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So Remark-
Please,please,please as if your marriage depended on it, tell me why you are taking HER words and using them as proof that you acted with her enthusiastic agreement?
ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT has to come BEFORE the action to be truly enthusiastic.
You broke POJA and asked for her blessing AFTERWARD.
And you figure that it's okay if she says okay?
WRONG!
This is why she feels hopeless!!
You have the definition of the POJA misinterpreted in your mind. You are misapplying the DO NITHING part here!!
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Did you actually ASK her about the gift or did she just approach you? NO, I didn't ask her. She read my post within the amount of time I'm allowed to edit it ( the post. )
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Remark-
Respectfully, I want to ask that we focus on this point.
I have encircled you with verbosity and posted over and over about this point of doing nothing without her being HAPPY about something before you move forward.
Your wife does not want to feel like a dictator to you, having to say no you can't, yes you can, give up your family , pick me over your kids, quit softball and on and on...
Your wife wants you to show CARE and PROTECTION for her by making sure that she is comfortable and HAPPY before you do anything.
Remark-
You have said that you are a linear thinker. That means that you don't see the ripple effect of your actions until it's too late. If you would ask your wife before acting, then this problem would be eliminated.
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Actually, I should have phrased it this way:
Because you are a linear thinker, you tend not to think of the next step until you complete the first one. And linear thinkers tend to follow routines.
This is why learning to follow the correct Order of steps to follow the POJA is difficult for you.
But actually, once you get the order of things correct, and form the habit, you will most likely stick to it.
VERIFYING with your wife that she is enthusiastic, and ACCEPTING her feelings by not pestering her and NOT MOVING FORWARD when she's not, will avoid chaos for both of you. The failure to do this has been the biggest problem over the course of your marriage.
It took my husband a long time to transition from assuming his own habit and logic was what I would also want, to exploring my perspective. But he rarely deviates anymore. And I can handle some of his forgetting much better now that I can see those as exceptions and not the rule.
Your wife could have a diamond in the rough here.
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Actually, I should have phrased it this way:
Because you are a linear thinker, you tend not to think of the next step until you complete the first one. And linear thinkers tend to follow routines.
This is why learning to follow the correct Order of steps to follow the POJA is difficult for you.
But actually, once you get the order of things correct, and form the habit, you will most likely stick to it.
VERIFYING with your wife that she is enthusiastic, and ACCEPTING her feelings by not pestering her and NOT MOVING FORWARD when she's not, will avoid chaos for both of you. The failure to do this has been the biggest problem over the course of your marriage.
It took my husband a long time to transition from assuming his own habit and logic was what I would also want, to exploring my perspective. But he rarely deviates anymore. And I can handle some of his forgetting much better now that I can see those as exceptions and not the rule.
Your wife could have a diamond in the rough here. DidntQuit, I agree with you. I should ask W or forum before doing ANYTHING. Correction though, Dr H has pegged me as a non-linear thinker, not a wise, linear thinker. More later, Remark
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DidntQuit,
I agree with you. I should ask W or forum before doing ANYTHING. ETA: I never said to ask the forum about their perspective. I have corrected your statement.
Last edited by DidntQuit; 05/24/15 04:30 PM.
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Thanks Deacon. I was looking for that!! Yes, I'm afraid that was the night. She told us she was on her PC working at the time. I offered to have anything she wanted on the TV while she worked, as I always do. She said, "I don't care, I have work to do." But, yes, that was the night. Remark
Last edited by Remark; 05/24/15 06:57 PM.
