Please help me - now my H informs me that OW does not want "me" around HER child. She is mad that I am "rubbing it in her face" by coming in the daycare and going in to visit the OC because my D wants to see him. I told my H - too bad - she wanted the child's father to be involved - and you have a wife and child - and we're not going anywhere - so it's too bad she doesn't like it. Well of course - if he didn't defend her. The OC was hospitalized over the weekend (asthamtic problems) and she kept calling my H freaking out wanting his moral support - I told him "you're not her husband" She is playing him like a fiddle and he can't even see it. He never went to the hospital (to my knowledge) but he had asked me Sat. morning to call the hospital and check on his condition while he went to work, which I did. I didn't end up talking to OW I talked to her mother (who answered the phone). After this and the OW found out that I called; she called my H and chewed him out for not calling himself, etc. etc. He says "she calls all the shots with him - what am I suppossed to do - if she doesn't want you to be around him - then that's what she wants!" He hurt me so badly last night. I told him he can't have 2 families - he's treating the situation like it is an ex-spouse, not an adulterous whormonger who can't get a man for herself so she's out to get anyone's leftovers. So now my H says to "back off and not go see him at the daycare, etc." Basically - I'm having to jump through hoops for her? Forget it - She knew she was having a child out of wedlock and she knew she had no husband - but now she wants one (mine). What am I to do? My H is such a weenie - he didn't even tell her that HE ASKED ME TO CALL THE HOSPITAL! He said last night (as we were love busting all over the place) that he would just get somehwere else to live - and I said fine! Not this a.m. he's trying to be so sweet - it makes me sick. Of course last night my MIL had to leave "all the family" and go visit the OC. The whole situation (when it seems it's 1 ounce better - steps back about 5,000 miles) Help me!<P>------------------<BR>

This is a real tough one...<BR>I feel really bad for you!<P>How can your husband want two families?!<BR>This completely escapes me... It is showing his lack of true caring for you and your D.<P>Have you thought about asking H to leave? How about a Plan B (with letter!)? (I don't know your details and don't know how much of a Plan A you've had.)<P>It sounds like he is draining everything out of you... and that hurt is killing any and all love you have for him.<P>I don't know how I could ever handle your situation. But I'll pray for you and your H and your D too! I'll also pray that the OW finds the will of God and finds someone else who can give her a real family with the OC... that does not include your H!<P>Hey... God loves you! <BR>We all do too! <P>Jim

I'm sorry DD. It sounds like you're going through a really rough time. And H is not understanding the position he's placed you in. Just maybe, though, he said those things out of frustration, and possibly fear for the well-being of the OC. Try not to take too much of what he says to heart. One day he'll see the OW for what she really is: a home wrecker. In the meantime, how could anyone object to you giving attention and affection to their child....after all, it is part of your husband, and i commend your efforts. I can imagine how hard it is. The children, though, are the innocent parties to these triangles, and should be protected from the anger, jealousy and spite that any parent might show. If your husband were to understand that, he might be more willing and able to stand by your rights against this OW.<P>It might be wise to bite your tongue (easier said than done)and let your husband feel he has a safe haven from her constant neediness. This might then forge a stronger alliance between you, something you need to combat the effects the OW is having on your marriage.<P>Wishing you all the best - Raenbow

DD,<BR>Your situation sounds very frustrating. I can empathize. In my case, the OW's H left her for a while during the pregancy. The OW wanted my H to provide emotional support. It was a terrible and stressful situation to be in. I kept reiterating that she needed to find support from friends and family and NOT from my H. Thank goodness the OW's H came back home. But I can relate to what you are going through.<P>I think you need to remain firm with the OW and with your H that you are a package deal. If your H wants to be a part of the OC's life, then you will be also. The OW is the one who chose to work in the daycare where your D goes. What nerve! <P>You can email at audreyb62@hotmail.com if you would like.<P>Take care,<BR>Audrey

DD<BR>I am about to enter into the same situation as you. The OW will give birth in late Dec early Jan. I have a fear that life will be the same for me as it is for you. The only thought I have is that you only see the OC with your D and H. Then you are a package deal. I can understand your feelings about being unsupported by your H. I have tried to understand my H where the OW is concerned and one of the things that I think happens is the they are scared to confront the OW for fear of losing all contact with the OC. These women have the power to make visitation an impossible thing no matter what the court says. My thought for you is the same as the one I have for me. See the OC as a family all of you together and maybe over time the OW will grow up and get over the anger she feels for you. Hope all works out for you.<BR>PW

