Berry - I read your other posts - got so long I decided to start another one....<P>I still work with my ex-affair partner. I see him everyday and often we still lunch together as part of small groups. Most days WERE still very hard in the beginning- we have been clean from one another for around eight months or so now. At first the thought of sitting with him at the same table made me nervous and my stomach fluttered. We remained friends for the entire time and he too was my best friend for a while.<P>Now, we fight a little and keep discussions to business only and are cordial and laugh together if lunching in small groups. We have been fighting lately over work items(which helped pull me out of the emotional roller coaster) but I must admit that there are still days which triggers make me remember the things we shared (hate to admit that too).<P>I regret this entire event because I need to and I know what's right; I am working on my marriage and really know that if ever given to oppty to be with the OM that we would kill each other. I wish I had known about the pain of affairs before I became so caught up in it.<P>I am doing good though- even though I see him every day we have managed to be cordial friends and we no longer share every detail of our days. The best advice I can give you is to cut off communication with your other man and focus on your husband. It is not perfect but I do love my husband and things are a little better each day.<P>Scuba<p>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 29, 2001).]

Dear Scuba,<P>I don't know if you know me, but I have been on this board, first as "new_beginning" and now with this name, for a total of nearly two years. I was a WS with a man from work, and my ex-H was a WS five times, at least. I would like to speak to you as another WS who worked with the OM. I was married for 18 years when I cheated.<P>I had a three month affair which resulted in a trip to a hotel room one time, which was enough to wake me up and realize what a mistake I was making - and I mean, I literally went home from the hotel, cried in the shower, barfed, and told my then-H about it all that night. The rest of my story is spread all over 3000+ postings here, but that isn't what I'm here to tell you... and yes, I'm getting to that! <P>I left my job 18 months after the affair ended. I had a very similiar situation to yours, in that I worked so closely with the OM that lunches with small groups, work discussions, and private talks were almost impossible to avoid. I also thought he was my best {new} friend at the time, and I did many of the things you are doing to make our working relationship "workable" as ex-affair-partners. <P>On the day I left the job, he asked to speak to me privately, and I allowed it. I was moving far away and figured I'd never have to deal with him again, and why not let him say his peace. He told me, "I love you, I always loved you, I will always love you". Would you like to hear that from your OM? I mean, seriously, think about that a second. In your heart of hearts, would you like to hear those words? <P>I was over him... and my marriage was over too {although I still carried a love for my ex-H}... and I no longer wanted anything to do with him... but it felt strangely nice to hear it.<P>So, now that I've been gone, and I mean really gone, from the job for 9 months, I look back at that day and I feel sick all over again. I had never TRULY gotten over him, because there was still contact. I still keep in touch with a couple of friends from the job, and one in particular tells me that OM says Hi, or Bye, or How are you, any time he knows she's talking to me. I ignore it. Like if we're IM'ing and she says, OM says Hi, I say "How's your dad?" back to her. I mean I IGNORE him. I have NO DESIRE to EVER speak to him again. But that couldn't happen unless I was GONE. I honestly think I hadn't fully gone through withdrawl until I left!! Now THAT'S sad!!<P>I would suggest you really think about finding another job. I learned TOO LATE...<P>I hope it's okay to jump in and say this... your post just touched me.<P>Good luck to you... this is a difficult path you have chosen.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Nyneve:<P>It is so awesome that you posted...please post anytime. I have considered leaving my job but this is the best job I have ever had, and you have raised many good points.<P>It took other man and I a few attempts to finally stop all of this; finally - emotionally it took a toll on me and the sadness that I felt (both missing him and guilt of it all and hurting my husband) became so overwhelming that I just had a meltdown.<P>Other man would/will never ever tell me that he loved me - he told me once that even if I feel that way I will never tell you. My husband never tells me that he loves me and we were all discussing that at lunch one day so OM knows that it would hit a difficult spot for me. I think he knows how fragile I am. I honestly dont know what I would do if faced with it but, would never leave my husband for him in a million years - ever. OM also has four children that always comes first... and Still...I know he is faced with things that trigger memories too and we dont even discuss those things. We try to keep everything on a business level. <P>I fear that your advice is right though....although I think we are strong enough to not go back to "that" there are days that I am still weak and must avoid him on those days at all costs. I hate it so badly - hate it hate it hate it. <P>I am sorry to hear your marriage didnt work out; i have never told my husband of this and since things are going well - I hope I never do. I am so beat from events this year that I wouldnt have the energy to fight anymore if it were revealed, and my husband deserves better than this. I will protect him regardless.<P>I never told anyone of the affair but my pastor's wife and the nice folks here - not even my best friend. It has been the most dishonest act I have ever done and there isnt a day that passes that I dont remember or am somehow reminded of it and sometimes I have anger - anger at myself for getting into this mess, and some days just sad over the whole thing and those days I make up an excuse that I have to run errands and cannot eat with the others.<P>I will write more later, but feel sad for you too; you lost not only your husband but your home and gave up your job. Those are many many change elements that just cause havoc. <P>How are you doing dealing with everything now? I will come back later....<BR>Scuba<P>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 29, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 29, 2001).]

