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What you don't realize is that eliminating lovebusters is necessary, but you won't have love in the first place without creating it. UA time is for creating and maintaining it.

Just because you can't see HOW to do this, doesn't mean that reality shifts to accommodate you. You must create a new structure little by little, by putting your priorities in order.

Just because you are incredulous doesn't mean that it doesn't work. You start solving your problems one by one. And I would suggest that you focus on the program itself, listening to the radio show,and getting help here if needed. People who argue are wasting their time when they could be brainstorming for creative solutions. You have paid for the materials, so roll up your sleeves and start thinking Of The craziest ideas for how you COULD make it happen.

When do you start the program?


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UA time is best spent outside the home. But you mentioned he leaves before the rest of you get up in the morning. (I'm guessing that's why he wants to go to bed at 9:00) How early does he leave? Would be realistic for you to get up when he does and spend some time having a cup of coffee and/or breakfast together before the kids get up?

I know you can't be the one to put ALL the effort into this, but it seems like a nice opportunity for quality time together - with no vulgar TV shows on or him being wiped out from work and just wanting to veg and tune out.

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Originally Posted by DidntQuit
What you don't realize is that eliminating lovebusters is necessary, but you won't have love in the first place without creating it. UA time is for creating and maintaining it.

Just because you can't see HOW to do this, doesn't mean that reality shifts to accommodate you. You must create a new structure little by little, by putting your priorities in order.

Just because you are incredulous doesn't mean that it doesn't work. You start solving your problems one by one. And I would suggest that you focus on the program itself, listening to the radio show,and getting help here if needed. People who argue are wasting their time when they could be brainstorming for creative solutions. You have paid for the materials, so roll up your sleeves and start thinking Of The craziest ideas for how you COULD make it happen.

When do you start the program?

Totally fair statements.

Actually, we aren't understanding how this works after we paid for it... I know part of the program is coming in the mail, but part of it is online, right? They haven't told us how to access that... We paid yesterday....


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He leaves around 5:30 or 6, just depending on his work day. But he just wakes up with enough time to get ready and leave. He doesn't even eat here, they provide food at his work. I doubt he'd want to get up even earlier than he does, but I can certainly ask him if that appeals to him.




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So maybe start with this-

Figure out when you are going to do the INITIAL online seminar. You will need a huge chunk of time for it to have the best impact.

Of course it's a busy time of the year, but can the kids get shipped off to grandma's during a weekend of the holiday break, or hubby take off a day? The education is more impact full if you can focus on it. Imagine going to a marriage retreat, but at home. Is this a possibility?

Or, could you have a young couple from church come stay with the kids and you guys find an affordable local hotel?




Last edited by DidntQuit; 12/20/16 09:23 AM.
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The reason that I suggest this, is that you want the time and environment where Dr. Harley's points can sink in. It was very impactful for us, and very foreign for my husband.

You will also need time to figure out how to rework your weekly schedule, with the highest importance on your planning session, UA time, and lesson time.

Please keep in mind that you will have to reprioritize your husband over time with the kids. He is not getting his needs met right now either.


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I edited the previous post to be more clear. Sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Prisca
In order for UA to work at home, you must:
1. Have a husband that is more dedicated to making your marriage work than you are
2. Be completely free of distractions
3. Put MORE effort into dressing up and making it special than if you were to go out
4. Not fall into the trap of sitting on opposite sides of the couch eating TV dinners, browsing the internet, and watching TV and THEN calling it UA
Would you say any of this is true for you and your husband?

1. Nope
2. I think it's possible, especially if we agreed to put away devices.
3. If I'm being honest, this is something I need to work on whether we go out or stay in. I haven't "let myself go" entirely but I am definitely overly casual (sweatpants even when we go out) and don't make as much effort as I should. I still like shower every day and put on makeup and I don't wear like dirty clothes or anything, but I don't try to be cute. He's good about not making me feel bad about this but I know he would like it if I made more effort. The truth is that I have put on about 15 lbs in the last couple of years and I feel really bad about it and somehow trying to be cute makes me feel worse rather than better. I need to get serious about losing that weight, too, among the other things I need to get serious about.
4. I think I am 100% clear and in agreement with this point. It's a LB for me that he goes to bed to watch TV every night instead of interacting with me.


