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Originally Posted by Nobitterness
That's interesting

That conflicts with what I read in his need her needs, as well with my conversation with Harley's office in the past

Plan B also worked for me in the past to end one of my wife's past affairs

I have never heard Dr Harley tell a poster to use Plan B as a means to end "an affair" when dealing with a serial cheater.

I have personally spoken to Dr Harley on the radio show and via his coaches (I have done the online program) about Plan B and also about my serial cheating ex WH. What he told me corresponds with what MelodyLane posted to you and with what is in his article about serial cheaters.

Look:
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
So whenever the spouse of someone with multiple affairs asks me what he or she can do to help save their marriage, I must tell them that the procedures we recommend will work for those who want to stop cheating. Our program will help them achieve that objective. But if they don�t want to follow our program, I have to assume that they will continue to have affairs for the rest of their lives. And their spouses should assume the same thing. To avoid the suffering that comes with infidelity, I encourage them to divorce as soon as possible
Link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_serial.html

If your WW is not willing to do the program and implement EPs that will make a SSL and affairs IMPOSSIBLE, then you should just divorce her. It is really that simple.


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Read this and listen to the radio clips at the end of the thread. Serial Cheaters


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NB,

Your story isn't very different from mine, so I will share a part of it with you as it relates to your current struggle:

Like you, I did a Plan B and divorced my WW. When my wife's affair crumbled, we reconciled and remarried after she agreed to extraordinary precautions and implementing the MB program. Four years later she had another affair and left again. I am back in Plan B and I will not reconcile again. Like you, I believe in vows, and and that is why I chose to reconcile the first time. But I now see that she is a serial cheater, and I will not continue to be her victim. Betrayed spouses deserve much better than this.

As far as Plan B goes, here is my perspective. My first Plan B was a success, because I had left the door open for reconciliation during Plan A and in my Plan B letter. So my WW knew she had a soft landing place. During Plan B I was dark, but the door was left open. And when the time came, we had a beautiful--if temporary--reconciliation.

But when I discovered her new affair that door closed. Even though I wrote my WXW a second Plan B letter with a very loving tone, I didn't write it with the plan of reconciling with her. I do not desire reconciliation even though a part of me still loves her and even though it is very hard to accept the death of that which is most sacred: marriage. I am dark for life, and I am moving forward. It's been December since we last spoke, and we have been divorced since early March. I still mourn the loss of my marriage, but fits of despair and resentment are now fewer and farther between. It does get better once you cut off all contact. Though I am still deeply saddened by all that has happened, I feel at peace because I am no longer tethered to her harmful ways and I have taken the steps necessary to build a new life for myself--freedom--while at the same time enjoying the fullness of fatherhood with my two daughters. They are a blessing and so is my extended family, my friends, and the people I work with and worship with.

Your personal recovery is a process, and we have to accept the hurt and sadness that goes with it. But if you follow the plan, stay dark, and work on your personal recovery, stay strong and loving for you children, find meaning in your life outside of marriage, and count your blessings daily you will grow stronger and find true happiness down the road.

I wish you all the best.


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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
As far as Plan B goes, here is my perspective. My first Plan B was a success, because I had left the door open for reconciliation during Plan A and in my Plan B letter. So my WW knew she had a soft landing place. During Plan B I was dark, but the door was left open. And when the time came, we had a beautiful--if temporary--reconciliation.

I just want to make sure we don't add to his confusion about Plan B. He thinks the purpose of Plan B is to save a marriage and it is not. It does not and cannot save a marriage. [especially when it is a WW verus a WH]

What it can do is protect the mental health of the betrayed spouse. That can be valuable in many ways. For example, if a spouse has decided on divorce, it provides them peace of mind. If a BS decides to reconcile in the future, it protects their mental health while the affair dies a natural death. What it does not do is save a marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
NB,

Your story isn't very different from mine, so I will share a part of it with you as it relates to your current struggle:

Like you, I did a Plan B and divorced my WW. When my wife's affair crumbled, we reconciled and remarried after she agreed to extraordinary precautions and implementing the MB program. Four years later she had another affair and left again. I am back in Plan B and I will not reconcile again. Like you, I believe in vows, and and that is why I chose to reconcile the first time. But I now see that she is a serial cheater, and I will not continue to be her victim. Betrayed spouses deserve much better than this.