Hi Scuba,<P>My credo is TOTAL honesty, although I did go through a short period where I wasn't honest with my then-H or anyone else {about three weeks} and it about KILLED me!! So, in the interest of being honest, I will tell you exactly what happened to me {the short version, you'll be happy to know }.<P>I was here on MB, like I said, about 18 months trying to fix my broken marriage. My ex had cheated about three times {could have been more} in the 80's and then cheated on me again {twice} after my affair. Again, it IS posted all over this place ~ every detail of my then-pathetic and hopeless life.<P>I did something very stupid, and I hope in the retelling you understand how it ruined {and then saved} me. I will say, before I write this, that anyone who cares about me on this board knows this story, and by and large I have been supported... but... I have been flamed up one side and down the other too... so take it as you will.<P>While I was posting, I met a friend {female} on these boards. She and I got very close. We helped each other through the process of rebuilding, as we had both been unfaithful. The difference in our situations was that her H had not cheated on her. But she and I clicked. We called each other soulmate sisters. Very close, as cyber-relationships go.<P>We both worked on our marriages, posting like crazy here. I won't speak about her, for confidentiality sake, but will only say that something happened on her end, and she felt her marriage was over. My ex kept seeing his final {5th} OW. I filed for divorce. My friend was unable to file for divorce because in her country {Canada} the couple has to be seperated for one year before filing can be done. She and her H seperated physically. <P>Her then-H and I had become friends {only} and began emailing, and doing the thing that we <B>never</B> should have ~ sharing about our failed marriages. The reason this should not have happened was because our divorces were not final, and we were legally {and morally} still married to others.<P>In the interest of brevity, I'll jump forward. He and I are now both divorced, and egaged to each other. I moved to Canada. <P>That's all I'll say about that... although I'm sure you have some questions, or maybe not... but if you do, ask. I can only say, once again, that the details are on this site, and if it interests you, certainly do a search on me. Just last week I had a few lively discussions with several people here.<P>So, I am doing fine. Has it been easy? No. Have I cried over the loss of my ex-H and ex-marriage? Yes, many, many tears. What isn't mentioned here, but is the hardest part of all this, is that I have children {two adult children and one son, 16 1/2} with my ex-H. They remained with their father. <P>My mother, who is a therapist, said something to me that made so much sense ~ She often gives an analogy that explains her position well: When you are on an airplane with a child and the oxygen mask comes down, you take the oxygen first and then give it to your child. You are no good to your child if you are passed out or dead. You'll both parish. I was dying, and I had to save myself. Although I am strong, I had hit the wall. I couldn't take care of me or anyone else~ not any more. <P>I have been asked, If I had to do it all over again, would I still tell my then-H about the affair that I had? Yes, I would. But I would have done it differently. I would have dragged his a$$ to a therapists office and done it there. Instead I was slapped, yelled at, pushed, stalked, and basically told I was worthless because I had an affair. He, on the other hand, could cheat all he wanted, because he's a man, wasn't getting his needs met. Whatever!<P>So, to get back to the original intent of my posts to you... you can imagine my surprise at this OM at work saying what he did. In my mind, the relationship we had was WRONG and UGLY ~ not beautiful or special. It takes a long time to get to that point.<P>I would very much encourage you to tell your H about the affair in a SAFE enviornment, perhaps with a counselor. It would let you begin with a clean slate ~ in YOUR head. That may seem strange since I went through such utter punishment when I told, but I still think it was the best thing to do.<P>Best wishes to you... <p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 29, 2001).]