Then you are in no position to be having UA at home.


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by markos
The reason we are such hardliners on this board is that almost 100% of the time when people come to this board they are in situations where corners cannot be cut and they need someone to help them rigorously apply the program with no exceptions or they are not going to make it.

The people who just read the program and do it and it works for them and they might be able to afford an exception here and there are not the people who come to this board looking for help.

That makes total sense. I know it seems to you guys like I'm looking for loopholes, but the truth is that this is THE SCARIEST part about this program.

UA seems incredibly scary to a woman whose husband isn't on board with the program and who is still engaging in love busters.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by markos
Please pay attention to this. You need to see this. This is more important than UA.

Originally Posted by markos
Okay, you are going to need to get him to agree to some accountability or he is going to drive you nuts.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him this:
"I can't live with you watching these TV shows any more. It just hurts too much. I married you for life, but that was with the expectation that we were going to have a marriage of caring for each other and to me that means never doing anything that hurts each other. If you can't agree to that, then I can't continue to let you hurt me like this."

(Notice that there's nothing in there disrespectful or judgmental. Nothing that says what he is watching is wrong or immoral or whatever - just the fact that it hurts you. It's all about how it makes you feel, because that is THE MOST important issue. That's what's wrong with watching porn: it hurts wives.)

If he doesn't agree to start living this way, you start preparing for a separation. If he does agree but doesn't change anything, you start preparing for a separation. If he agrees and keeps his agreement, then great, you move on to the next issue and start discussing that, until you are both living the whole program, all of it based on the fact that you need him to live this way because it hurts too much if he does not.

Let me assure you that if I were a married woman in your situation that is exactly what I would do. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Prisca is exactly the same way.

But if that seems too strong for you I have two alternative suggestions. The first one is free: contact Dr. Harley at his radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see if he can help you get your husband to agree to stop doing anything you are not enthusiastic about. The second one is paid: sign up for the coaching and accountability program and see if Dr. Harley and his coaches can help get your husband to agree. Either way if your husband doesn't cooperate or doesn't cooperate for long, I would encourage you to start preparing for a separation, because it is better to separate sooner while you are feeling better and still willing to make your marriage work than it is to drag things out until you are so hurt that you cannot stand your husband and never want to see him again.

You're right. The problem is like the previous poster mentioned, he agrees to everything. He doesn't like conflict, so he will say whatever the other person wants to hear in the moment. We did marriage counseling once (not MB), and they would give homework and he would always agree to do whatever it was, but then not do it.

An ultimatum scares me. I know that has the potential to bring about the change that would make BOTH of us happy, but there's a part of me that feels like I really would rather deal with the status quo than actually break up my family....

Okay, don't let go of this. I think you need to pick one of the suggestions I made there or nothing is ever going to move forward.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by DidntQuit
So maybe start with this-

Figure out when you are going to do the INITIAL online seminar. You will need a huge chunk of time for it to have the best impact.

Of course it's a busy time of the year, but can the kids get shipped off to grandma's during a weekend of the holiday break, or hubby take off a day? The education is more impact full if you can focus on it. Imagine going to a marriage retreat, but at home. Is this a possibility?

Or, could you have a young couple from church come stay with the kids and you guys find an affordable local hotel?

I don't know that we could afford a hotel, and we don't have any family here, but he does have some days off for the holidays and I do think we could dedicate a day to this. The older kids want us to work on our marriage, so I think they would be willing to help us by watching the little kids for the day. They're great babysitters as long as they don't have to do bedtime or be responsible for much besides the basics.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Originally Posted by markos
Please pay attention to this. You need to see this. This is more important than UA.

Originally Posted by markos
Okay, you are going to need to get him to agree to some accountability or he is going to drive you nuts.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him this:
"I can't live with you watching these TV shows any more. It just hurts too much. I married you for life, but that was with the expectation that we were going to have a marriage of caring for each other and to me that means never doing anything that hurts each other. If you can't agree to that, then I can't continue to let you hurt me like this."

