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What a sweet, smart little man your boy is. I'd just tell him that while the Utah job probably wasn't a good idea, it still doesn't make having an affair OK. Don't be afraid to say factually that affairs are wrong. When married people want to have affairs they should try to make their marriages happy first or get a divorce before getting someone else. Thank you indiegirl. He is pretty darn smart and sweet! 
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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WH has lawyers and is wanting to "meet." I should maintain Plan B and not be in the same room with him right? How would I do that?
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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WH has lawyers and is wanting to "meet." I should maintain Plan B and not be in the same room with him right? How would I do that? Just have your IM send him the name and # of your own lawyer. He can contact your lawyer directly.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just have your IM send him the name and # of your own lawyer. He can contact your lawyer directly. Yes, did that. My lawyers asked if I'd be ok "meeting" saying it wouldn't hurt to get an agreement maintaining the status quo and amount of support. So if they do want to meet- I should do it without being in the room right?
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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WH has lawyers and is wanting to "meet." I should maintain Plan B and not be in the same room with him right? How would I do that? Meet for what? There is nothing that can't be done via email at this point. WH's attorney can send your attorney a proposal of whatever it is they want to discuss and your lawyer can forward it to you for review. Then you can think it over and agree, disagree or counter but I don't see why you need to "meet." More legal fees will accumulate this way too. I would just tell your lawyer to ask WH's attorney for his proposal.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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And I'd tell your attorney to make it very clear to his attorney that you don't want to "meet" with WH because it is upsetting to you after all the hurtful and nasty things he has said and done and STILL continues to do, so no thank you, please send proposal via email.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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WH has lawyers and is wanting to "meet." I should maintain Plan B and not be in the same room with him right? How would I do that? Meet for what? There is nothing that can't be done via email at this point. WH's attorney can send your attorney a proposal of whatever it is they want to discuss and your lawyer can forward it to you for review. Then you can think it over and agree, disagree or counter but I don't see why you need to "meet." More legal fees will accumulate this way too. I would just tell your lawyer to ask WH's attorney for his proposal. And I'd tell your attorney to make it very clear to his attorney that you don't want to "meet" with WH because it is upsetting to you after all the hurtful and nasty things he has said and done and STILL continues to do, so no thank you, please send proposal via email. And I'd tell your attorney to make it very clear to his attorney that you don't want to "meet" with WH because it is upsetting to you after all the hurtful and nasty things he has said and done and STILL continues to do, so no thank you, please send proposal via email. No need to meet. Your lawyer can hear what they have to say without you.
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So this morning when I was dropping my 6 year old son to summer camp he said, "Daddy was on the phone with OW last time I was with him and told her 'DS can't wait to meet you.' But I don't want to meet her mommy, I don't!"
Ugggghhh!!! I was SO upset by this. So upset by this that I actually called WH (first time EVER speaking to him since Plan B) and gave him an earful. I know I shouldn't have but hearing my boy say that just got my blood boiling. He promised he wouldn't say something like that again and that he would not introduce the. But we all know how good his word is.
The thought of OW becoming stepmom just kills me....
I need to make NC with any OW be a part of the settlement for sure. I am so disturbed at that thought....
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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Keep your head. Giving your WH an earful isn't going to do anything to keep OW away, because he is a liar and his protestations will just upset and disgust you. Have your lawyer make it happen.
This is why you exposed to your son, so he could tell you about this and he could warn you, protect himself and not be confused by meetings like this. Even if he were to meet her, he has been forewarned and forearmed and he won't make it nice or easy for her. You did good. Your plan is working.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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"Daddy was on the phone with OW last time I was with him and told her 'DS can't wait to meet you.'  He can't wait to meet the person who wrecked his home forever. Doesn't even make sense, does it? Waywards are so dumb and disgusting.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I need to make NC with any OW be a part of the settlement for sure. I am so disturbed at that thought.... Tell your attorney to get this in writing NOW. Most attorneys will say they can't do that but you need to tell him to make that happen. Don't take no for an answer. And don't call your H again!!! 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My lawyers made it sound like I wouldn't really be able to keep my WH from bringing OW around kids... They said "no judge would sign off on that." or something like that...
Has anyone here had something about keeping 3rd parties away from the kids?
They also sounded concerned that I told my 6 year old "the truth" about Daddy having a girlfriend- can anyone give me the link again to support that choice?
A little frustrated right now...
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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My lawyers made it sound like I wouldn't really be able to keep my WH from bringing OW around kids... They said "no judge would sign off on that." or something like that...
