Our recovery was greatly held back by my talking about the affair. I thought about the affair a lot and when I thought about it, I'd talk about it. When I talked about it, I got angry and disrespectful. We were in the Online Seminar at the time and I discussed this problem with our coach.

We came up with the solution to use the Conversation worksheet from the Five Steps workbook. I would track when I brought up the A by writing it down. Also, I asked my H to help me. He was to say, "Honey, let's not talk about the mistakes of the past. Let's stick to the program." I'd have to force myself to stop talking and we'd change the subject, the place, what we were doing, anything we had to do to stop talking about the affair.

I would tell myself I could avoid talking about it for the morning, then for the afternoon, then for the evening. After a while, my H never had to gently steer me away from talking about the ugly past. I had to learn to control my thoughts, too, by reminding myself constantly to look at the present and see how incredibly well we were doing today.

Besides, remind yourself that talking about the A never really does any good anyway. It simply brings the sorry and painful past into the present, destroying any recovery progress.

Thanks for the advice Markos, and LongWayFromHome. I agree, that it never does any good to bring up the affair. Whenever I do, it just makes me feel more resentment, and she gets really defensive and angry. I just need to get better at recognizing this in the moment that I need it most.

So, I need advice on how to handle certain conversations in the future. I commented to my wife about how much better things have been since OM no longer works there, and she said something about how she can�t control the future. She said �what if down the road he gets a job here again�? I said � I would not be okay with that, and I would do everything in my power to make sure that wouldn�t happen�. She then says � I can�t control what the company does�. I said well then you would have to find another job. I explained to her that I am not okay with her ever working with him again, and I don�t want her to ever see him again.

Bottom line, is she thinks I am being controlling. Then she mentioned that I need to be positive. I told her that I am being positive, but that I was just letting her know that I would not be okay with that. How do I explain better why this is such an important EP?

Here are a few texts today after our conversation:

(Me)
I have been really positive, and I am very happy about your work situation. I wasn't trying to upset you, and I am sorry that you view these Extraordinary Precautions, as being controlling, instead of viewing them as a way to protect our marriage and family. You can do what you want. You could even have him as your boss again, but at that point, I would have to take steps to protect myself. I love you, and I want our marriage to be wonderful.

(her)
I don't think this matters anymore....or is relavent.

(me)
I was just making it clear that if he came back, I would not be okay with that. I am not trying to be difficult, I was just making a point. It was relevant to our conversation. I love you.

(her)
K, but it won't happen.

(me)
K, so I guess we have nothing to worry about. My comment was only
hypothetically speaking...

Part of your recovery is to not bring up the affair again. It sounds like it has worked out that she no longer has any contact with the affair partner because of things you did and because of things she did.

If there is something either one of you are not doing to maintain the extraordinary precautions then that can be brought up without referring to the affair.

Or, if their is a need that either one of you are not meeting then that can be brought up without referring to the affair.

Every time the affair is brought up it withdraws love units from both accounts which is the opposite direction of where you want your marriage to go.

I don't really feel like we discussed the affair. We really have been doing good about not talking about the affair. This was just a trivial conversation on boundaries. She thinks the Extraordinary Precautions are to over the top. I just need to be able to better express to her why they are absolutely necessary.

A week or so ago, we had a conversation about snooping. She had noticed that I was looking at her phone, and she said "It makes me feel like you don't trust me". I explained to her that I hardly ever feel like I need to, but it shouldn't be a big deal if I look at things. Months ago, she agreed that we should be completely open with our phones and Ipad's. She then said that she thinks that it is wrong to snoop.

I emailed her Dr. Harley's article on snooping, and I was expecting her to put up some resistance to the concept, but later that day, she said "I read that article, and it makes sense". It made me feel good, that she actually took the time to take the article serious.

Does she know about MB? Is she onboard? Her comments above sounds like she doesn't get it yet.

Do you have the book SAA?

Has she committed to recovery?