(Notice that there's nothing in there disrespectful or judgmental. Nothing that says what he is watching is wrong or immoral or whatever - just the fact that it hurts you. It's all about how it makes you feel, because that is THE MOST important issue. That's what's wrong with watching porn: it hurts wives.)

If he doesn't agree to start living this way, you start preparing for a separation. If he does agree but doesn't change anything, you start preparing for a separation. If he agrees and keeps his agreement, then great, you move on to the next issue and start discussing that, until you are both living the whole program, all of it based on the fact that you need him to live this way because it hurts too much if he does not.

Let me assure you that if I were a married woman in your situation that is exactly what I would do. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Prisca is exactly the same way.

But if that seems too strong for you I have two alternative suggestions. The first one is free: contact Dr. Harley at his radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see if he can help you get your husband to agree to stop doing anything you are not enthusiastic about. The second one is paid: sign up for the coaching and accountability program and see if Dr. Harley and his coaches can help get your husband to agree. Either way if your husband doesn't cooperate or doesn't cooperate for long, I would encourage you to start preparing for a separation, because it is better to separate sooner while you are feeling better and still willing to make your marriage work than it is to drag things out until you are so hurt that you cannot stand your husband and never want to see him again.

You're right. The problem is like the previous poster mentioned, he agrees to everything. He doesn't like conflict, so he will say whatever the other person wants to hear in the moment. We did marriage counseling once (not MB), and they would give homework and he would always agree to do whatever it was, but then not do it.

An ultimatum scares me. I know that has the potential to bring about the change that would make BOTH of us happy, but there's a part of me that feels like I really would rather deal with the status quo than actually break up my family....

Okay, don't let go of this. I think you need to pick one of the suggestions I made there or nothing is ever going to move forward.

You don't feel like it will be enough to work on the home study program?


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
He leaves around 5:30 or 6, just depending on his work day. But he just wakes up with enough time to get ready and leave. He doesn't even eat here, they provide food at his work. I doubt he'd want to get up even earlier than he does, but I can certainly ask him if that appeals to him.

I had a feeling he left pretty early.

How far away does he work? Is there any way you could do lunch dates? (I'm probably dreaming, but if they feed him at work, maybe the have on-site daycare too...) If it's logistically realistic, you might even take a homemade lunch in to him to save money over the cost of eating out.

Regarding the online course, we ordered it and my H ultimately would not do it, but I recall that getting started, there were videos that we could watch from the computer. My H somehow was able to have them appear on the TV. The part's we did watch were really good/helpful.

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I just want to make an important point and that is that UA time doesn't count [because it is ineffective] unless done in 2-4 hour blocks. This is why Dr Harley recommends 4 hour "events." Getting bits and pieces here and there don't add up to effectiveness. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2396652#Post2396652

I say this because there have been couples on this forum - always in bad marriages - who counted things like passing in the hall, phone calls, etc. In other words, they changed nothing but just cleverly counted every passing moment so they could check the box.


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
They're great babysitters as long as they don't have to do bedtime or be responsible for much besides the basics.

It sounds like some training/incentives are in order. Otherwise you'll need to import babysitters.

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Originally Posted by AnyWife
I had a feeling he left pretty early.

How far away does he work? Is there any way you could do lunch dates? (I'm probably dreaming, but if they feed him at work, maybe the have on-site daycare too...) If it's logistically realistic, you might even take a homemade lunch in to him to save money over the cost of eating out.

Regarding the online course, we ordered it and my H ultimately would not do it, but I recall that getting started, there were videos that we could watch from the computer. My H somehow was able to have them appear on the TV. The part's we did watch were really good/helpful.

He works about 30 min away, or so. But he doesn't have set lunch time, it varies every day, and without disclosing too many personal details, it's not somewhere I'd be permitted to go and eat with him.

