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Hello,
I will start with the stats. Me 43, third marriage, have a D20, S10, and 2 grand C (twin identical) of 5 months. I had a vasectomy 7 years ago. W is 26, first marriage, my SD with her is 7. M for a little over 2 years.

My story begins this summer, my W had 2 one night stand affairs, one in mid July, one at the end. Both alcohol fueled by her version of it all.

I was told that the baby was mine initially, until I pushed the fact that I was going to the fertility clinic to get checked out. She asked what would it mean if i came out at 0%. i told her there would be some serious explaining to do. I was in the shower at the time, i remember it so well. She said "I should just start packing then". I had always told her, since before we were married she could only loose me one way, to cheat on me.
She told me that when she was at a work party, she got super drunk and slept with someone from work. I might add we work at the same place. I have been a direct employee for 14 years, highly respected, and in a high visibility position. She has been there 1 year.
I take this info the best i can, i don't over react, I love her, so I just tell her i am devastated, that I need some time and space to think.
I took that space that I needed, and subsequently due to her BPD that did not sit well, even though I did not "knee jerk" react and throw her out, or get angry. There was a night where she completely lost it, was hurting herself and saying some very bad things, specifically about my S7 mom. He was over hearing this, I decided the best course of action was to diffuse the situation by leaving and going to a friends house. I did abandon her that night I think, she needed me, but I needed more to protect my son.
Things escalated, she found me at my friends house, the threats had turned suicidal. I feared for her, the baby, and my son and my friends kids that were present. we called the police, they evaluated her and she went to a hospital.
It was best she didnt come home the doctors decided, i was in support of this as i was concerned for my son, and myself. (there has been physical abuse on me a few times before. She is only 105, so she never truly "hurt" me, just scratch, punch and bite me)
She went to her ex's house, she has no family, so she would have been homeless otherwise. I should mention i got a PPO while she was in the hospital, i feared if my S7 mom heard about the situation, and I did nothing I could loose custody. Again protecting my son.
We both got into counseling, I love my wife, i knew she had a sickness when we married, I know abandoning someone in need is something that is not in my moral character. I remained her friend, there for her, but taking care of myself and my S.
So I have asked for advice from many of council. All of them overwhelmingly said to run, very harsh, very abrupt. Very self protecting. I agree in so many ways.
One man, a life long friend, a man of god. He is 52, has 7 kids, the youngest 10 months, and his wife pregnant again talked to me.
He asked me, did you know she was sick when you got married? Did you know it would be tough to love her always, in sickness and health? For better or worse? my answer is a resounding yes, i knew this would be tough, but i have always known in my heart, she needed me, I needed her. I loved her from the moment we met. I knew as I did that first morning that i understood what had happened, that we had departed physicaly, that I was hurting her, that her seeking that physical side was in part my fault. Could I leave someone I loved in their greatest time of need? Could I leave a innocent child without the man that can love and support them? My answer is instantly no.
After my talk with my friend, I knew that I still loved her, that I forgave her, that we could look to the future and not look back, that I wanted to be there for her through the ultrasounds, the birth of our baby. That I would never think of the joy being brought into my life by god as anything but an amazing moment. there was no affair, just weakness, that she needed help to be stronger, and that we were getting that help.
So here I am today, tonight. I came home from a business trip Thursday, I had let her know she could come home, that I was here for her. She stayed Thursday and Fri night, my S7 here on Fri. Here is the silly and my problem, not that there arent so many that I need all of your advice on within this very long post. I had a birthday party for my D20's friend today. My W thought me going to this prior commitment before we agreed that she would come home this weekend was an abandonment, (a symptom of BPD.) She had a breakdown, , 17 weeks along, and is not here tonight, taking refuge at her ex's house again. (the ex has a GF and i at this moment don't suspect additional A's) We have been sexually active as recently as last night, the passion is still there for us, i adore her more than ever.
But now that she has derailed again, i still miss her, still love her, I know i am probably being nieve, but I have seen much support here. Hope to have your guidance.

Please help me. I could really use the honesty. I really want to be here for my wife, and the baby. But is it too much? I can get out easy, no support, no settlement for divorce, the house is mine, have had it for 12 years, she has only worked for 1 year during our marriage, but easy is not what I am looking for, I still love her, and nothing good comes easy. I am fighting my morals, and trying to do the right thing to help her and the unborn child that needs a dad. Oh, the potential fathers dont want anything to do with the baby and will sign off after paternity is established.
Thank you so much if you read this far. smile

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Sir,

I encourage you to write to Dr. Harley directly for advice.
Please send your email to: marriagebuilders@mbradio.com .

