Just be bitter. <P>Eric<P>"Hell, I dunno!"

Eric,<P>I think on any given day on this forum, you will see an entire range of emotions. Some happy for forward momentum in their relationship with S, some sad like me tonight, some angry with S and OP for the hurts, and others just confused about where this is all going and when the h#ll is it ever going to be over!<P>You make some good points about each of us finding the things in our lives to rejoice and be happy about. All of us have some joy in our lives, but sometimes we have so much other emotion to deal with, we just can't see it. We should take the time to try to find it.<P>You sound like a really independent and confident person. However, some of our friends here aren't quite there. They need our support and gentle urging onward - me included!<P>This is a wonderful place to rant and rave. Doesn't change a thing in anyone's life - isn't going to bring the spouse back. Doesn't erase the infidelity or resolve pre-affair marital problems. But,maybe for the person who needs to do it, this is a SAFE place to unload a burden that seems to heavy to bear at the given moment. <P>See my post on being turned doen fro Thanksgiving. Crying on the shoulders of my friends here isn't going to make my H decide to now spend Thanksgiving with us. But, anyway it makes me feel good that I can come here and share this burden and my sadness tonight, and another human being will reach out to me and write something that will make me feel a little better. And later on, I will write something on another's post that will reach out and comfort someone else and share in their pain.<P>There are a few bitter people here and whiners, too. Well, in my life I am sure I have had some bitter and whiny moments, too. Some days that is the best any of us can do. But, the challenge for each of us here on the forum is to give something, to take something and to learn something... <P>Roll me Away

Good response Roll Me Away. No not everything that happens to us is our S fault, but most of us wouldn't be in this postion if our S were with us. I know my blessings and we talk about that too. But this is a place we come to when we need the company of other people in the same situation as our selves because it helps us deal with our emotions. I would love to have the chance to talk to my H about what is going on but I don't have that option instead I have to seek out others advice. <BR>Yes stuff happens the car breaks down but my H handled that now I have too, yes, plumbing backs up, bu my H handled that. See that is the problem not that our S caused this stuff to happen but that the S is no long there to handle it. My thinking is muddled at this point I have a lot of problem concentrating because of my emotional state, so having to deal with things that I have not dealt with before is very dificult to say the least, so we come here and yell and vent and ask for emotional support.<BR>I am glad you think you are strong enough to handle all of these. And in my case I did trat my H like a friend in fact he was my bestt friend and I haven't gotten over that lost yet either.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

di,<P>You and I are on the same wavelength tonight! Funny, but last week I had a flat tire. I didn't know at all what to do, because I would normally have called my H. I called my son instead, but he couldn't get the hub cover off. Called H and he told me to dirve it to the garage even if it ruined the tire which it did. I agree with you - there are som any women and men here who are now having to pick up the extra load to run a household, because the spouse left. Think about those guys whose sives have left the house and they have the kids at home - 2 guys baked cupcakes for Halloween parties at school.<P>And then, many of the women here have been stay at home moms. The H ups and leaves and now they have to find jobs, etc. Others like me, have always worked, but now I like you have the full responsibility for everything. My H is still going to pay the bills although we are splitting the costs on many of these.<P>Like you, I felt my H and I were best friends. More than anything, I really miss his companionship.<P>I would like to read your post - I have never figured out how to do it - can you tell me how?<P>Eric, we really aren't all cynical and chronically unhappy. Just going through a really unhappy phase in our lives...<P>Roll Me Away<BR>

While I certainly don't blame my H for the car breaking down, everything would be easier to handle if we could handle it together. It isn't necessarily the case that he would be handling it - but I wouldn't have to handle it alone. Plus, every decision I have made had been based on the assumption that he would be there - I would have bought a slightly smaller but lower mileage car had I known he was going to leave 3 months later; I would not have agreed to buy such a high maintenance house; I certainly never would have quit the job I loved. My day-to-day life is completely different and much harder than it used to be - I used to be just mother of six, homeschooler, and part-time farmer - now I am also working half-time and doing virtually everything my H used to do as well.

