I think there is some misunderstanding about what can and can't be communicated. Your IM should relay any pertinent issues regarding visitation and finances. Asking to see the children at another time certainly falls under that category. Asking the IM to "send Susies pink shoes" is not.

Try and be reasonable about visitations but don't let him abuse your generosity. For example, he can't give you 5 hours notice or expect you to break your own plans.

exactly!

Gotcha. Ok thanks...
There was an email (before I cancelled my email account) of him asking if he could take our DS to legoland for the weekend (he also added that SFL and dear daughter could come too- separate rooms, separate cars- yeah right).

I know I need to be reasonable, and it's going to happen eventually, but the thought of the kids not being with me even for one night makes me sad...

Thinking I'd like to have him take both kids though not sure how much fun a 16 month old would have at Legoland.... or maybe he should just take DS. This is all so depressing.

I'm pretty sure I already posted this in your thread awhile ago but this is in my decree:

"Other Parenting Plan Provisions
In addition to all other provisions for possession provided in this decree, the following is ORDERED:
1. Moral Clause - The parents agree and IT IS ORDERED that the parties are permanently enjoined and prohibited from allowing Skank #1 or Skank #2 around the children, subject of this suit, at any time or for any reason."

Each skank was specifically named with her first name, middle name, maiden name, and married last name so it was very clear who they were. My attorney had zero problem putting this clause in my decree and the judge signed...never questioned me on anything in my decree.


Yeah you should never tell your children the truth or identify bad people to stay away from...there's a wonderful lesson to teach children.

x 2

And I would not bother sending your attorney any links to support this either. You do not need to defend yourself to your attorney!!! They work for you period!!!

THAT IS AWESOME! thank you- no I don't believe I saw this in my thread before...

Just curious- is this in the U.S.?

NO, it is in TEXAS.

p.s. most ppl here do have similar verbiage in their papers. It is not the STATE, but a matter of the betrayed spouse INSISTING when her lawyer says "that can't be done."

SFL to lawyer: I would like to get something put in my visitation papers that disallows my XH from dragging my children around his adultery partner

Lawyer: oh no, that can't be done here. You can't control what your husband does during his visitation

SFL: you look like a bright boy, how about making that happen!

Lawyer: you have to get along with your WH!

SFL: I will get along just as long as my child is protected from his affair. Please make that happen!

Others posters from numerous states have similar clauses prohibiting the AP around the child(ren)...and/or even a no opposite sex overnight clauses for a certain period of time.

Mmm, you aren't going to be exposing the children to boyfriends while you're married and it seems ridiculous that anyone can tell you your husband can normalise adultery to the kids against your wishes.

Talk me out of making contact please.....

The universe is funny (or not).

The PI I hired that confirmed affair a month ago texted me today saying "omg I am on a flight and OW is sitting right in front of me."
What are the odds?? PI was supposed to be taking a red eye last night but it got changed last minute...
Any way, he was able to say entire text conversation throughout the flight between OW and my WH. There was "I love you" initiated by him... (that stung that hardest) and pictures of them traveling (although it was a work trip they took photos together infront of monuments)

Anyway, every part of me wants to text WH and tell him I saw the whole text conversation including "I love you's" I have no idea why I want to do this and what it would do for me. nothing I know. Maybe try to make him feel bad?? (as if he has a conscience)....

I shouldn't do this right??? (please confirm why I shouldn't... needing strength)

Thank you

Of course you shouldn't make contact with your WH while you're in Plan B! Why not? Because it will hurt you AND....it will not do a bit of good for him to hear it anyway. He's a foggy wayward, and foggy waywards don't care about anyone but themselves. So YOU will feel bad, and he will feel annoyed with you, but he won't feel bad about his actions.

Please don't set yourself up for more hurt.

Banging your head against a brick wall will only give you a migraine. Don't do it.

Yes, yes, ok, you are right (of course) Thank you....

Kept on looking inward wondering why I wanted to let him know I heard/"saw" this and part of me really just wants the complete 'TRUTH' Wanted him to tell me when he knew he loved her, etc, etc. Yes, banging my head against a brick wall...

The confirmation that he is saying 'I LOVE YOU' is just so painful....

leaving it alone. Will NOT text/call him.

That doesn't mean he means it. It might be that he just knows what she wants to hear.

((SFL))

Try not to let your mind run wild thinking about them. It's hard but necessary. You need to tell everyone you don't want anymore info. That you need space from it. You do.

There's a great thread around here written by a woman who stole another man's wife and ended up married to her affair partner. It is incredible and it would comfort you to read.

The bottom line is that adultery is a hard road to travel. Once a person makes the leap to leave their spouse and fall deeper into an affair, there's a recklessness that creates destruction at every turn. These are not happy lovers.

They are desperate to make it seem like their love is so epic and special that's it's worth wrecking a family over. Her family all know the roots of the affair thanks to exposure and you have to believe it's uncomfortable wherever they go.

They've been exposed and there are a lot more eyes on the relationship. Adultery does not lead to happiness, not now and not in the future but they need to try and make everyone believe that what they've done is worth. They have to prove it to each and to themselves.

It's all an act. Perhaps an elaborate one that they're investing a lot of energy but an act nonetheless.

I hope that thread turns up. Maybe I can find it...

Thank you zibbles- I would love to read it....
Doesn't the above make it more likely that it will 'last' (all the energy they have to prove into it being 'worth it?')

I lived next door to an affairage couple for ten years, who were also related to me by marriage. In true WW style she told the world her BH was an abuser (not according to his second wife btw) and that falling into the arms of a much younger man within weeks was just normal.

Their life, as perceived by a near neighbour, was absolutely perfect. I mean Perfect. They always looked like magazine cover models and their three children (no kids with her first H) always looked perfect too. Great jobs, great friends, laughing and affectionate around each other. The kids were always performing their socks off musically and academically and in sports and were very appealing. They always looked amazing too. The one time I saw a scratch on the perfection was overhearing WW give OM an admonition for putting their DD in an ordinary dress not a party dress for a family function.

This perfection was the case when I first came here and started to learn about waywards and affairages. I seriously wondered if they were an exception to the rule and how they had managed to survive so long.

So they went merrily along for ten years and I think everyone forgot she'd ever had a first H. Until one day when OM decided to beat WW with his phone handset. Bleeding and bruised she just couldn't cover it up any more and told the world he had become an alcoholic a few years into their marriage. No way would she let a little thing like that ruin the lies she had told everyone at the start of the affair!

At least two of the kids are in trouble with the law now. They were too busy playing fantasy and teaching their kids the pretend game to raise them right. No matter how determined you are to put on a show eventually it gives under the pressure.

Couldn't find the link but here it is.:


Trueheart's Letter


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.

I do not know m any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.

The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stand by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash us the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity as we have strayed from that which we know is wrong. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well.

They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you?

We, most of us, alsoe have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty.

You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.

I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, badmouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I dont know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water.

We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok.

What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!

The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A.

I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us.

You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all.

The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family.

It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you.

The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life".

I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was.

I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their piece of mind, their feelings are all that matter.

They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!!

Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them??

By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life.

You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process.

What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage.

They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand.

They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.

I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write *edit* There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!

*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This was written by long-ago poster, Trueheart.
A classic.