Has anyone here had something about keeping 3rd parties away from the kids? Most people here HAVE done that. And almost every one of their lawyers said it couldn't be done. It is, like, EXTRA WORK for the lawyer and we certainly WOULD NOT WANT THAT!! But is important. And it needs to get done. Their only goal is to facilitate an easy divorce, not to protect your child. They don't care about your child and certainly do not know what is in his best interest. They also sounded concerned that I told my 6 year old "the truth" about Daddy having a girlfriend- can anyone give me the link again to support that choice?
A little frustrated right now... Do they have a link that supports LYING TO KIDS? Can they support that deceitful policy? I understand they don't give one ratsass about your child, and this is where you need to step up and let them know it is dysfunctional and unhealthy to lie to children. You need to let them know that you have your child's best interest at heart and telling him lies IS NOT in his best interest. You can show them Dr. Harley's comments, but your word, AS HIS MOTHER, is ample justification. You have to keep in mind that NONE of these people CARE about your child. All they care about is making their own job as easy as possible with an easy, "amicable" divorce. If you will just put your child's best interest aside and roll over, it would make their job so much easier! Willard Harley, PhD, licensed clinical psychologist, on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
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A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here is his exposure article and he advocates telling children there too: When Should an Affair Be Exposed? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Okay.....calling your wayward H was a glitch in your Plan B.
Stop allowing your emotions to rule the plan.
You told your child the truth which is in the best interest of your child.
If you child ever does meet the OW, he has important factual information about her. That is why exposure has been so important. For your child's emotional health.
It would be best if your WH never did have OW meet the child but try to detach from the anguish if they DO meet.
Though she has been the co-conspirator in the demise of the marriage and family, you and your child will handle this mess with grace whatever happens.
You can only control yourself in the end. That means NOT falling for emotional situations blowing up your plan for your own emotional well being.
If you start reacting to what your child tells you....your child will stop telling you things!
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The whole reason you HIRED them was to protect your son's best interests. Saying 'Oh we can't' or 'We don't wanna' just isn't acceptable.
Do what you would do with anyone you hired to help your son who was doing a lousy and lazy job. If a party caterer said they couldn't protect him from a deadly allergy or if a nanny said she really didn't think she could supervise him at the pool and stop him from drowning. What would you do then?
Then, what would you do if they were to add insult to injury and criticise your parental judgement like these lawyers have done? If the nanny called you over protective and the caterer told you these new allergies were all hokum?
You'd tell them you're the boss and they will do what you are paying them to do or you will find someone else. It never fails to amaze me how lawyers think they have the right to tell betrayed spouses and heartbroken children that they should cuddle up and make friends with their attacker so as to make less paperwork. While adultery isn't criminally illegal (sadly), there is absolutely no legal responsibility on the part of the BS to welcome her H's ho into her children's world. They have some nerve.
Even if there were not examples of people who have successfully kept the affair partner away, the very least the lawyers could do is not attack your parenting decisions! Or at least sympathise with the fact that you had to tell your son and warn him of the strange untrustworthy woman he is about to meet. It's very responsible that he has been warned about her and told to tell you everything. All you really know about her is that she is OK with screwing married men and has a horrendous family.
We hear stories all the time of child abuse and drunk driving with the kids because the AP is a loser.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Of course when I broke the plan b and called WH he slipped in "I'm going to be in town Thursday and Friday- can I see the kids? He also told DS on his Thursday night phone call- "I'm going to be in town Thursday but I'll see youSaturday ok?" Which made my son say "if daddy is in town thursday why won't I see him until Saturday?"
Ugh.
Lawyers are advising I facilitate his desire to see the kids because it might be held against me when are trying to settle like (WH wanted to see the kids more but SFL said No.)
I really want to keep something SET and right now it's every SAturday from 9am to 6:30pm.... Because I want NC it's hard to coordinate more than that....
suggestions?
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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Yes, I would let him see the kids more often. While its good to have a set schedule, you need to try and be flexible.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes, I would let him see the kids more often. While its good to have a set schedule, you need to try and be flexible. Ok, so trying to balance the scripted response that IM is supposed to say if WH texts/emails something not "urgent" like wanting to see kids outside of set schedule laid out in Plan B letter and being 'flexible.' If I didn't slip up and break plan B by calling WH, I wouldn't have known he was going to be in town an extra day because IM wouldn't have passed message on to me.... How should IM proceed going forward if WH continues to ask for more time with the kids that what's laid out in Plan B? Since WH is choosing not to be properly set up with housing- he is getting the kids all day Saturday, every SAturday (as opposed to every other weekend). Maybe allowing a Thursday night if he's in town? Friday nights are my favorite with my kids and we all go to our fave restaurant so I'd rather not give that up.... Thinking Thursday night if he's in town and all day Saturdays?
BS
2 kids- 10yo DS, 5yo DD
Divorced since 12/11/15
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Only if he asks your IM.
Don't suggest it to your IM to suggest to WH.
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