I must start by warning you that this may be a long post. I feel like I must give you all available information in order to get an informed opinion.

I'm in a committed, and by most measures loving, relationship. What the relationship lacks is any form of intimacy or SF. To get the whole picture, I must start from the beginning. Before I move on, I'll answer your first question(as if it matters). No, we're not married. We have lived together for about 5-1/2 years, after having "dated" for a number of months beforehand. Now then, on with the situation.

We met online and had numerous conversations on the phone and Facebook before we met in person. She told me that she is a dialysis patient(and waiting for a new kidney)and everything that goes with that(or so I thought). Shortly after our first date, I even offered to be tested to see if I was a match to give her one of my kidneys(I am a match, but still not compatible...a story for another website). In the coming months, we spent as much time as possible together. We realized that we had nearly everything in common, so much so that we could reach no other conclusion than that we were "meant to be". We were intimate(including SF)nearly every time we were together. Everything seemed wonderful, and it was.

When we moved in together, the greatness continued, for awhile. Not too long after, SF became less frequent. She started with the excuse that dialysis treatments took so much out of her that she didn't have the energy for SF. That's completely understandable. Hence, I stopped trying to initiate SF on treatment days. Going further, I noticed that she rarely, if ever, initiated SF. When I asked her about this, she told me that she's never been good at initiating SF. I found it odd, but whatever. If always having to be the aggressor, where SF is concerned, is all it took, no sweat. However, when I would try to initiate SF, the number of times that she would decline SF started to increase. We had gone from having sex every day(when we first moved in together)to less and less frequent. At some point, I had a discussion with her about the infrequency of our SF. It was then that she told me that when her original kidneys were removed at age 7, her adrenal gland was removed, also. That's because the adrenal gland is attached to the kidney. She told me that adrenaline is necessary for a person to have a sex drive of any kind. She told me that it wasn't ME that she didn't want, it was just the SF that she didn't want. The first time we had this conversation, she admitted to me that there was an issue, that it was her fault, and promised to get better. At the time of our first talk about the sex issue, we were probably having sex once a week. After admitting to being the cause of the problem and promising to get better, we'd have sex once(usually within 24-48 hours after our talk). Then it'd go right back to the celibacy, and the excuses for not wanting it. Sort of made me feel like it was "pity" sex...just enough to appease me for a day or two, and then back to the norm. I'd let it go for a week or two, trying to initiate SF on occasion(but never on a treatment day). Invariably, I'd get shot down. The fellas here understand what that does to the male ego. When I felt like we had gone long enough, or that I'd been shot down enough times, I'd have "the talk" with her again. Again she'd admit that the fault was hers, admit that she wasn't giving me what I needed, promise to get better, and start the cycle all over again.

With each time that I tried to initiate SF, and got shot down, my interest in asking for it would diminish, causing me to decrease the frequency of trying to initiate.

I feel that, here, I should remind you that in nearly every other aspect of our lives, we are compatible. We like almost all of the same foods, the same types of TV, same movies and music(with the exception of Elvis...she doesn't like Elvis, which I'm pretty sure is grounds for divorce in a lot of states), we laugh at each others jokes, finish each others sentences(we even know what the other is talking about when one of us says "you know...the stuff...for the thing"), and can have fun doing just about anything together. In almost any situation that doesn't involve SF, we are just fine. We have never had a heated argument. Neither of us has ever even raised our voices with one another. We are both non-confrontational. We've always seemed to be able to work things out on the rare occasions that we've disagreed about something. Except for SF, that is(but even in this area we haven't had an argument).

I should tell you that when we were having sex, even with the diminished frequency, it was incredible sex, at first. Eventually, it felt like she was forcing it. It felt like she was about as excited about it as when you take out the garbage. I don't have to tell anyone how bad sex is when it's clear that the other person is just going through the motions. It can even cause a person to fantasize about someone else while engaged with our SO. Her actions of just laying there was a huge turn off for me, adding to my reason(s) for not initiating SF as often.

On and on it went. Discussion about the lack of intimacy, a "pity" screw a few days later with her being little more than a masturbatory aid, her acting like a hero since she gave in to my advances, another long stretch of no sex, then another discussion.

