My husband and I have been married for 9 years. We've had our ups and downs in that time. He started a relationship with a longtime friend's wife about 3 years ago. They were having marital issues and he was trying to talk to both of them to "help". I started to get uncomfortable with the relationship a few months later when she texted him at 11 pm about something. There were several other signs on his end that were making me uncomfortable with the relationship. It was always that it wasn't the case and so on. Eventually he did say that he had strong feelings for her and said that it would be over. I've heard that more times than I can count in the past 2.5 years. It never did stop and kept getting more involved as time went on. The lies continued to pile up. I was putting a lot of pressure on him about the relationship. It finally lead to us having a huge argument in May 2014 which lead to some domestic violence. This happened about 4 times over the next few months until last September when I finally said I had enough and got a PFA. I've since dropped it. I felt much stronger with myself that I would be able to do what's right if that started again. There haven't been instances of any domestic violence.

I was told repeatedly that he was not texting her anymore or talking to her. I know for a fact that the last time he talked to her was August of this year. I've explained to him over and over that I don't trust him. That him telling me that he's no longer talking to her is not enough anymore. That he (and I) need to be open and transparent about our lives. His cell phone is locked and anytime I question him about it he has one excuse after another. I've heard that he doesn't know how to get contacts off of his contact list because it's synced with his google account. He's a smart guy and can figure this out.

I'm at my whits end trying to get him to understand that the cellphone is a huge trust issue for me. I have no problem handing mine over to him. I wouldn't mind giving him anything if he were in the same position that I am in. I'm not sure what to do. I'm at the point now that I feel that the only thing to do is to tell him that it's over. I don't want to do that. I love him a lot.

We did go to counseling. Well I went to counseling. He went the first day and then stopped. Another issue is that he often waffles about the facts. Today he might say that there was an affair, tomorrow that there wasn't and then a week later that there was. He keeps saying that it is irrelevant now. I've explained to him that it's not. It goes to whether I can trust him or not. If he keeps changing it and I know that it happened, then I can't create trust.

I'm very frustrated and any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated.

Dr Harley would encourage you to separate from him until the affair is ended.

I've already been thinking about that. I've been reading Dr Harley's page off and on for the past 2 years. The hard part is that we have two kids together. Every time that it comes up in conversation in the past he gets irritated and says that I'm going to take the house from him. That I'm going to divorce him the second he's out of the house and take everything that he has. I've told him numerous times that I didn't marry him for that.

I'm not concerned about being able to afford the house and bills on my own because I'm already doing that. He occasionally buys groceries here and there if we need milk or something like that and he's already out. But I've been making ends meet for the past 3.5 years while he wasn't working. He's been working since March of this year. I keep hearing about how he doesn't have any money - we have separate bank accounts now as the PFA was originally set up for a long time and he needed to put his money somewhere. Yet yesterday he went out and bought $150 worth of video games. I literally have $13 in our joint account until I get paid in a week. That's because I paid for a medical bill that we had that was for him from a few months ago. I'm tired of it!

I can't find a way to get him to understand that I don't hate him when we talk about separating. It's not about that. I just want our relationship to be better for our kids and us if it still can be. At this point I'm not so sure. I've already started getting myself ready emotionally to make a move to be separate. It's very hard to do.

What's a good way to talk to him about separating? Every way that I have tried so far hasn't worked.

aluzya, you are not going to be able to convince him that separation is good for your marriage, or for him, so please stop trying to have those conversations. Please stop trying to persuade him to see things your way. You are only making yourself even more stressed and ill by trying to reason with him. He is beyond reason while he is in his affair.

The only thing you need to do is tell him that you need him to move out, right now. If he does not agree to do this, pack his stuff when he is at work and put it outside. You said that you already have an easy means to separate from him, so just use it. Call the police if he becomes aggressive.

When he leaves, you can hand him a Plan B letter (or send it later), in which you explain that you cannot take the pain of his affair any more, and you need not to have contact with him until it ends. In that letter, you tell him what he needs to do if he wants you to consider reconciling - and proving that he has ended all contact with OW, for life, is top of that list.

Have you read the Plan B letter template on this site?

This is horrendous. Put him out. he is of no use to you.

$150 on video games? That is madness. Put him out. He can return those games to pay for a hotel room (not that where he stays is any of your concern).

Hi Aluzya and Welcome to MB.

