Hey all,<P>This isn't gonna be a soapbox post for once! Not really sure where I/we're at. Have been talking alot with my W. Really talking about marriage, our marriage. How we seriously failed each other and why. About who we are becoming. Very refreshing. Early on we attempted to have such dialogs, due to my pushing, but when I didn't get the response or result I wanted, I would punish her. Opps! No wonder we didn't go anywhere.<P>The most intruiging comment made was when I asked her if she trusted me. "For the most part" she responded. Why only for the most part? She said it was because I always knew how to hurt her the most. "I didn't trust that you would not hurt me..." I knew the buttons that no one else knew. I stopped and thought for a moment. She's right. We then talked about why and how, she did the same. At first we tried to determine who started it. Then discovered, it didn't mater. The buttons I pushed were not of the I knew of things and used them against her, but rather I knew her insecurities and worked them in an effort to get what I needed. That, I have certainly learned is NOT how you get what you want. Actually, it is quite evil. <P>We have moved from focusing on the what the other did (ie; worked too much, etc.) to the why. Funny, I didn't trust in her exactaly the same way, I didn't trust that she wouldn't hurt me. In an effort to protect ourselves from the hurt and distrust, we tried to envoke what we "needed" with signals and subversive actions. Manipulate and control, never coming out and talking because we were afraid of what the other could do with it. My W has even bigger issues with this because of her family, the way they, are past and present. She bottles up alot of hurt. Regardless of our outcome, this is an amazing breakthrough for us. For her, because she is learning to share instead of bury it. And me, because I am so self-centered and think my smart [censored] has every thing figured out. Think again. She can teach me as well.<P>I don't know where we're headed. I have let go of expectations of the situation. I am not sure what I really want either. Goes back to that trust thing we share. Looking back on our marriage and what we've talked about, I can respect her indecision as well. What I have realized is how little we knew each other, and this thing we called a marriage was just our perception of what marriage was. Wow, did we do it wrong! <P>Infidelity brought us to this point, but we brought each other to the point of infidelity. Maybe this marriage will actually dissolve, maybe it won't (I don't want it to). I can accept the possibility now with some sense of peace. I love her, but what I have discovered is that I really LIKE her too. Flaws and all. For me, no pushing, no plans, no manipulation. Just honesty, I want her to know that she is truley safe with me. To get there, I have had to let go of being so self-protective that I ruin what it is I desire most. Doing it is not enough, believing it and living it is what is needed. At very least I have found a friend.<P>Eric32

Okay, so I'm afraid now. I also suck at math.<P>Our divorce will be final 12/09, I thought it was mid Feb at first, then mid Jan. Okay, maybe I suck at law too. I wrote the damn thing (w/W), you'd think I'd know. \<P>We've come so far in past weeks, but I don't think far enough. I have discovered (from her own lips) that there is so much more to this than the affair or other stuff. It all seems to be actually about her and her perspective on life in general. "Can't trust anyone, I'm worthless, who cares... I don't" etc. Man, this is alot deeper than I think I can handle, can't go to a or the shrink, still owe money on the second one. She hurts so much and continues to self-destruct, with me at her side. I can't do a damn thing about it but continue to watch. All I can do is listen and point things out. I am committed to not advising her in order to maintain the trust we've built, I can't push because of her state of mind. I just have to sit there and be her friend. This sucks, I know I am the one to help her, but I can't!! <P>Eric32

Eric,<P>So sorry you are having such a cr@ppy one! How did yor posts change so dramatically from the 9th to the 10th???<P>Sounds like your W is on the fence if you guys had those conversations just a day apart. I see your D is coming up soon. Can you guys agree to back off on the date and let a little time settle the dust a bit??? too much haste might make you both sorry later on.<P>Your pain is really big right now. I wish I could help in some way. <P>I understand the part about wanting to help her and not being able to. It really is all about her and sorting out what she wants and she just doean't know. For those of us who know we want our S, this is so frustrating and very hard ot understand. Bt, trust me, you can do nothing to help the situation but wait and lovingly support in whatever way she lets you. SOOOOO very hard to stand on the sidelines of our dear one's life and only be able to watch....<P>Wishing you the very best...<P>Roll Me Away