Thanks for everyone's posts: It helps just for someone to listen. I have tried for us to see OC as a family and that has worked fairly well so far - however, OW thinks I'm getting to close to her child - which I can understand if I was her - but look how close she got to my H! She sure wasn't thinking about that. I think I am simply numb from all the pain I've been through and still continuing to go through and I ask myself - "is he worth it?" I love him dearly - but is it worth giving up myself in the process - things that matter to me - I don't want to share a husband - my child deserves her father there for her! I guess I'm just having a bitter day - H*&% will freeze over before I mention anything re: this OC again. I have asked my H to talk to OW and arrange for us a time to spend Christmas with him and his birthday (which is right after Christmas) so that my H won't feel that he has to go "there" to her house and do it - 'cause I'm sure that is waht she wants. Has he done it - of course not - I think this situation is going to get to the point where I simply can't take it another minute - I'll just pack up - me and my daughter and hit the high road - and let all of them have the OW and the OC and live a merry life!<P>------------------<BR>

DD, <BR>My heart really goes out to you and totally KNOW what you are going through and feeling. In my case, my H and I were seeing the OC but never at the OW's home. My H will not step foot into her home. He despises her with a passion! (THANK GOD). This all came to a quick halt 8 months ago, when the OW didn't want me around HER child. My H stuck up for me and said if I can't see the baby then he won't either.... package deal. Well we found out her true intent... she wanted my H to fall in love with her and she thought this was the way... She said that she wanted this child to know his father... well that really must not be the truth. Unfortunately my MIL did not support my H and my side. She is angry with us, and has not talked to us for 8 months. She has taken the OW and the OC in as her family. DOUBLE BETRAYAL! YIKES. It doesn't feel so good. Your H should be supporting you! If the OW doesn't want you around her child it is only for one reason- to try and manipulate your H. Its ridiculous. He needs to make the decision to stand by you. This child is not the only innocent person in the picture. It is not you holding your H back from seeing the baby.... ITS THE OW. Wicked women they are. There will come a day when they will realize what monsters they are. <P>Hang in there, I hope you H realizes how lucky he is that you are still by his side and what a generous person you are to be able to accept his child into your family with loving arms. I know it is so hard!

Daycare--<P>What if you found a really good counselor, and negotiated visitation, and other concerns, with the counselor present? It may only take a couple of appointments. I mean with OW there too.<P>I think in marital counseling, H and I tend to remain more fair with each other. Maybe with a counselor, OW will feel unable to voice her most selfish concerns, putting what's best for the OC first...AND leaving your H out of the middle so much?<P>Just a thought. And my best thoughts ARE with you--VERY rough situation!! I commend you for trying in all the ways you are, to keep your family together. You're obviously a great person.

Daycare, <P>Nothing to add - just wanted to let you know I FEEL for you. This is a real bummer for you - continually having to deal with the OW and the OC, without much support form you H. <P>Know that others care....<P>Roll Me Away

DD,<BR>I'm sorry the boundaries are so messy. Lord, how stressful for you! Can all the parties agree to a third party counselor negotiating the visitation/communication boundaries, then put it in writing for all to agree to? What you describe is not healthy for anyone, esp. the kids caught in the middle!!! If a neutral person (family counselor) told your H and the former OW what the boundaries should reasonably be, would they do that? Could they respect that? If they could, that seems like a great solution totally worth the cost. If they can't, then it seems you will be forever be in this messiness as long as you're in the marriage. I DO think you are right to deal with the OC as a family (H, you, D) and for you to be an appropriate intermediary between H and OW/OC, but if the OW cannot deal with you, perhaps another friend or relative could be the go between. SOMEONE the OW respects needs to tell her she cannot continue a relationship to your H, and your H needs to hold that boundary. But you can't control them...<P>I'm very sorry if this sounds muddled. I do sympathize, wish I could help, and wish you all the best!! You're trying to do the right thing in a horrible situation!

Guys - it seems to never gonna get better - I guess it is gonna be time for Plan B. I found out yesterday (via his cell phone) he never VOLUNTEERS any information (like we agreed on)that she had called him AGAIN from daycare and he told her he was busy and thus another call where he CALLED her AT DAYCARE. He calls and she tells him that she has to take the OC to the Dr. for a check-up. Okay - a check-up! Now - was this really pertientn information that he has to have? It's probably not even the case - it is probably the fact that they talk every day regardless and it isn't even concerning the child. How in the H(*$@ do I know. I questioned him about it and told him that I'm not getting any respect out of this situation and that she is calling all the shots and he is being a wimp and hurting me at the same time by not standing up to me. He says having her call "only at our home" is being childish (in his opinion). I simply can't win with him. He will either tell me what I want to hear and then do what he wants or not do it period and let me know he's not going to do it. I told him last night that I wasn't playing games anymore. On our way home from dinner - he "claims" he called her on his cell phone and told her that she needs to only call at our home and not during the day! (yeah right) it wasn't on his cell phone that he had even called her and when confronted about that he said "I erased it." See what I'm up against - I said why would you erase it "because I wanted to!" Then he proceeded to tell me I was the biggest baby and that he didn't have to listen to this kind of crap with OW and he sure wasn't going to from me. I told him very calmly that I was finished - he could find a new residence and that he could see what life was like without me and my D for a while - since he was taking us so for granted. He proceeded to say "when do you want me to leave?" and I said right now - no time like the present. He proceeded to go to sleep. He thinks I don't mean it - but I really think I do - this time - I'm tired - I'm tired of the wondering, him protecting her, him taking me for granted and everything else. She wins - I'm too tired - she can have him.<P>------------------<BR>