At some point, I told her that I needed her to be the aggressor from time to time. Her response to this was that she isn't very good at that. (Sorry if I already said that...I went to sleep while typing this)

The frequency of our SF went from weeks apart, to months, to several months. There was always a new excuse, some other source of stress in her life causing her to not want sex, or some reason why she couldn't have sex. Mind you, she has had some medical issues, some that really preclude her from having sex. She battled abdominal "cramps" for a long time(I put "cramps" in quotes because I told her, and she agreed, that they weren't just cramps, that there was something worse going on). The "cramps" turned out to be poly-cystic ovaries. Doctors refused to give her a hysterectomy due to her relatively young age, even though we assured them that we had no intention of reproducing. Finally, we found a surgeon who agreed to perform the surgery.

On May 5, 2015, two days before her surgery, we had sex. After the surgery, she wasn't supposed to have intercourse for 8 weeks. She was cleared, by the surgeon, to resume "normal" sexual activity at her 8 week follow-up. Despite a number of attempts by me, May 5, 2015 was the last time that we were intimate. We were right back into the same old cycle. A few months after the surgery, I told her that I wasn't going to initiate SF any more. I told her that, if there was to be any intimacy, it would have to be initiated by her. I was just tired of being shot down.

I am a firm believer that the best predictor of future performance is past results. Therefore, I believe that, unless I initiate SF, it'll never happen again. My sex life, for close to 2 years, has been one-handed. Masturbation, y'all say, is counterproductive to a healthy sex life. Maybe so. I submit that without masturbation, I'd go crazy.

It should be stated that I love this woman. I am IN love with this woman. I haven't stepped out to have my sexual needs met. Not yet, that is. I don't want to cheat on her. I don't want to "divorce" her. I've considered a separation, but our finances won't allow either of us to live alone. Furthermore, I feel like I'd be the biggest [censored] on the planet if I told her that I wanted to end our relationship because of our lack of intimacy, which is, by her account, medically induced. I don't think it's her fault(her lack of a sex drive, that is). I've researched it, spoken with several doctors about it. It's a real thing, the lack of a sex drive in those who have lost their kidneys and/or are on dialysis. Some say just put her on hormones. Thought of that. The meds that she is on, due to her conditions, preclude her from taking any hormones. I'd feel like a huge jerk if I ended a great relationship based on something that she has little or no control over.

So, that's where I'm at. In a loving, sexless relationship, wanting to fix it.

Before I stop typing, I'll answer some of the questions that I've seen asked of other members.

Yes, I watch porn. Yes, I masturbate while watching porn. No, I didn't do this before the intimacy stopped. A fellas gotta do what a fellas gotta do. If it keeps me from stepping out, it sounds ok to me. Y'all probably have a different opinion, and that's ok. What I don't do is fantasize about someone else while masturbating. I fantasize about having toe-curling, earth-moving, rattle the walls sex with my SO.

No, I don't think she's having an affair. I did think that, for awhile. She has one male friend whom she has known since grade school. On a couple of occasions, she'd meet him, without me, for a drink, or lunch, just to catch up. For awhile I thought that maybe they were "hooking up". Then I realized that wasn't the case. I don't have any real evidence to base my belief that they never hooked up on. I never snooped or investigated. It's been a number of years since they met. I don't even think that they have spoken in at least a year. Is it possible that they did hook up? Sure. Is it possible that they are still in contact, but she sensed my displeasure in them meeting and is simply not sharing it anymore? Sure. However, I don't believe that this is the case. I base it on our current transportation situation(one car)and work schedules. I base it on the fact that I try to vary the times that I get home, so as to keep her off balance, so to speak. Most of the time, I text her to let her know that I'm on my way. Occasionally, I'll throw her a curveball and not text. She's always been home alone. No, that's not real evidence that there isn't an affair going on. However, it's all that I have.

Have I cheated on her? No. I stated that before, but inevitably someone will ask me, anyway.

It should be clear, to even the most casual reader, that, by far, my #1 EN is SF. It should also be clear that, no matter what lengths I have gone to initiate SF, to woo her, to flirt with her, nothing works. She will flirt and woo back, giving me hope that maybe, just maybe, she's going to initiate SF. Nothing.