If you would like to speak with him on his radio show include your name and number so he can call you. (You dont have to speak on the radio but it's convenient insofar that he can ask you questions for a better recommendation).

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Sir, this is your third marriage.
Did you read any of Dr. Harley's books prior to this marriage?
You have another 20-25 years of prime life left. Do you really want to spend it with someone that seeks out affairs?

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Dazed43 Offline OP
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Hi,

No, I did not know of him before my current marriage. I do not want to spend my life with a cheater, I deserve happiness, if self preservation is the righteous path, I am ready to follow,

I am in a conundrum on what to do, looking for help with my decision. I know the path 95% of people would take, what i can easily do.
I am looking for advice for what my selfless humble side should do. I have an internal struggle I am seeking advice for. If my path is to be a father for a child that needs me at the price of my sacrifice, if a woman i vowed to be there for needs me at her lowest and I am able to help her who has little, than I want to follow it. If the correct choice is to self preserve,...??
I need guidance obviously.

Sometimes, I just want to know what love is, how we can all be more human, to feel more, to be more compassionate. I want someone to show me, that we are not all that shallow, but it cannot be one sided.
I can be here for someone, even if it means some self sacrifice. Where are the teachings of Jesus to forgive, of Christianity? I find many of my religious friends, tell me to run, it confuses me.

I want to know what a stranger that doesn't know me would say, how they would advise.

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Why did your 2 first marriages end?

Are you going to write Dr. Harley?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
I was told that the baby was mine initially, until I pushed the fact that I was going to the fertility clinic to get checked out.


How far along is she? You had a vasectomy?

Have you both been tested for STDs? Has her affairs been exposed?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Dazed43 Offline OP
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First marriage ended after my D 20 was 2, we were just so young, have been friends ever since. M2 ended after 14 years, she had an affair as well, tried to reconcile and failed, my doing. i could not work past the A. I vowed never to marry again, messed up and fell in love, and here i am.

I emailed Dr Harley tonight with my story.

She is 17 weeks, I had a vasectomy in 2008.
Yes, both tested. Her affairs have not been exposed to anyone but those involved, there is some career suicide from my perspective with the one. NC with the OM she has told me.

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
First marriage ended after my D 20 was 2, we were just so young, have been friends ever since. M2 ended after 14 years, she had an affair as well, tried to reconcile and failed, my doing. i could not work past the A. I vowed never to marry again, messed up and fell in love, and here i am.

I emailed Dr Harley tonight with my story.

She is 17 weeks, I had a vasectomy in 2008.
Yes, both tested. Her affairs have not been exposed to anyone but those involved, there is some career suicide from my perspective with the one. NC with the OM she has told me.

What spyware do you have installed?

If I understand correctly she had 2 one night stands. Were they with the same OM?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Dazed43 Offline OP
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Spyware? Like adaware?
There were 2 different 1 night stands. Do you know what BPD is?

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Spyware? Like adaware?
There were 2 different 1 night stands. Do you know what BPD is?

So 2 different OM?

BPD, is it bipolar or borderline?

Yes spyware on her devices to confirm NC with OM.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Hello,
I will start with the stats. Me 43, third marriage, have a D20, S10, and 2 grand C (twin identical) of 5 months. I had a vasectomy 7 years ago. W is 26, first marriage, my SD with her is 7. M for a little over 2 years.




So, you were 35 or 36 when she was 18 or 19 when you 1st started this relationship. Is that correct?

Also, SD7. Do you have a 7 year old daughter or Step Daughter with her?

Is the BPD diagnosis from a psychiatrist?

Is that Bi-Polar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder?

Childhood abandonment issues and Childhood Sexual Abuse are common predicators of either, but the release in later adult life is different.

1st, you need to install spyware on her means of connectivity and communication to verify the extent of and possible continuing contact with the 2 known affair supposed ONS partners.

Were both admitted ONS's with the same POSOM or 2 separate guys?

Do you know who they are?

How do you feel about raising some other man's child?

LTL

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
HShe had a breakdown, , 17 weeks along, and is not here tonight, taking refuge at her ex's house again. (the ex has a GF and i at this moment don't suspect additional A's) We have been sexually active as recently as last night, the passion is still there for us, i adore her more than ever.
But now that she has derailed again, i still miss her, still love her, I know i am probably being nieve, but I have seen much support here. Hope to have your guidance.