Please forgive me for intruding on this thread tonight, but I just have to say something: well, several somethings.<P>First off, women without men is a totally different thing than men without women. I suppose I have just tossed women's lib back 30 yrs. but let's get real, shall we? I am a 40 yr. old woman who "should" and probably "could" change a tire, if I had to. But, let's face it, I haven't done it since I was 17 because <B>my husband has done it</B>. Ditto to assorted other things around the house. On the other hand, although I suspect my H "could" fight for our son with disabilities within the school system, I doubt he would want to. Unless he had to... which comes to my point (GOOD! You were wondering what it was, huh? ) It takes TWO of us to run a house. One "can" do it, but after X amount of years relying on the other one, it is very difficult to do it alone. It's easy to see how someone would be discouraged, afraid and angry about having to go it alone, especially after years of marriage.<P>Next... one moment I can be cynical about just about everything , and the next I am upbeat and happy . I have been in both sets of shoes (betrayed and betrayer) and both hurt like hell. Both make you feel alone for different reasons, and some reasons that are the same. The main thing to remember is that we are human, and humans are an interesting bunch. We laugh, we cry, (and sometimes at the same time) and we all feel pain - and pleasure. I know that love is a choice, that feeling good emotionally is a choice, that forgiveness is a choice. Some days I just don't want to choose. I <B>FEEL </B> and that's ALL I KNOW.<P>Eric, I'm sure this was intended as a pep talk, but for some reason I'm not feeling very peppy. I am truly happy for your successes, honestly I am. I am just so tired after all these years and months of pain. Some days are better, some worse. You're having a better day, I'm having a worse one. That's life around Infidelityville. <P><BR>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited November 07, 1999).]

Roll Me Away are you talking about the profile you are click on the sunglasses beside my post.<BR> I now can and have changed a tire. I had a flat back in May when I thought he was leaving. I was at my daughter's my SIL offer to do it but I told him I'd better learn because I might be on my own. <BR>You know I did a lot of running the household (too strong) but it was a partnership or so I thought. <BR> Like Sheryl,I am going to assume Eric that this was to be a pep talk, but when people are really hurting and sad like most of us are today, we don't need a pep talk. We know how to deal with things we just want to deal with them with our spouses.

di,<P>Ok, didn't know about the sunglasses - thanks. You and I have alot in common. I have 3 grandkids, from my H's kids who are a little older than mine. Also, my B had kidney failure and a transplant 3 years ago. Incredible....! Feel free to use my e-mail anytime you would like.<P>Roll Me Away<P>

Roll Me over I sent you an email. feel free to use mine now. How is your B doing? S is doing pretty good considering it has only been 4 months. <BR>I think we may have frighten Eric off. <P>------------------<BR>di<P><p>[This message has been edited by SDS (edited November 07, 1999).]

di,<P>I was just about to sign off. I have to be at work extra early tomorrow for an event. I promise to read and reply to your e-mail as soon as I get back to my office from event - probably after lunch. My B is doing great! Thanks,<P>RMA

I've changed tires, delivered calves, and stuffed a prolapsed uterus back into a sheep by myself - but not all in the same day. There are just too many things for one person to do, and too many of them require more than two hands - and two brains come in handy also.

Eric, there's a lot of truth in your post. And it seems a very sane atitude <P>It's easy to fall in the trap and link every negative thing that happens to an affair, but as you say, it's not so, it doesn't have to be. there are som many things happening at the same time. They can't all be related to the affair <P>The same way that a positive attitude might affect the whole situation for the better, a negative can have the opposite effect, plus it makes us miserable too ...<P>Kat<P><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Hey Guys,<P>I don't scare that easy. My post wasn't meant as a pep talk especially, just wanted to share. Trust me, I have been and still get blue. I think you have to go through the emotions and actually feel them. I'm not dismissing anyone's feelings. I don't believe in the simple "pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over it" statement. I said this once to a depressed friend of mine... he committed suicide. Not over the comment ofcourse, but that attitude. So it's something I try not to do. I do, however, share what's worked for me. Take of it what you will. <P>Eric32<P>

Thanks this made me think alot. Especially the comment about "When we were dating." I will start to focus on treating him like that a little more.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>