Did I scare you with that last post? Tooo much info?? Sorry... I get carried away!<P>Best wishes to you <B>scuba</B>, and you too, <B>Berry</B>!<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 29, 2001).]

I cannot tell him...I am a coward. I also know that he would confront/tell OM's wife and I am partially protecting her as she is more fragile than me, and home-schooling four small children. She does not work outside their home.<P>I have so many emotions writing this that I have not revisited in a while. The magnet attraction to the OM was how sexually compatible that we were and that is a sticky one to discuss on these boards. It was unlike anything I have ever known.<P>My husband meets most of my needs but he has never told me (eight years of marriage) that he loves me and he really isnt interested in a totally satisfying sex life - well - from my concern. I have been very verbal about - (i like this or no- please not that..) he is responsive at that second but forgets ten minutes later, and we only make love about once every month or so. I have pretty much resorted to living without great sex and living with an emotional brick wall. I cannot compare the two men because they are very different, and so I just block it out. I want my marriage to work more than anything else but it will be HIS terms. I dragged him to marriage counselling and he didnt go back - and is watching some video tapes (building marriages) that I have and we will see as we seem to be making a little progress when we do watch them.<P>I must say that my involvement with the OM has made me more appreciative of my husband for the good and wonderful things about him that make him ..well HIM. It is not perfect but I am trying and still just try to get thru one day after another and focus on trying to work and just get thru the day. <P>What keeps haunting me in your message is that you truly felt like recovery didnt begin until he disappeared from your life. I think that I would miss him terribly - I have worked with him for five years - he is funny and so attractive that there were days that I would have grabbed him and ran out of that place to Tahiti to raise worms and live in a grass hut. Didnt care as long as he was there.<P>I am over that part of it and am grateful for each day that passes and not thinking of the "fog" anymore.<P>We have ground rules though and as long as we stick to them we hopefully will make it. Able to be cordial friends and nothing more....<P>keep posting...<BR>Scuba