Until you raise the bar and (hopefully) your husband realizes that he must treat you with extraordinary care, these ups and downs will keep happening, and your husband's affair will become even further entrenched.

Total transparency is the minimum requirement for a marriage, and as you've read here, no independent behavior, spending recreation time together, etc. Your husband is not going to wish to provide much of that while he is in an affair.

I also feel certain that Dr. Harley would tell you to plan to separate.

Obviously this is bunk. He is just playing on your sympathy. Please if he tries this again, just offer him a cup of tea. As others have stated already, it is impossible to reason with affair fog, so don't even try (at this point, trying to reason or educate just gives him a stronghold to play on your kindness).

Don't talk with him about separating at all. See my note in the above paragraph. For the greatest hope of recovery, you need to be pleasant with him until you separate. Get your ducks in a row quickly (read up on plan B, see an attorney if need be, choose an IM for child visitation schedules, etc), and then ask him to move out. We will help you along the way. Can you do that?

Yes of course you want your marriage to be better for your kids also, but what your kids are witnessing right now is not what you want them to go forth in life with as the way to have a marriage, is it?

YES your relationship still could be great, this program is wonderful IF and WHEN both spouses get on board. Your husband is not in any frame of mind to even comprehend the MB program until his A has ended and he has had no contact for a while. Please do not tell him about this site yet. Use it for yourself for now, and we will all hope that after he ends his A and agrees to your requirements, we can help him also. For now, just keep it to yourself.

Hi aluzya, the best way to separate is to pack his bags and ask him to move. If he won't move out, then I would get legal help and get a protection order against him. Allowing him to live there with you while he carries on his affair only serves to ENABLE the affair. He has no reason to end it under the current conditions.

Once you get him out, you should expose this affair wide and far to everyone, especially the OW's husband and family members.

His affair has already been exposed. His family and mine both know about it along with probably everyone else that lives in our town. It's a pretty small place and he was at her house in town quite frequently in the evenings with our kids while I was at work. In fact her now ex-husband was talking to me over a year ago about it. He knew when i did. The two of them is a whole different story that I prefer to stay out of. Been involved too much with that crazyness for my liking.

I've already been slowly getting my things in order. It's been a little chaotic between work, the kids and home. I've started disengaging from him a little bit so that I don't get sucked into the crap with sympathy. In fact to the point that I need to be careful because he asked me, "Why I was acting that way?" in response to something that I said to him.

Thank you for all of you help. It is greatly appreciated.

I've told him a few times in the past month that I was going to keep pushing him. Either things changed and got better or we separated and possibly divorced. Something was going to change.

I get caught though at times because he is a good dad. He also helped me get a battery for my car in the past month because it had died. But if I hadn't paid for the medical bill he had I could have bought the battery. So it's kind of a mute point I guess.

aluzya, it is critically important that you take this more seriously. Women are only supposed to be in these situations for 3-4 weeks and you are well beyond that. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder along with other psychosomatic symptoms. Hanging around as his option makes you much less attractive to him so there is absolutely no good reason to keep this up.

Stop "pushing" him and pack his bags tomorrow. Get him out of that house and change the locks.

Additionally, I would plan on moving out of that town because your marriage will NEVER recover living there. If you stay there, he will be in a perpetual state of withdrawal. You will be dealing with this for years until eventually it ends in divorce. But if you move away, he can follow you there and you will have a chance to save your marriage. If he won't move, then you will be in a better position to get divorced. Either outcome will be better than hanging around while he abuses you. [and yes, affairs are abuse]

A big reason this has gone on so long is because you have been so TIMID that you have been enabling the affair. It is time to grow some momma bear BALLS today and start standing up for yourself, your marriage and most of all, your children.

I understand this is a very difficult position to be in, but you have made it worse by choosing weakness. Your husband knows he can manipulate you and that is because you allow him to do so. That has to stop if you ever want to get out of this hell.

Domestic violence? Did he hit you?

I hope someday you can read this back when you are in a much stronger place, and see just how LOW of a bar you have set for yourself. This is all you require? That he helped get you a new battery for your car, that you did not have the money for because he spent it on video games.

Here and there are some Plan B Letter templates in the thread also.
How to Plan B Correctly

Yes he hit me. It was getting worse as it always does in those circumstances. I did hit him back a few times in self defense. The last time was the worst which is why i left about a week after that when he was getting angry again. I know a lot about domestic violence. It can be hard to understand and accept why the women/men stay. They each have their reasons.