As far as Plan B goes, here is my perspective. My first Plan B was a success, because I had left the door open for reconciliation during Plan A and in my Plan B letter. So my WW knew she had a soft landing place. During Plan B I was dark, but the door was left open. And when the time came, we had a beautiful--if temporary--reconciliation.

But when I discovered her new affair that door closed. Even though I wrote my WXW a second Plan B letter with a very loving tone, I didn't write it with the plan of reconciling with her. I do not desire reconciliation even though a part of me still loves her and even though it is very hard to accept the death of that which is most sacred: marriage. I am dark for life, and I am moving forward. It's been December since we last spoke, and we have been divorced since early March. I still mourn the loss of my marriage, but fits of despair and resentment are now fewer and farther between. It does get better once you cut off all contact. Though I am still deeply saddened by all that has happened, I feel at peace because I am no longer tethered to her harmful ways and I have taken the steps necessary to build a new life for myself--freedom--while at the same time enjoying the fullness of fatherhood with my two daughters. They are a blessing and so is my extended family, my friends, and the people I work with and worship with.

Your personal recovery is a process, and we have to accept the hurt and sadness that goes with it. But if you follow the plan, stay dark, and work on your personal recovery, stay strong and loving for you children, find meaning in your life outside of marriage, and count your blessings daily you will grow stronger and find true happiness down the road.

I wish you all the best.

Thanks! Your story has gave me great comfort. I believe I need to keep moving forward building a new life. The problem I have is that I keep looking back at all the great things we have done together .....hence the reason for my username


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You can't live in the past. You are not the one demolishing the ideals you set for marriage and family. That is your WW's doing, and you can't control her. You can only control you.

I understand the grief you are experiencing. For me acceptance was the very hardest part of the grieving process. Accepting broken vows and the destruction of one's family comes very slow, if ever. But, again, you can't control you WW's actions and mindset.

As I said in an earlier post to you, don't look back. In the book of Genesis, Lot's wife looked back and was turned into a pillar salt. This biblical metaphor powerfully illustrates what happens when we let the destructive past hold us prisoner. Don't make the past your prison. Instead, build a strong Plan B and allow yourself to recover and find new freedom. If you do this the right way you will have solace and peace.

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
....... In the book of Genesis, Lot's wife looked back and was turned into a pillar salt. This biblical metaphor powerfully illustrates what happens when we let the destructive past hold us prisoner. Don't make the past your prison. Instead......

Well said



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
As far as Plan B goes, here is my perspective. My first Plan B was a success, because I had left the door open for reconciliation during Plan A and in my Plan B letter. So my WW knew she had a soft landing place. During Plan B I was dark, but the door was left open. And when the time came, we had a beautiful--if temporary--reconciliation.

I just want to make sure we don't add to his confusion about Plan B. He thinks the purpose of Plan B is to save a marriage and it is not. It does not and cannot save a marriage. [especially when it is a WW verus a WH]

What it can do is protect the mental health of the betrayed spouse. That can be valuable in many ways. For example, if a spouse has decided on divorce, it provides them peace of mind. If a BS decides to reconcile in the future, it protects their mental health while the affair dies a natural death. What it does not do is save a marriage.

Have to respectfully disagree

It's well known that "no contact" helps erase negative memories and can cause the wayward spouse to reconsider

There is science behind it and many people have used this technique as a starting point to restore their relationship

Wooing a women causes you to chase them, which many find weak and repulsive



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Originally Posted by Nobitterness
Have to respectfully disagree

It's well known that "no contact" helps erase negative memories and can cause the wayward spouse to reconsider

There is science behind it and many people have used this technique as a starting point to restore their relationship

You are incorrect. I am not sure where you got this idea. It didn't come from Dr Harley. What Dr Harley does say is that the risk of divorce is HIGHER in Plan B because "out of sight is out of mind." It is easier for the other spouse to forget about her spouse. The entire purpose of Plan B is to protect the betrayed spouse from the emotional and physical fallout of an affair.