Scuba,<P>They key phrase was yours <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that I would miss him terribly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If that is the case then you do need to be out of there to truely recover. I realize you can love your H and miss your sister terribly, or you family, BUT you really cannot be <BR>"just friends" with someone you slept with. It doesn't work.<P>You still do compare him to your H, and as you point out some of that is good, but part of it is very bad. Why? The sex, it was great with OM, not with your H. That can lead to you building up resentment over time.<P>You have done a very good job, but I suspect that unless you freeze the closeness you have with H right here, you will find that you will pull away from him as you grow to love him. Why? the betrayal will come to haunt you more. Jill found this out. The more she grew to love her H, the more her secret haunted her.<P>Finally, your H probably won't become the lover your OM was. Your H focuses on satisfying many of your needs, the OM focused only on you from a sexual standpoint. Believe me all of the empathetic conversation had a goal: getting you into bed. It worked, and it often does.<P>How do I know? I was a batchelor for many years. While I avoided married women, somethings seem to work frequently. Now as for the sex, you say you have tried telling you H what you need and he does it but forgets. I don't think he forgets.<P>I think he likes you telling him what you want. It enflames him to hear you tell him what you like and how you like it. This can be viewed as simply a difference in sexual style. Perhaps you could ask him if it "bothers" him when you tell him what you want. Then tell him that "while you like to be in control" sometimes you want him to control you.<P>Are you getting my drift here. Scuba, I suspect you have failed so see the possibilities here. You can make your sex life better. He won't be the OM, because he isn't the OM, but men by and large like to feel they have satisfied their W's/lover's.<P>I do think you will need to tell him. It must be in your time and his, but you will find that it will change your marriage dynamic (yeah big surprise there. ) but it may make him more aware of your needs. Right now he isn't geared into solving the problem because he doesn't preceive the problem. Yeah, I know you have dropped hints that you need more, but I will say something very non-PC here. <P>Have you looked at how his Mother acts, past girl friends, sisters. Are they sort of complaining types? Sort of letting the men in their lives of their needs all of the time? What I am saying is his lack of response to your requests may not have as much to do with you as how he has been conditioned. He truely may not preceive the problem, although you are certain you have made your unhappiness well known.<P>So think about all of this and listen to Sheryl she is a very good person.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<B>JL</B> is right about trying to be "just friends" with someone you've slept with... doesn't work, not really. I have told many people (mostly women, oddly enough) to quit the job and get away from the OP. I truly do advocate doing that. <P>As far as your reasons for not telling your H... are you afraid for a reason? ~ I mean, is there a reason, aside from the obvious, that you are afraid? ...and I do understand that, believe me! You know, it isn't your problem if the OM's wife is fragile (although I commend you for the caring you are showing about her feelings). You need to take care of YOU and YOUR FAMILY, not him and his family. So, I will say again that I believe you should tell your H, for HIS piece of mind, and yours. <P>Scuba, so often, spouses know the truth before you tell them. I was a BS, so I know. I remember thinking, "what's wrong?" for months before I found out about my then-H's affairs... he'd talk about someone at work, and there was a different tone in his voice or a special glint in his eye... I JUST KNEW. I bet your H knows *something* is going on, but not what exactly. In a way, that's very unfair because he is trying to save your marriage without knowing what's wrong, and what's at stake. He needs to know. I don't say this judgementally, but as someone who's been on both sides. <P>Please think about this...<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 29, 2001).]

JL - you have given me very good advice in the past and I appreciate your openness.<P>There arent any past ex-girlfriends for my husband - I was his first. Both of his sisters are very quiet and somewhat withdrawn women, they are twins and older than my husband. His mother seems never to be truly happy but she gives her whole soul to anything that she does but she too is withdrawn and rather quiet. I think that is what my husband loved about me - I am really talkative and outgoing and seemed to be "life" to him. He has told me that before too.<P> I have been friends with OM for so long before we got tangled in the affair that somehow I hoped that we could return to just being friends. You are right - it is difficut and maybe impossible. You are also right that this OM walks a very thin tightrope of when to say what - final goal is "bed"...I think that couldnt be more true. I was so pathetic and weak I couldnt stop it and knew how wrong it was....why is our strength to be strong so GONE sometimes when we need it most? I have yet to understand that still...and he said the right things and I melted. Not typical for me - a very stubborn - self sufficient person.<P>I have not experienced much sexually in my life - not before my marriage either. The OM was very wild during college and is very experienced. Aside from being a skilled sexual partner - he is very shallow and self centered. My husband is so much more - wish I could have seen it before the way I see it now. <P>I wish so very badly that I could have realized so much that was missing from my marriage before it snowballed into an affair. I can only try to repair it and move forward.<P>I am going to take you up on the advice for the sexual communication issues....I do initiate more these days and he is happy - I just somehow hope that he tries to be considerate of me.<P>Thank you so much JL....this was a great post and I appreciate the male perspective.<P>Scuba<p>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 30, 2001).]