As for the bar being low believe I already know. I've been pretty belligerent with him at times because of being irritated with myself and him, but mainly me.

The battery was just one example. He's done other things that I've asked. I've always felt that me and our kids came second to everyone else. I could ask about the oil being changed in the car for three months off and on and it wouldn't get done. A friend or family member could call and say they needed their oil changed and he'd be right over. Then I'd get fed up and change the oil myself. I equate it to asking for a piece of cake and only getting fed the crumbs.

Have you separated from him yet? Are you reading our posts?

So what is your plan? Are you going to Children continue accepting crumbs?

Yes I'm reading your posts. I talked to the lawyer that I had during the PFA. The only option open to me is to leave with the kids. I can't get him to leave on his own. Even if I I told him to and he wasn't listening and started in on his usual crap. The police won't remove him if called. Which I know will happen. As for throwing his stuff out and changing the locks. I'd have a hard time doing that.
But I can file for custody of the kids. I have that paperwork already. I want to get that submitted before I make a move.
I know that he can't take care of the house financially on his own. The house is in both of our names but the loan is in the joint account. Which was actually my account that we added him to. He has to sign a form to remove him from the account. I don't see that happening.
I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and be as best prepared as I can for what I think is likely to happen. I've already talked with my parents about moving in with them. I'd have to drive the kids to school and then work but they would be willing to pick them up after school for me so I can get a full day in.
It would be nice to keep the kids in the house to try to minimize the fallout with them as much as possible. But I don't feel that's a possibility. I do have a coworker who fixes up houses. He and his wife are almost done with one now. I've talked to him before about the place. They should be done by the end of October or shortly after. So that's a possibility for the kids and I. But I need to look into the repercussions of the house I'm in now as to paying/not paying for it when the kids and I aren't in it. If it ends in divorce, then I can file to get the house. I need to ask the lawyer if that's something I can do even though we aren't divorced. As my parents pointed out last night that they didn't see any reason that a judge wouldn't award me the house as I've been paying all the bills. I told them that if you take him out of the picture that nothing changes. The bills still get paid, the kids still get their homework done, they still get up and in the bus in the morning and so on. The only difference is less stress, not dealing with someone that wakes up cranky, yelling because they're upset for whatever reason, and so on.

So what is your plan, aluza? Are you moving in with your parents now? If I were you, I would first try asking him to move out. See if he will move out voluntarily. If not, then be prepared to move out with the kids into your parents. Perhaps you can get the flip house at the end of October.

Lawyers always tell you that you cannot force your spouse to leave. They also say that there is a huge strategic advantage to remaining at the house both from the standpoint of the divorce settlement and child custody. My lawyer told me that I had to bring a domestic abuse claim against my XH. I did not do this but if you Google this, it is very straightforward.

Instead mine did something that he must be regretting. He waited for me to be away for a few days and went in and emptied out of the house anything that could be considered either marital or his. Having done that he legally had 'left'. I expect he thought he was being very clever.

So then I just changed the locks. It is never illegal to change the locks on a house you own! Changing a lock is trivial and cheap; you unscrew it and take it to Home Depot or a local hardware store and get a new tumbler to match. You might want to plan this carefully, for instance change locks now on doors he never uses and keep the strategic one till the end.

I also put in a burglar alarm because my XH would have been perfectly capable of calling a locksmith and telling him he lost the key and then entering again that way, changing the locks again on me. The burglar alarm was minimal and invisible and only installed on the two doors he might use so that he never saw it, the alarm pad was hidden in the basement. The point of the alarm was to alert the locksmith that he had let someone into that did not know how to disable the alarm and then of course also alert the alarm company and police.

In the event it was unnecessary as he arrived when I was at the house. I went out onto the driveway and spoke to him quietly. I told him that he should leave or that I would call the police. He tried to run into the house but I got there first and locked him out. I then called the police only to find that he had called them first and had told them he was being threatened by me with a gun.

When they arrived, they took one look at me and could see that was wrong. They asked me to prove I had the right to live there and I was able to show them two utility bills in my name. What constitutes evidence of residency varies from state to state but it is curiously not the title. You will need to ask your lawyer this question.

The police took XH aside on the driveway and told him that he needed to request the court for access. He did this and the court awarded me the house.