Dear Daycare,<P>I feel so bad for you. The boundaries are completely enmeshed, and there are no deliniations.<P>If you are serious about plan B, I would imagine you will have a really tough time implementing it, because of the messy boundaries. But, with some coaching and determination and prayers, you can do this.<P>If you both are lovebusting back and forth over all of this, all you are doing is losing your love for one another. I think it is time you think about you, and YOUR daughter, and clearly teach your husband about boundaries.<P>And when your daughter's illnesses, check ups, etc. happen, - show him how clearly you expect him to behave - non-involvement except on visitation days. Then when you get back together (positive confession ) then he can have a clear expectation of how much involved he needs to be in OC's life.<P>You may need a counselor/coach. Give Dr. Harley a call.<P>God Bless<BR>Connie

I agree with you. This is completely unhealthy for you and your D. It is unfair that your H has put you in this position to begin with, but what is even worse is that he seems to have no compassion for the turmoil he is still putting you through by not standing up for you. He should be supportive. I think that if my H would hve been like this, I would have never persevered mentally or physically. You have proven yourself to be quite a STRONG and Compassionate woman. I commend you on that. You need to do this for your own mental and physical health.

I've said it before "I think I may be or at least used to be your husband!"<P>I have traveled his road and hit his potholes, sometimes I think I created the road!<P>If there is anyway I can help, talk to him, or whatever, or if he wants to talk to me, I'll be happy to help. Look at where I'm at and see where he'll be! <P>pmoyers2@mindspring.com<BR><P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Daycare,<P>If you h is such a wimp, then I suggest that you put your foot down! This woman does NOT deserve courtesy from you. Nor does she have any right to dictate what you are and are not going to do.<P>With that in mind, I suggest that YOU call her and request the child at Christmas/Birthday; telling her not too politely (without really saying it of course) that your husband belongs to you, and that she is a third wheel. Show her that the child is accepted, but that her and her actions will not be tolerated. You have to set the rules. This is your life she has imposed own, and believe me, when faced with you and your demands, she'll b****, but she'll learn her place.<P>Possibly your husband will even thank you for handling this situation!<P>Good luck,<BR>Dragonfly

DD,<P>I remember your story, and I think you said that OW was very young? So here's my take on what is going on. First I think she is probably very immature and is acting like a spoiled teenager, which is exactly what she is! Look how much attention she has gotten from having this baby. When teenagers have babies, they are not able to parent them as we adults do. We wish they would and you are totally dumbstruck at how she is acting, but how she is acting is like a teenager. It just happens that she also has your husbands baby! Then, you need to think about what drew your H to her in the first place. I think it was that she was young and dependent and needed him, or at least that is what he thought. So she is continuing to be herself, which is a needy self-centered person and he is continuing to respond to it. I don't think that the OW sits down and thinks about what buttons she can push next with your H. I think she just acts like herself, and that's a needy, spoiled teenager. For some reason, probably a deep reason, your H gets very hooked into that. <P>OK, here's my thoughts on what you should do. The more you push your H and try to set limits on him, the more he is going to resist because your are fighting two things. First you are fighting his desire to see his son and second you are fighting his desire to take care of the child/woman OW. Both are powerful urges and, as you can see he cannot resist them. When you try to force him to, he just lies. So, my answer would be to stop trying. I think you should just let go altogether and see what happens. Why not try it? If you keep pushing as you are, you are just going to get more lies and then you will eventually leave in anger. If you do let go and just try to work with him without controlling, your fear is that he will cheat again with her. OK he might. Then you will leave in anger. See how you get to the same place either way? But, he might come to see her for the annoying teenager she is and not really want to be with her. So, keep trying to find ways to bring OC into the lives of you and your family, but just quit checking on him and making demands about what he should do w/the OW and OC. That's your only chance to not end up at the leaving place. It's not something I've ever had to do so it is only third party advice and I hope you take it as such. Only you know what you can deal with and what you can't.<P>Del