Does she have male friends? Yes. I see no problem with this. She's not talking to any of them(that I can tell)one on one. She's not meeting any of them(that I know of). I firmly believe that she's not having any affairs, emotional or otherwise.

Do I have female friends? Certainly. As with her having men as friends, I see no problem with me being friends with other women. She sees no problem with it, either. If she had a problem with it, she certainly would have told me so.

Do I flirt with other women? Sure. Any man who says that he never flirts with any woman other than his wife, or woman who says that she never flirts with any man other than her husband, is a liar. Heck, I flirt with other women in front of my wife. She flirts with other men in front of me. I'm confident enough, secure enough in my relationship(believe it or not)that this is not a threat to me. If another man flirts with my wife, I take it as a compliment, because she's going home with me. I'm certain that many will take issue with this. So be it. I'm not inclined to budge on this aspect.

Have I been to a doctor to have my testosterone checked? Yes. Although, it should be clear to everyone that my test numbers are CLEARLY not an issue here.

Has she had her levels checked? Yes. As I stated previously, she can't take any sort of hormones to combat her imbalance(or whatever you call it).

Do I have any ED problems? None at all.

I'm all out of questions. If you have more questions(that aren't addressed already), please feel free to ask. I'll feel free to answer.

Desperate for help. Thank you, in advance, for your help and opinions.

Welcome to MB.

I'm interested in your thread title: "who needs to change?". Why do you phrase the issue as somebody "needing" to change?

Do you think you can say to your girlfriend that she needs to change and have sex with you? Do you think that would work?

Do you think it would work for someone to say to you that you need to change, and to stop wanting to have sex with the woman you are living with? That you should be celibate for life?

You are in a relationship that is not working out. You do to have to stay in it. You and she are both free to walk away. I can see, from what you have written, that you don't want to do that, but ultimately, that's what the choice comes down to in every relationship. If it isn't working out, you are free to leave.

What you can't do is order someone to change.

MBers correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Dr. Harley's stance on SF before marriage is it's not a terribly good idea. Likely to land you in renter-land that never leads to becoming buyers. And even if I'm wrong there he definitely does not suggest cohabitation before marriage for basically the same reason.

But beyond that, this is of interest:


The advice of this program is to enter dating as a freeloader, which is about as far away from "offer your kidney to someone you barely know" as it gets. Yes, you talked online/on the phone for however long, but that's still way beyond reasonable for only knowing someone that long.

You aren't bound to this person, you're just dating. Walk away. It's not going to magically change if it hasn't yet, even with Herculean efforts on your part.

I married a person who was a lot like this about kissing and SF...hot and cold, mostly cold. Didn't change at any point in the 7 years we were together. Learned what I could from this program about how to identify and meet emotional needs during our divorce.

With someone else now (after taking care to date several women as a freeloader and ONLY settle for someone who met my needs easily and vice versa!)and it's crazy how much different it is. We don't have sex (because we aren't married yet) but for my girlfriend kissing, cuddling, everything short of sex is a high EN for her like it is for me.

And it's great. Can't tell you how great it is coming from what I came from. Only wish I would have tried that years ago.

My $.02....you're trying way too hard and there are SO many fish in the pond. Start over with someone who's less work for you. Do it before you lose 5 more years of your life. Do dating the right way, this program (and Dr. Harley's book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders) has an excellent outline to follow. Don't settle, there's a woman out there somewhere who will never put you through this if you take care of her. And after you find her, don't wait 5 years to put a ring on her or she might ditch you!

Have you read this?
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

You went on and on an on as if giving us details about why she will not have SF with you matters. What I am reading here is that you are frustrated you she will no longer sacrifice to make you happy.

She won't have sex with you likely because she has fallen out of love with you. Making her sacrifice at her expense is a very bad habit to establish in any relationship.

My recommendation is to break up and figure out how you can learn good habits for a relationship ... BrainHurts provided good links to this.

Yeah. I don't think we can help you, unless you are willing to make radical changes to the way you view marriage ...