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DidntQuit,
I agree with you. I should ask W or forum before doing ANYTHING. ETA: I never said to ask the forum about their perspective. I have corrected your statement. Didnt, W suggested I ask forum especially if she's not interested in answering my question. Thanks, Remark
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Thanks Deacon. I was looking for that!! Yes, I'm afraid that was the night. After we went out for a nice dinner and I made a beeline for the TV without having invited her to spend more time together, She told us she was on her PCworking at the time. I offered to have anything she wanted on the TV after I had already broken POJA by turning on the TV and assuming that she wouldn't want to watch with us, while she worked, as I always do. She said, as an excuse because she was hurt from putting effort into dinner and then being abandoned and not even asked in advance about turning the TV on or spending more time together,"I don't care, I have work to do." But, yes, that was the night. Remark
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Thanks Deacon. I was looking for that!! Yes, I'm afraid that was the night. After we went out for a nice dinner and I made a beeline for the TV without having invited her to spend more time together, She told us she was on her PCworking at the time. I offered to have anything she wanted on the TV after I had already broken POJA by turning on the TV and assuming that she wouldn't want to watch with us, while she worked, as I always do. She said, as an excuse because she was hurt from putting effort into dinner and then being abandoned and not even asked in advance about turning the TV on or spending more time together,"I don't care, I have work to do." But, yes, that was the night. Remark OK, I get it. Remark
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But, OK, I give up. I want to be Harley husband who values his wife above all others. It feels like I'm coming over to the 'dark side'. You W can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the big problem she has with your family is that she feels she plays second fiddle to them. You have tried six ways to Sunday to convince the forum that your desire to spend time with your family is "reasonable." But that's not the problem. Of course it's "reasonable" for you to desire that. What is NOT reasonable is to expect your wife to feel loved and stay married to you when she comes second to them. When you say you "give up" and your " want to value" your wife, it sounds like you are just frustrated and defeated because people on here won't tell you "Of course you should put your aging parents first, your wife is the unreasonable one." This does not sound like you actually do value your W first. It sounds more like you just reluctantly "give up" trying to convince everyone to agree with you. So you could end up stopping contact with them but not making progress with your W because I doubt this martyr-man attitude that you don't want to put her first but you will if you have to is going to achieve your goal of making her feel loved and cherished like she is your #1. BTW I have never been clear if your parents are part of the issue or not. Is or is not your wife enthusiastic about you spending time with them? (I'm not asking you to answer me, I know everyone else on her is tired of this topic, I'm suggesting you clarify that once and for all with your W if you are not 100% clear.) AW, I get it. I'm enthusiastically on board. I can understand wanting to be my spouses' no. 1 priority. We'll not be seeing them until, if ever, W is comfortable with them. I'm sorry I don't have the gene that disconnects with family as easily as the rest of the world apparently does. But, I am genuinely, enthusiastically on board because my wife IS my no. 1 priority. Thanks, Remark
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I'm sorry I don't have the gene that disconnects with family as easily as the rest of the world apparently does. I didn't have that gene, either. It was not easy at all. But after it's been done and worked out well, it makes perfect sense, and the whole thing looks like a no brainer.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I'm sorry I don't have the gene that disconnects with family as easily as the rest of the world apparently does. I didn't have that gene, either. It was not easy at all. But after it's been done and worked out well, it makes perfect sense, and the whole thing looks like a no brainer. Marcos, Thanks, that's encouraging. Remark
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I'm sorry I don't have the gene that disconnects with family as easily as the rest of the world apparently does. I didn't have that gene, either. It was not easy at all. But after it's been done and worked out well, it makes perfect sense, and the whole thing looks like a no brainer. My husband doesn't have that gene either. He said that you should listen to the radio show where Dr. H talks about putting a bubble around Joyce. If I knew the date I would link it.
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Have you started the EA list?
To be clear-
Any communication with your family is not yet on the EA List.
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DidntQuit,
It gets complicated from there.
Attempting to discuss that list and create it with JD2D, she wouldn't agree to me not seeing my family. In fact, she insists that when we separate, I go see my family every 6 weeks, I play softball and I go to church and go back to bible study. I asked "why would would I resume and IB that I've given up already, (wholeheartedly), and then have to give it up a second time if we were to reconcile?
And, the first and only thing she would discuss is my family. I said that the forum advises us to focus on us first and worry about the family later. And she said that she has explained to the forum that she can't discuss anything until that is resolved, imnplying she has convinced the forum of this.
In short, my EA list isn't going so sell.
We talked all day Saturday and all day Sunday. It's not going well at all. Today, she is with her parents having a garage sale.
What will IB look like if/when I move out? She's saying she wants to date and she knows she's going to fall for the first guy that shows any interest in her.
Thanks,
Remark
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DidntQuit,
It gets complicated from there.
Attempting to discuss that list and create it with JD2D, she wouldn't agree to me not seeing my family. In fact, she insists that when we separate, I go see my family every 6 weeks, I play softball and I go to church and go back to bible study.
In short, my EA list isn't going so sell. Stay calm and don't react, Remark. 1. As far as the EA list- It is for YOUR purposes in recording what SHE IS enthusiastic about. You don't have to talk about "the list" anymore with her. But you can use it to keep track of what she says she is enthusiastic about. You can only control your end of things, and you don't need to do what you are not enthusiastic about doing. So don't communicate with your family until and unless you both are enthusiastic or divorced. And if I were you, I would not be enthusiastic yet. Now, she is making a thoughtful request of how she wants you to behave after separation.(softball, parent visits, bible study, etc.) You DO NOT have to agree to that. Her thoughtful request turns into a demand at the point where she bullies or punishes you with disrespect for not agreeing. And if you really wanted to save your marriage, why did you PURCHASE a place instead of renting? This is the 3rd time I have asked this question. Is there a reason it's being avoided?
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DidntQuit,
We talked all day Saturday and all day Sunday. It's not going well at all. Today, she is with her parents having a garage sale. WHY? Doesn't sound like pleasant conversation.
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DidntQuit,]
What will IB look like if/when I move out? Same as NOW. You follow MB principles until D day.
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She's saying she wants to date and she knows she's going to fall for the first guy that shows any interest in her. If that is true, I feel sorry for her. When she says something like that, respond with "That is disappointing." and move on.
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