Hi Dazed, welcome to Marriage Builders. It is very likely she is having an affair with her x-boyfriend and he is the father of her baby. She is keeping you around for financial support. [you are her personal ATM] I can understand forgiving someone, but forgiving someone who is not repentant is NOT Biblical and is harmful to you all. The Bible tells us in Ephesians 5:11 to not associate with works of darkness and that is what you are doing by staying with your wife.

All you are doing is enabling your wife. That harms her, you and your son. It is not compassionate to enable destructive behavior. Allowing her to use you as her personal ATM helps no one.

The Bible does not advocate unconditional love and our marriage vows refer to a lifelong commitment in sickness and health. IT says nothing about staying with your spouse when she makes marriage wrecking decisions. In fact, the Bible condones divorce in the case of adultery. Your wife does not commit adultery because she is BPD, but because she is self destructive and feels entitled. There are lots of truly diagnosed BPD people out there and it does not cause them to commit adultery. Dr Harley is a Christian theologian and here is what he says about your approach:

Originally Posted By: Dr. Bill Harley
The concept of unconditional love in marriage usually refers to a spouses lifelong commitment to care for the other spouse regardless of what the other spouse does. Im in favor of a lifelong commitment to care regardless of unfavorable circumstances (health problems, financial setbacks, and other factors outside a couples control that can negatively impact a marriage). But Im opposed to a lifelong commitment to care for a spouse when that spouse makes marriage-wrecking choices. It tends to give such people unrealistic expectations of entitlementthat they should be cared for, regardless of their willingness to care in return. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love.
here

I agree with your friends who tell you to run for your life. There is nothing to save here. Not to mention that this is a horrible environment for your son. Sacrifice in marriage does not work and it especially does not work when it harms innocent children.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Dazed43

Sometimes, I just want to know what love is, how we can all be more human, to feel more, to be more compassionate. I want someone to show me, that we are not all that shallow, but it cannot be one sided.


Love is NOT enabling a self destructive person. Do you think it would be "loving" to drive the alcoholic to the bar and give them money to drink all night? That is what you are doing with this woman. There is nothing "loving" or Christian about enabling a self destructive person and allowing her to destroy YOU and your son's lives.

Does that give glory to God or does it give the devil a buy one get three FREE?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dazed43 Offline OP
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Hi Melody,
I have had these same responses from other blogs, I came to a Christian based forum in hopes of seeing forgiveness, and compassion based opinions, not judgment/self-preservation type of philosophies, I can get that anywhere.
Did I say she was not remorseful or repentant? She has been both of them. When I first found out about the A, I asked her to leave, and she did. She has no living family or friends in our home area, so her EX was her only choice aside from a motel which she couldnt afford. She hasnt asked me for any money during the time of our separation, and I needed some space and time to think this all over. I have an easy out, I can throw her on the street, go on with my life, have my home, my job, my kids, and just dont look back, not caring what happens to her or the unborn innocent child, wash my hands of it and dont look back is what you suggest, no care for our fellow person. That sounds too easy. It doesnt sound like Christian based thinking from my perspective. WWJD? We both understand what is going on, and we have been in counseling for about 10 weeks, separately.
I got some of my current forgiving feelings from my friend that encouraged me to work this out, and also a video I found on this site as well.

***EDIT***

Is what they did in this video wrong in your opinion?

Are her emotional issues not a sickness? Her childhood, and how her family has treated her in her early and teen life years is a very long story, I wont go into that now, but i have yet to hear of such emotional abuse towards someone. I dont like how the world is just a place that we dont care for each other when egregious mistakes are made. We condemn and cast away those that dont serve our greater purpose, no one will remember me for being harsh, for walking away, for my house or my things. If my gravestone says he was too nice of a man, and forgave too much, i will understand. If i am judged by god that i helped a child born that i could see as a gift from god, that i could love, i will have to take that up with my god.
Actually BPD does have a bad decision making side with relationships and sexuality, nothing causes someone to cheat I agree, and I am not excusing it. I am just trying to understand what happened and why. I am not condoning either, but i am trying to be a forgiving man. Struggling because it seems everyone i talk with is in more of a self-preservation mode, take care of yourself and screw the person that wronged you.
My son, misses his step mom and sister, and we have only had the one outburst in front of him. I have taken the road you are speaking of by cut and running, and just take care of me. In the end I was OK, but sometimes wished I had fought harder. I dont want to just quit this time, i was looking for guidance how to try to work things out, to be there for a child that needs a dad, for a person who needs me.
I am possibly very wrong, and as many suggest, I should just be ok with my 3rd divorce, run to save myself, and settle for being single and alone again. I have a large house and joint custody of my S10, so I have 3 and 4 days on my own per week. I find hobbies, things to do, i enjoy life when i am single, but i am not built to be single forever.
My wife has asked for me to forgive her, understood she has shown me a disrespect with her actions, asked that we go with love in our hearts and be better to each other. i am not without fault in our marriage, i have been to lost in my career, and traveling to notice how much we had lost each other. I want to change that.