Sheryl...<BR>There are so many thoughts racing thru my head now....OM has just returned from vacation today - back at work - has been gone for a couple of weeks.<P>We wound up on the elevator together today and your words crept into my mind of him ever just coming to me and saying that he loved me or always did - or something the way the OM did to you.<P>I would pass out; because to me I have believed that to him, I am a game. He really doesnt love me or know how to care about me, and he does love his wife and children. He married her when he was twenty and has some regrets but I know he loves her. He is a good conversationalist and has very funny sense of humor, and is a pretty good father. I expect nothing from him and if he said those words my world would crash down around me and I would fall apart. I would know then that it wasnt a game for him (it wasnt for me) and right now??? it is easier to believe that he looked upon it as a game. I have never told him that I am on paxil or that I post here or that I have cried many many nights....never. I would never allow him to know, but I know that I would respond by saying that I was sorry. I told him that I was sorry the entire thing ever happened. <P>In the end I apologized for everything - that was the beginning of being able for me to heal. I also would say (if confronted by him with words I couldnt handle) we could never have a life together and let it go. I would have to leave my job then because my facade would have crumbled and I wouldnt be able to pretend that he feels the way I imagine him to feel. <P>My mind is racing now.....feelings again that I dont want to think about anymore....Something that just crept into my mind was one thing he said to me quite a while ago. HE said - "I think some people go thru their entire life and never meet someone that they experience something so special as what I feel with you". At the time I agreed, but we never brought it up again..(SPIT)...fog fog fog. I did however tell him (more than once) that I was in over my head (before I knew it) and reality sets in of what I had become - and that it (the affair) is the most wrong thing I have ever done. He said - I know. (but nothing else). He has never apologized to me and we dont talk that way anymore - so there is really nothing else to be said about that part.<P>Oh no...I cannot start thinking about it anymore...gotta keep moving forward....<P>so many questions I want to ask you but maybe later.<BR>Scuba<p>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 30, 2001).]

Ah, dear Scuba, been there, done that... all of it.<P>Just for today, go forward. Maybe think of it as "Just for this <B>moment</B>", or second. <P>I will answer any questions I can for you...<P>It's good that you don't share about your thoughts, crying, fears about him. If it should come up, I think it would be good to say that you've found a safe place to discuss getting your marriage back on track, but don't say where, or anything about your withdrawl from him. <P>When you do tell your H, and I suspect you eventually will, things will have a way of straightening themselves out... either for the good (restored and better marriage) or not (divorce). Of course, I'm praying for the former!!<P>One time, about a year ago, we (WS's) had a thread about what we HATE about the OP. That whole "soulmate" thing clouds the bad stuff, huh? But you know what? When I really thought about it, I realized, as you are doing, I think, that it WAS REALLY all a game. Even when the OM came to me on that last day, I could see in his eyes he **meant** what he said, but he was still in the FOG. He never married his sig. other (he'd been married once before, burned by her cheating and vowed to never marry again ~ although, in typical fashion, he did say he wanted to marry me... go figure!). He had never slept with anyone else, but had kissed someone else, had emotional affairs with two other women, and then he did sleep with me that one time. His common-law marriage was basically doomed at the rate it was going. I feel sorry for his sig. other. She's hanging on by her toenails and doesn't realize it (or maybe she does?).<P>I am sending you good energy so that you can be strong, and some prayers to go with it.<P>Hang in there... this is only a stop on the pathway... you're doing good.<P>Hugs, <P>Sheryl

Thank you Sheryl....I must keep moving forward. We are leaving for the beach Friday morning for six days of rest and SCUBA diving....<P>Will keep you posted.<BR>Scuba