We did get the login info for the course in our email today so hopefully we can start ASAP. If we had to wait a week or so to give it a full day, would you guys recommend we wait, or go ahead and get started after the kids are in bed tonight?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I just want to make an important point and that is that UA time doesn't count [because it is ineffective] unless done in 2-4 hour blocks. This is why Dr Harley recommends 4 hour "events." Getting bits and pieces here and there don't add up to effectiveness. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2396652#Post2396652

I say this because there have been couples on this forum - always in bad marriages - who counted things like passing in the hall, phone calls, etc. In other words, they changed nothing but just cleverly counted every passing moment so they could check the box.

Thanks for the link, I read the article. This is why we went with MB over every other marriage program out there, because these concepts do resonate with us. I KNOW that I would want sex if our marriage was good. I am not, despite some of my husband's AO where he's called me so, asexual. I do think that if we put the time into making our marriage great, our sex life would be also.

Last night my husband was kind of obsessing over the sex thing again and the fact that I got advice to hold off on sex until I actually want to have it. What IF we do all this and you still don't want sex? What IF you just have a low sex drive? What IF your ideal for enough sex is once a month and mine is twice a week? Why is it ok for you not to have sex when you don't want to but it's not ok for me do pick and choose? Can I just pick one of your EN that I don't have to meet until we have SF??

I basically told him I don't think we should be worried about what ifs before we've even tried the program and that Dr. H said that in 90% of cases, healing the marriage brings a satisfying sex life.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I just want to make an important point and that is that UA time doesn't count [because it is ineffective] unless done in 2-4 hour blocks. This is why Dr Harley recommends 4 hour "events." Getting bits and pieces here and there don't add up to effectiveness. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2396652#Post2396652

I say this because there have been couples on this forum - always in bad marriages - who counted things like passing in the hall, phone calls, etc. In other words, they changed nothing but just cleverly counted every passing moment so they could check the box.

I think I understand and in agreement with the types of activities that would count vs ones that wouldn't. Discussing a favorite TV show would count, but watching it next to each other wouldn't. Basically it needs to be where you're completely focused on each other, not other people or other things. That's not hard for me to understand because I do WANT that kind of time together and it makes sense to me that marriage without it will suffer.

The part I've been having a hard time with is 4 hour chunks outside the home 4 times a week (or 6 times for a marriage not in love then??). Still struggling with that one.


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Originally Posted by DidntQuit
Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
They're great babysitters as long as they don't have to do bedtime or be responsible for much besides the basics.

It sounds like some training/incentives are in order. Otherwise you'll need to import babysitters.

I can see why you'd say that, but 3 is a really hard age. All of my kids have been very difficult at 3. I've always said there's no such thing as terrible 2s, it should be called terrible 3s. Bedtime is very difficult for ME as the mom, and my 3 year old often doesn't want to cooperate with ME, so I know it would be unfair to expect my 13 and 11 year olds to do it, especially more than half the week. The 5 year old will often also feed off the 3 year old's defiance.

This is what I mean, I truly do not understand the concept of having other people handle homework, dinner, and bedtime 40% of school nights and 100% of weekend nights, overall nearly 60% of evenings in my home should be outsourced.

Let me state again: this is not an argument or being argumentative. I just don't get how I can be asked to do this.

I saw another thread while researching UA where people were telling writer1 to post flyers in her apartment complex to find someone to babysit her toddler. I just feel that is terrible advice and I would never feel comfortable doing that. I would never leave my child, especially one that young, with someone I found that way Heck, it's a risk even when you DO know someone well. We had a teen in our extended family molesting younger kids. It was incredibly traumatizing for the whole family and has made me very cautious.


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Originally Posted by 13yearsdown
Let me state again: this is not an argument or being argumentative. I just don't get how I can be asked to do this.

You are being argumentative when you've been told OVER and OVER this is a key component to the program. That's what Dr Harley and posters who've had success with MB have found.

Others have found a way to make it happen.

It's up to you and your H to brainstorm and figure out a solution. Complaining about it again and again isn't helping. If anything, you are going to start alienating posters from wanting to help you.


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