BH, back in the summer, she was very defensive, and I couldn't bring up anything from MB. If I would try to share an article, she would instantly get mad and dismiss it as having no credibility. Over the last couple months, which just so happens to be how long OM has not been working there, she has been much more receptive, and she will actually engage in conversations about some of the ideas of MB.

I bought HNHN, and LB's, and I am hoping she will read them. Problem is that my wife in the 18 years we have been married has probably only read one or two books. She never reads. She is a busy body. We call her the energizer bunny, because she never can relax. She never watches tv, because she feels like she is wasting time. She is what you would call a clean freak, and our house is immaculate.

She is 100% committed to a full recovery, but I guess I haven't done a very good job at putting a recovery road map in front of her. I am still not versed enough to know exactly what we need to do. We have read lots of article from MB, and have had discussions on POJA, and building an affair proof marriage. We have had good conversations on love banks, and friends and enemies of good conversation.

One problem we run into on MB, is if there is ever any mention of affair, even in the context of building an affair proof marriage, she shuts down, and thinks it is me trying to rub her affair in her face, which has never been my intention. She will still sometimes say that she doesn't feel like she had an affair, because she knew that it would never have become physical, because she trusts herself.

She has mentioned in the past that I just don't want her to be herself. She is very outgoing and friendly by nature. In the MB101 thread, there is a post by "Mysacredmarriage", and my wife reminds me a lot of his wife. My wife just gets a long really good with guys, and she doesn't feel like she is crossing boundaries. It has been a huge battle this year trying to establish what is and isn't okay in interactions with the OS.

This worries me bc this reminds me very much of my WxH. He did not want to completely close the door to the OS. Why? Because he liked the attention. It was as simple as that. And so he gaslighted me for 3 years while we were in a false recovery.

There was another poster who was here for a few years and his wife just didn't seem to "get" it either. As it turns out, she was unsympathetic to the pain that she caused him and continued to make decisions without taking his feelings into account - she ended up breaking EPs and going back to work in close proximity to the OM against his wishes.

I would advise you to talk to Dr Harley about what you posted above. Don't gloss it over and see if he can give you some direction.

What has been done from this checklist?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Agree with SusieQ her actions don't sit right.

Get the book SAA.

What about contacting Dr Harley? Have you ever had her listen to MB radio? If she doesn't like to read she can listen to the show and then you can discuss it together.

SusieQ, This worries me also because that sounds very much like my wife. She still doesn't completely understand the dangers of OS friendships. She has agreed to not have any OS friends, but she has said a few times that she doesn't see it the same as me. She also really does enjoy attention from other men. She is very beautiful, and she will tell me all the time about guys that will basically follow her around the grocery store checking her out, and trying to make eye contact with her. This really worries me at times.



This is another thing that really worries me, because I have always felt like my wife was unsympathetic to the pain I have gone through. Even though we have gone through a lot to set up EP's, I still worry that she won't take them as serious as she should. The reason I worry about this, is because of conversations like we had yesterday about hypothetical situation of him working there again. She will just say things like "I can't control what this company does", Like I would just have to deal with it. I made it clear that I would never be okay with it.

BH, we have done everything on the checklist, but there are a couple that are not clear to her, and we have had a lot of conversations about. I will explain them individually.


The only answer I ever get from this one, is that she can't control every situation. She say's she is committed to never talking to him again, but she says "How do I guarantee that I will never see him again". It goes back to the what if conversations. What if we crossed paths with him by chance at anyplace? Sporting event? Disney land? Her point is she can't Guarantee that.



We never changed her phone number, but that is the only way that they ever communicated, and I have complete access to her phone, and I can see all texts and calls on our bill. I would notice in no time if he ever tried to text or call her. There has not been a single text or call to her phone since DDay 5th of May 2014...

Everything else on the list is clear to both of us, and has been done.

How close does he live to you? Dr. Harley often recommends moving. Is this an option?

Why won't she change her number?

Has she answered ALL your questions regarding the affair?

How much UA time are you getting?

Have you and her got away for a vacation?

It sounds like always you are getting a lot of good input and as BH said get SAA. If she hates reading books together then I would start with that book.