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MelodyLane is giving you the advice based on Dr. Harley's information. This is his site and has 40+ years of saving marriages and a leading expert on how to survive from infidelity.

Why don't you email him?


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Hi Melody,
I have had these same responses from other blogs, I came to a Christian based forum in hopes of seeing forgiveness, and compassion based opinions, not judgment/self-preservation type of philosophies, I can get that anywhere.


You are misusing Christian principles to justify your enabling practices. Nowhere does the Bible say to forgive someone who is unrepentant. All you are doing is associating you and your son with works of darkness. You don't need to try and tell me she is "repentant" because you posted she was in contact with her boyfriend.

What Jesus would tell you to do is don't associate yourself with works of darkness. That is the best advice we can give you. Because if you don't stop it, you will drag yourself and your son down into her sinful lifestyle.

I think, rather than using sound judgment and garnering wisdom from others, you are shopping for validation for your own poor choices. I am sorry, but we won't validate poorly made, UNCHRISTIAN choices here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote:
I dont like how the world is just a place that we dont care for each other when egregious mistakes are made.


I don't like that this world is a place where Christianity is used to pressure people into letting others injure them. I'm sorry that this philosophy has been given to you as Christianity, because I do believe that God cares for you and wants you to care for yourself.

You will read in the Bible in Acts chapter 9 that the apostle Paul fled the town of Damascus at night, being lowered down by a rope through a window on the outside town wall, in a basket. Why? Because people there were trying to hurt him!

You will also read a very fascinating parable from Jesus in Matthew 18:21-35 in which God actually takes forgiveness away from someone who had been previously forgiven. So I don't think that forgiveness is as absolute as people have made it out to you to be. And I definitely don't think that people who aren't as free with forgiveness towards those who want to hurt them as you are are acting unChristian.

Quote:
My wife has asked for me to forgive her, understood she has shown me a disrespect with her actions, asked that we go with love in our hearts and be better to each other. i am not without fault in our marriage, i have been to lost in my career, and traveling to notice how much we had lost each other. I want to change that.


IMO, the best way to do that is to begin listening to the Marriage Builders Radio program together every single day and putting each and every principle into practice together as you hear them. If she will follow this program with you you can have a lifetime of happiness together. If not you might want to seriously consider escaping in a basket.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Dazed43 Offline OP
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Melody, I was'nt trying to convince you of anything, merely responding. I was explaining why she was there, you made the assumption that she was sleeping with him. So you are saving me from works of darkness. This is based on what? Because she had affair and is pregnant? I have read surviving an affairs in the blogs, then you say you wont encourage me to be in a sinful relationship. So no relationships can survive an A because it is sinful? I am confused.

Thank you Markos,
I am not trying to use it to allowing others to injure me, i am using it to try to be a good man and use its teachings for guidance. I do protect myself and my son, I also want to be there for the innocent child she is carrying.
Is this basic direction towards me trying to save my marriage based on the fact that she cheated? That she is pregnant? What is the reason i should not forgive her and try to keep our family together?
I will listen to the program, i think she would like to listen to it with me as well. We are getting along great since she came back to the house. I got a text from her just this afternoon,

"I love you with all of my heart, this week has been like a dream *pinch me*. Thank you for your forgiveness and patience and for loving me for who i am"

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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
Is this basic direction towards me trying to save my marriage based on the fact that she cheated? That she is pregnant? What is the reason i should not forgive her and try to keep our family together?


It is because she is still in contact with her boyfriend. In order to have a marriage both of you need to agree to end all contact with any former lovers and prevent future contact. You might recognize the phrase "forsake all others."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Dazed43
"I love you with all of my heart, this week has been like a dream *pinch me*. Thank you for your forgiveness and patience and for loving me for who i am"


When a person has had an affair, you have to look at their actions, not just their words. Many, many affairees have maintained contact while telling their spouse exactly what you posted here. It helps throw the spouse off the scent of what is really going on.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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