A post to a member on the private forum about Plan B:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"The primary reason you are in good shape emotionally and physically is that you have been in plan B for a year. It's not designed to save your marriage -- it's designed to keep you healthy while giving your husband more time to find his way. If he doesn't see the light, divorce is inevitable, but at least you would be protected by plan B. Quite frankly, when someone is in the fog, plan A really doesn't help much. The affair must die a natural death before the fog lifts, and that can take longer than a year.


In What is Plan A and Plan B:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

So one of the most important reasons for a spouse, particularly a wife, to go from plan A to plan B is to protect herself from the physical effects of long-term and intense stress.

Now, he does say that you should close your Plan A on a good note so that this is the last thing your spouse remembers, however, DR Harley never says that Plan B can lead to reconciliation, because it does not.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
here



Quote
Wooing a women causes you to chase them, which many find weak and repulsive

This is completely contradictory to anything Dr Harley has said. He recommends that betrayed husbands COMPETE for their wives because that is the most effective path, if reconciliation is possible.

My suggestion would be to read his materials and/or email him at the radio show if you need clarity. You can reach him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Nobitterness
There is science behind it and many people have used this technique as a starting point to restore their relationship

Yes, I am one of those people. I have met Dr Harley, been through his program years ago and have been on this forum every day helping people for 16 years. I know the science and have a great marriage to prove it. Never does he claim that the purpose of Plan B is to restore a marriage. It just is not.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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**EDIT**

Please familiarize yourself with the Marriage Builders concepts and the TOS. Our terms of service state that you will post Marriage Builders concepts and not personal philosophies.

Last edited by Denali; 05/15/17 07:01 AM. Reason: TOS removing non MB advice

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I'm confused. If you just had an intimate date with your wife then you are not in Plan B.

To be clear NB, once no contact is initiated it is for life. If a spouse comes back and asks to reconcile and recover the marriage, then one does so with the assurances that the wayward spouse ends contact for life and Extraordinary Precautions are put in place. Otherwise, the betrayed spouse should remain out of contact and not break silence.

It sounds like you are being gaslighted by your spouse. I do not understand how you can possibly have recovered your marriage with all the history. This latest date sounds to me like another chapter in your very long and tragic ongoing saga.

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Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
I'm confused. If you just had an intimate date with your wife then you are not in Plan B.

To be clear NB, once no contact is initiated it is for life. If a spouse comes back and asks to reconcile and recover the marriage, then one does so with the assurances that the wayward spouse ends contact for life and Extraordinary Precautions are put in place. Otherwise, the betrayed spouse should remain out of contact and not break silence.

It sounds like you are being gaslighted by your spouse. I do not understand how you can possibly have recovered your marriage with all the history. This latest date sounds to me like another chapter in your very long and tragic ongoing saga.

Maybe. But I have nothing to loose by trying once more. Going straight to a divorce will cost me over $3,000 month in child support and alimony and at least $15,000 in legal fee's. I am a stronger man this time around without my emotions controlling fear. I am aware of my own flaws I need to fix, wether I am with her or not. She no longer has power to gaslight me since I am only looking for her actions not what she says.

I didn't say I recovered my marriage, but what I did do is make her attracted to me again.

Is it Dr. Harley formula, no. But "no contact" works in getting the other spouse to second guess themselves.


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A reminder that the purpose of our forum is to discuss Marriage Builders concepts. It is not a platform for personal philosophies. If you have no intention of using these concepts we will lock this thread.


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**EDIT**

Last edited by Denali; 05/15/17 07:56 AM. Reason: TOS arguing with moderator

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You are reading the wrong book. Read Surviving an Affair.l

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If you're not here to follow MB then why are you here?

Has your WW agreed to all the EPs?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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