The other 2 books will help you rebuild love once the check list in SAA has been agreed on and implemented.

You need to let her know that your condition of continuing this marriage requires her implementing what is out lined in SAA. The reality is the success of you marriage depends on that being in place.

So First step Get SAA.
2nd Ask her to read with you.
3rd follow instruction in book to a T.

Moving is not an option, and the OM is from a state that is 2,500 hundred miles away, and for all we know, since he no longer works there, he could live anywhere. By moving we could actually end up moving closer to him. Bottom line is she is committed to never talking to him again. She is just funny in her comments towards committing to never see him again, because she has no control over that. She is only making the point that we could randomly run into him half way around the globe in Africa. The odds of getting struck by lightning are probably way more likely. The bottom line is, that she has committed to me, that in the event that for some reason she saw him from a distance or whatever, that she would immediately tell me, and basically run the other way. She says she absolutely would not approach him or say hi. So, I would actually say we are good on this part of the checklist, besides that �Crazy minded� Technicality.



We both agree (POJA), that changing her number would accomplish nothing. He never initiated any of the texting, and never called her phone even once. There is no way that he will randomly out of nowhere start texting her. The only reason this turned into what it did, was because they worked right with each other. EP�s have been put in place, and they have no reason to ever talk to each other again.



Yes, we have gone over the fine details many times, finally to the point where I was satisfied. This process took 5 months. Now I try my best to not bring it up for any reason.



We are getting plenty of UA time, and I have never felt closer to her. She is very much in love with me right now, and we love every second we spend together. We are having sex on average about 4 times per week, and that is not because of me being persistent. She really enjoys SF, and basically plans on being with me every other night. I don't have any complaints in this area, and this is one of my top EN's.

We got away on a little mini vacation a couple weeks ago, and it was great.

This is an area that I mentioned earlier, that we struggle with. If I ask her to read SAA, she will feel like it is me bringing it up, and rubbing it in her face. I have to be careful in my wording, and I refer to the affair as "Our Situation" Whenever I call it "Affair", she shuts down, and conversation goes nowhere. I have introduced all of the basic principles in SAA, one at a time, and I feel like we are doing pretty good at following. We are still pretty un educated in SAA, but we have learned so so much from these concepts.

Like I mentioned earlier, my Wife has opened up to MB quite a bit more the last couple months. She understands how important MB principles are to me, and she no longer dismisses the insights I get from this website. Things have greatly improved here. The only things we get hung up on, are the little technical things like I mentioned earlier.

What about MB radio? Will she listen to MB radio?

I will see if she will listen... I somehow need to get her past feeling like I am judging her, or rubbing it in if I mention anything about marriage trouble...

Example: tonight when I got home from work, we were hanging out talking, and I mentioned how a guy I work with was telling me today about how his wife left him for another man, and now he pays $700 a month in child support. Well she says she feels like I am trying to say "I told you so", or just trying to lecture her. I told her I didn't mean anything by it, and that it was just a conversation I had today.

I need to get her comfortable with feeling like it is not a bad thing to discuss marriage and relationships, and that by doing so, we can learn how to avoid future trouble. I think she just wants to avoid marital discussions all together right now. I have been very calm and loving whenever we have these talks. She is just overly sensitive to things right now.

Advice for my wife�s friend.

So, the other night my wife and I went to the movies, and ended up sitting next to a lady my wife used to work with, and they hadn�t seen each other in 8 years. So her friend tells my wife that her husband recently left her for a woman he met when they moved to the UK for work(she was his office assistant). She told my wife that they moved back to the states to try and fix their marriage, but he has since decided to go back to OW. She is devastated, and completely clueless on what to do. She was bawling during the movie, and my wife felt really bad for her. They exchanged numbers before we left.

Anyways, on the way home I told my wife she should tell her friend to post her story on the MB Forum. My wife is nervous about doing this. She feels like it isn�t her place to.

Should I continue to encourage her to contact her and give her some advice, or should I just forget about it, and consider it none of my business?

I would. Maybe your wife would feel better about sending her link to the website?