Dear Scuba and everyone,<P>Thank you so much for your insight and words of wisdom. Sorry, I haven't been around much. I was having a very difficult time after hearing about my co-worker running into OM. Things at work have been very busy & I've tried to stay off the computer at home (used to e-mail OM a lot, so it makes H wonder).<P>Anyway, June 7 was OM's birthday. Another very hard day. As some of you know from my previous posts, my H is now having an A. He went out after work & didn't come home that night. I really needed him home so I could focus on us & not OM's birthday. It was tough, but I didn't contact OM & was very proud of myself for that.<P>He still may be in my office next week though. Not sure how to deal with that. He often said he loved me & wanted to leave his W to be with me. However, he could never leave his kids.<P>I love my H very much & we are working things out. However, I still have a very sweet spot in my heart for OM.<P>Scuba, I don't know how you work with your OM & see him every day. You must be a very strong woman. I'm glad things are getting better for you & your H.

excuse me scuba,<BR>i hope you don't mind if i put aside my lurking ways to interject a thought here.<P>following the threads of your post has caused me to wonder if you realize that even though you're not still in the heat of your past affair, you're still leading the kind of secret life that is detrimental to a marriage?<P>your intentions seem so pure, yet, you still live a life of secrecy...not sharing who and what you really are with the partner in life that you've chosen. and the secrecy that you are gaurding so closely?...it's not just the kind that seems embarrasing to share. it is of the variety that effects every facet of your everyday behavior...the very fiber of who and what you are. in fact i would guess that your husband, at this point in time, doesn't have a clue as to who his wife is anymore. <P>at the very least, i'm sure he has no idea as to the personal pain you're living with...and if nothing else, your secrecy is preventing him from fulfilling one of the most important roles that a loving partner expects to preform...the role of giving support and being there for you...of sharing your burdens...of feeling needed.<P>i really feel that while you're not cheating on him, you are still cheating him. and as others are suggesting it is this act that creates distance and it's that distance that may eventually destroy all that you seem to want to preserve. <P>telling the truth about everything is certainly not the easiest road to choose...it just seems to me that if you truly want to preserve that which you say you value, it is the only road for you to take. <P>just my opinion<BR>poodlepapa

Scuba,<P>As a BS, I want to thank you for stopping the affair. Prayerfully you will NEVER know what it is like from this side.<P>But, I'm going to be a bit brutal here for your own good.<P><B>i have never told my husband of this and since things are going well - I hope I never do. I am so beat from events this year that I wouldnt have the energy to fight anymore if it were revealed, and my husband deserves better than this. I will protect him regardless.</B><BR>You will "protect" him? How nice of you. Does this mean you think he is weak & can't handle things himself?<P><B>I cannot tell him...I am a coward. I also know that he would confront/tell OM's wife and I am partially protecting her as she is more fragile than me, </B><BR>He's weak & you're a coward. And the OM's wife is weak too?<P><B>My husband meets most of my needs but he has never told me (eight years of marriage) that he loves me and he really isnt interested in a totally satisfying sex life - well - from my concern. I have been very verbal about - (i like this or no- please not that..) he is responsive at that second but forgets ten minutes later, and we only make love about once every month or so. I have pretty much resorted to living without great sex and living with an emotional brick wall.</B><BR>Have you ever thought that you're husband knows SOMETHING is/was wrong, but not exactly what? Perhaps that is a contributing factor for your "living without great sex and living with an emotional brick wall?"<P>From a betrayed spouse side of the fence, I agree totally with Sheryll,<BR>"I would very much encourage you to tell your H about the affair in a SAFE enviornment, perhaps with a counselor. It would let you begin with a clean slate ~ in YOUR head. That may seem strange since I went through such utter punishment when I told, but I still think it was the best thing to do."<P>Besides, my wife had at least 2 previous affairs. I believe that keeping them secret helped/enabled/forced her to be able to leave me & our girls (10 & 15) over 2 years ago. She has not seen them since May 99. She hasn't called them since Feb.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hi Chris,<P>Go over to Recovery and look for her post to me... Sheryl... she has begun the process of telling her H... go post there, I'm not sure she's coming here (to this forum) any longer...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino