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Joined: Jun 2001
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Hello everyone,<P>The other day when my wife was to go with her OM to the pizza joint, things changed. Apparently, he sent her some emails that she didn't get. Anyhow he conned her into giving out her username and password for her email account. Anyways, he logged in as her and pulled down her email and read it. One email was from me. It contained the phone number and contact name of a councellor she had requested from me. I also told her I was proud of her for seeing the councellor and that I loved her.<P>He read this. My feeling is that my wife has been playing the two of us. While with me she acts as if we are working things out. While with him she plays another roll. Persumably that roll is that we are separated, but living together, I don't know. Anyway, he read this email and suddenly cancelled their pizza engagement, stating he wasn't feeling well and couldn't go. My wife and I went out for dinner with her parents and a bunch of out-of-town guests instead.<P>Afterward we went home and she went off on a walk with the OM. I was a wreck. I had a lot of the responces I received to my last post running through my head and I thought it might be time to ask her to choose.<P>I made up the futon in the basement and went to sleep there, instead of our bed. When she came home and saw I wasn't anywhere upstairs she came downstairs. She saw me and asked why I was sleeping downstairs. I told her that I felt it was best until she decided clearly to have no contact with the OM. We had a small arguement. I remained calm.<P>She said seeing him is sort of like therapy. Everytime she sees him, she hates him more and sees how much of a jerk he is. I said, "So why don't you just end it then?" She said she will, but can't give a date.<P>Ultimately she told me they had a huge fight and wanted to come home and receive my love, my cuddling, etc. She told me she felt a closeness to me and could tell me things knowing I wouldn't judge her, because that is what I wrote in that letter I gave to her late last week. Now here I was going against my word.<P>I failed people. I gave in and went back to our room and cuddled with her. I guess I need work in that department.<P>Yesterday, I took the day off, to spend with the out-of-towners who were going back home yesterday night. We all went to a large mall. My wife found a stunning dress that she bought to wear for two weddings we have to go to this summer. She also blerted out that she will wear this dress to accompany OM to his brother's wedding. WHAT??????????<P>Just wait people here is some background info......<P>Before I found out about the affair and during my "fog" phase the OM asked if my wife would accompany him to his brother's wedding. Since I thought they were only friends. I didn't really care. Actually, my wife agreed to go even before she told me.<P>Now with everything out in the open. Plus the fact that OM's ex-wife has a restraining order against my wife so that she can't be around OM when he has his kid. I assumed that this wedding thing was off. I also assumed he would have his kid then too. Guess I was wrong. She is still planning on going.<P>WELL I'LL BE DAMNED IF SHE IS!!!!<P>I made my feelings known, but she says I am just being stupid. AM I?<P>My wife won't commit to breaking things off with the OM. She says it is going to happen, and soon, however I don't know when. OM is moving to a new house in September. She has told me she has plans of going over to his house once he has moved in to visit and see the place.<P>WHAT??????????<P>So if breaking things off is coming soon, I guess that won't happen till after September?<P>People, I am ready, very ready to go to the OM, three cubicles away from mine at the office here and tell him he MUST break up with her and do it the next time they plan to walk, or whatever, and that is it. Never speak to one another again. I am ready to do this!!!!!!<P>What is stopping me is my wife. She has told me she wants to handle things. However, with her handling things she maintains control of what is said and her game remains intact.<P>If I confront the OM, my wife will be very upset with me. I confronted the OM before and history has proven this. She blew up at me then, I was too in the "fog" and appologies greatly for my mistake.<P>Well not this time. As I see it I hold all the cards. If I confront the OM. I expose her game. I can bet you he has been fed a completely different version of everything. My wife will be mad at me, because of my confrontation. She will also be mad because I took matters into my own hands rather than letting her break things off, which would be whenever.<P>My wife will be extremely mad at me, however she does have the right to leave is she feels the need to. I'll show her the door. She can't kick me out of the house because, the house we live in is owned by her parents. We rent from them. Her parents are on my side. If they found out I was on the street, they would go to court to get her out and me back in the house.<P>Leaving for her, is not an option, she has no where to go but OM house. Even then she would have to go somewhere else when he has his kid. She's f*cked!!!<P>I can tolerate her being mad at me. Dobson states this is standing up to her. Hopefully, she will open her eyes and see that I am doing this for her own good, and because I love her. Maybe one day she will thank me. What do you all think I should do? What would you do in my situation?<P>Clearity in my confused mind would be a good thing!!!<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

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BRB, Okay i have been following your story for a few days now, i have not posted anything because well others state my opinions very well. I understand patience, and love, and understanding, But what i am not understanding is HOW you are letting her actually DATe another man while living with you trying to be the good guy so she will wake up and come back. You need to have a choice made, and soon. Why shoud she change a thing, she is getting all she wants, the excitement of the OM, you , and you doing what you can to make her feel better. She needs to grow up and pick a side. None of us live the life you are living, but the way you post things, She is getting the cake and eating it too, while you are getting the crumbs. It is only MY opinion, if i am way off the mark i am sorry, but that is how i am percieving it. SHe should have NO CONTACT, and that should be on YOUR terms as a couple not hers as an idividual,<BR>Maine

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Mainemade, you are not off the mark, i agree w/you. She is dating another man, telling you want you want to hear to bide her time to continue dating him. If she is starting to hate him so much, then why is she thinking of what to wear w/him to a wedding. If she hates him so much, why is she thinking of going to visit his new place. Sorry, but it is all talk to keep you in your place. And obviously if OM was upset at your email to YOUR WIFE, then she is telling him one thing and you another thing. That is typically how WS manipulate both the OP and the Spouse to keep the lies going.

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I'm with you totally. That is one for no contact. Everytime I bring up the "no contact" issue, she says I am being silly, she has already chosen me. She doesn't feel drawn to me when I raise that topic. Hense my fear to continue to bring it up because I don't want to loose her. Now I don't care. She can leave, but won't cause she has no where to go.<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

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You guys are missing my question. Should I confront OM, despite my wife's feelings? Or leave it. Bare in mind that my wife and I's 6 year anniversary is this Sunday.<P>HELP!!!<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

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BRB,<BR> OK explain how she thinks she has chosen YOU if she is still DATING the OM??? Last i checked marriage was 2 people and God. That sarcasm was not directed towards you at all BRB. She is playing the both of you for fools. She cannot hate and still make plans, if she was close to choosing, she would have broke it of with one of you. You need to step up to the plate and backup what you say in here. Tell her NO contact!! Then she can decide her fate. I do commend you for having a lot more patience and love than i would have if in the same situation. I for one am a lucky one, ( as lucky as a person can be when dealing with a WS) My H has NO contact at all, is very honest to me about things now, is an open book with all his email and letters and calls, is working so hard at building a better marriage with me, and i do not have to deal with an OW in the picture in any way in my life. Emotions are the hardest thing to get over and give over, and your W is KNEE DEEP in them, Get tough!!! You need a beginning to start to heal. WOW i am wordy again sorry for that.<P>------------------<BR>In even the darkest of places there is a capacity to love

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Confrontation with OP is wasted time and emotion.<P>It could backfire on you. It could draw them closer.<P>Look at it this way:<P>What could you gain through confrontation? What could you lose?<P>What could you gain by not confronting? What could you lose?<P>I think you'll see the results are pretty much the same...so why bother? In the short run you might feel better, but in the long run????<P>Confront OM here...get it all out, cause it's really not about HIM anyway. <P><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P><I> Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. </I><BR>1 Peter 5:6-7

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Blue,<BR>Don't confront the other man. If you all work together (very sticky situation), it could get ugly and public and create a big scene. This is not going to do anything for your self-esteem or make you look good to your W or anyone else at work.<P>You can't "make" the OM break up with your wife. But you CAN make your wife choose one of you but not continuing to allow yourself to be used. Tell her you love her, but kick her into Plan B. Don't go cuddling her after she comes back from walks with OM!!! What she is doing to you is bordering on emotional abuse. Obviously, what she's told you about the OM being a jerk and wanting to break things off is NOT true. She has no plans of doing it unless you force the issue. Plan B is the only thing you can do to make her choose.<P>I urge you to take immediate action!! But do not disgrace yourself by storming at OM. Your issues are with your W, not him. He didn't promise to be faithful to you, SHE DID.<P>Good luck!!! I'm pullin' for ya!!!<P>Calla

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OK sorry the question. I think that noone can tell you what is best for you. I would talk to the OM in a private non work setting, I know for me talking with the both of them would have been the best, but not an option. You are the keeper of your needs, and i would do what you think is best for you at the moment. It sounds selfish, but then again so is a WS that will not break contact and seems fine with that><BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>In even the darkest of places there is a capacity to love

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CALLA<BR> WOW i really agree with you and i love the part where you say the OM did not promise to be faithful to you, she did. That was so good, and makes such sense. <BR>Maine<P>------------------<BR>In even the darkest of places there is a capacity to love

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Your marraige is between you and your W. Not u, W and OM! But If you want to know if OM is getting the same line's that you are getting then I would Plan B, and send a letter to BOTH explaining why you are doing Plan B. Then OM will know that she has been feeding you both the same lines. I always thought that the Harley's said that Plan A will not work as long as WS is still seeing OP. That Plan B should be put into action if WS refuses to give up OP.

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As I keep reading your story I see you are getting more and more stepped on. Again maybe a minority opinion but you can see yourself that you are weak. Do you think a woman can respect a man that is this weak? She can play you easily. There is no reason for her to stop what she is doing because she is getting away with it. I wouldn't care what her feelings are or the feelings of the other guy. I think you should let them live together now. Let them be happy for awhile. Let them discover heaven (24 hours of each other). This would be the best punishment for your wife. Let her have exactly what she wants - this other guy. She doesn't deserve you. You are a very good husband. No husband would have your patience. A much better woman deserves to be your wife. You have a very good heart but you must learn to protect it. Don't let people step on you. The other guy and your wife are both stepping on you now. They are mocking you. They are mocking your marriage. It is a total joke. Well don't listen to me but this is how I would feel if I was the husband and I am also a very patient man who does not anger easily.

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OK, BRB, I let you down. I had suspicions about the pizza dinner the other day, but I didn't voice my concerns loud enough. This is why I recommended you go be the "referee" for the "argument."<P>Today, you have two issues: whether to confront OM and whether to "tough love" your wife. Let's take them one at a time.<P>I was unaware that you work with OM, much less are only three cubicles away from him. A confrontation sooner or later is inevitable. I think you should consider going to him in as much of a non-confrontational way as possible and ask him what he's doing with your wife. Remember, he may not know everything that you know about the affair. Explain to him that he is infringing on your marriage and ask him to back off. Do not threaten or imply violence. You're just getting it "on the record" so to speak. I agree with your conclusion that your wife has not been honest with either one of you, so you need to communicate to him that you have no desire of losing your marriage.<P>Regarding your wife, I really let you down. I should have been more suspicious of her behavior to you. You have one choice as I see it now. Explain to her that she either is going to work on the marriage or she isn't. If she is, she must end all contact with OM. Period. If she's not willing to do this, you're not prepared to work on anything with her. <P>Some will argue that if she's not willing to end contact, you need to kick her out. This could work, but others, including me, will suggest you do Plan A with her still around to see your changes.<P>So, I think you should go full bore with Plan A improvements on yourself. Get her input on what her complaints about your past behavior have been and make changes. Keep in mind her tendency to rewrite history, so filter what you hear accordingly, i.e., she may exaggerate past flaws, or come up with new ones. Demonstrate your changes. This needs to be done before any decision by her to move out. If she moves out, your response at that time may have to be Plan B - it's too soon to tell. The object here is to make changes in yourself and then show her the changes. This makes it easier for her to un-justify the affair.<P>WAT

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BRB:<P>In a word on confrontation: No. You can’t control him, you can’t control your W, you can only control YOU. Yes, she IS playing you ( I would say playing you BOTH, but this isn’t about him, and never will be), but you need to decide what you want.<P>As a quick aside, it’s your W who is “fogged” in... not you. Only the WS can be fogged. You can be <I>deceived</I> by her, but the fogged-in feeling is that the WS feels for the OP... they can do no wrong, all evidence in hindsight to the contrary. Trust me on this one.<P>You need to ask yourself a question... do you want to continue to be married... not to your W as she is now, but the woman you know her to be? If the answer is “yes,” then PLEASE discount the advice given you here by some well-meaning souls to give her an ultimatum or go to Plan B. The “throw the bum (or bummette) out” contingent speaks from frustration at your situation. A frustration I too share... but giving ultimatums to her at this time will only result in your divorce. The reason? She’s not thinking straight.<P>What you need to do is read this site as thoroughly as possible. Get copies of “Surviving an Affair” and “His Needs, Her Needs.” You need to Plan A your little heart out. Don’t mention the affair, don’t mention the OM. You don’t need to tell her to have a nice time when she walks out the door to him, but you <B>do</B> need to show her that your home and life with you is a safe haven for her to return to when the affair ends. She knows you know... mentioning it time and again will only drive her from you.<P>Meet her Emotional Needs. If she wants to snuggle, snuggle. If she wants to go for a walk with YOU, go for a walk. Avoid LoveBusters by not making disrespectful judgements. Don’t tell her at this point she HAS to have no contact... that time will come. From what I can see, you need to Plan A for a couple months, at least. The longer you can go without LoveBusting all over the place, the better your chance to recover your marriage. There simply <B>IS</B> no Plan B without a good, solid Plan A foundation... if you kick her out with an ultimatum, it’s merely a separation.<P>This isn’t about being a doormat to her, it’s about improving <I>yourself.</I> About showing her that you realize your part in the deterioration of the marriage, and are doing something about it. Yes, she will feel as if she’s having her cake and eating it too, but somewhere in the back of her fog-filled brain she will know that you are the safest place for her, and when it finally IS time to make that ultimatum, you will have shown her for a period of months that YOU are the one with whom she is meant to be.<P>I just can’t abide this “Make her choose NOW!” attitude... ultimatums at this point of the game will only destroy your chances for recovery.<P><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

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BRB,<P>You should probably be getting advice from a counselor for all of this, hopefully someone versed in the Harley approach to things. However, since this is a forum, I will give you my $0.02<P>First, have you done a good Plan A? If not do so. If you have and you are getting this, then it is time for Plan B. It is time for you to stop the bleeding down of your Love Bank, and it is time for her to find out what life without you will be like.<P>Other than spit on the OM, I would have nothing to do with him. He is not your problem as everyone has said. Your W is. She is really doing the dumb act so well. She acts as if you wouldn't be hurt by going for walks with OM. She acts as if you wouldn't be hurt by her going to a wedding with OM. Of course the plans for the fall when he moves into the new house, how could you possibly be bothered by that.<P>It is time for Plan B, in my opinion.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

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BRB,<BR>Your problem is not with the OM. It's with your wife. Confronting the OM is just a way to avoid confronting HER.<P>Sooner or later, you are going to explode with anger at the way she is treating you. It is horrible. No one should have to live like that. <P>Tell her NOW that she will get off the fence and choose either him or you -- and when she chooses him, don't let the door hit her s$$ on the way out.<P>She wants him? She's got him. Let her choke on him. THEN let her come back - but not before.<P>Stand up for yourself. Stop waiting for her to do it, because she won't.<P>Good luck - <BR>

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Hey BRB,<P>I thought that I would reply to this post because I did confront the OM and I can speak from experience. <P>At first I thought I could speak with a level head and just say what needed to be said. Not so. It's EXTREMELY hard to talk to an OM and have him tell you how much he loves your W. Doubly hard when he was a friend and coworker (still works with me). Anyway, I can honestly say (and I hope I don't get too bashed over this) that it was good for me, it somehow put and ending to atleast one chapter. I must stress to you that this is only my view on it. It most definitely will not be the majority, I'm sure. I did manage to beat him pretty badly and once even picking him up off the ground (I believe semi passed out) and continued the whoopin'. I managed to break my finger in two places and screwed up and already messed up wrist. I can only talk about my life, and I will leave yours up to you, but be warned of possible legal action if you do mess him up. Luckily, the OM in my case realized that he deserved every bump and bruise that I dished out, but that is usually not the case. If you think that you are just going there to talk to him, I would bet my next paycheck that it won't end that way. Make sure that you want to do this and why you want to before you act. Once you act, there is no turning back and no promise of peace. Think wisely , my friend, and good luck with whatever you choose. I will be around in you need me.<P>BTW, please don't think I am a violent man. I do not belive in harming a woman, but a man who oversteps his boundaries is another story. When backed into a wall, I will not bow down, only come out swinging. <P>Ciao,<BR>Jab

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Blue,<BR>Thanks for update!<BR>I am a conflict avoider & my initial instinct is to not confront OM, on other hand, if OM & your W see you as in there way of looking at this, a person unable or unwilling to stand up for appears so obvious to so many now as a totally wrong behavior for a marrried W; You have to somehow show some kind of strength. I agree with most here that you are not going to control this OM, but I feel you should at least let him know that this little thing is BS!Perhaps you state that he can do what he wants, but that you want him to understand that any future contact hi has with your W is not appropiate in your mind & that he needs to consider it confrontational between the two of you! <P>This may be way out of line and wasted energy, but do I recall that you are not sure if this is a PA & I get the impression you feel it is not -- Would it matter to you if it were? There seems to be a cloud here as to what exactly is there relationship. Here is wacky part, have you considered talking with OMW? I have a feeling she would be very willing to give you her insights!<BR>Again, I don't know if this is advisable, but I know if I were you I would call her. This has an advantage that it could clarify BS your W may be telling you!<BR>Best of luck!<BR>HH

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Jab,<P>I'm sure that what you did felt good, very good. But you are lucky he did not bring assult and battery charges against you.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

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BRB,<BR>You know that everyone that has posted is speaking from their own past experience, but that might not be the best course of action for you. You have conflicting advice as to what to do, but my opinion is that you should contact either Dr. Harley or his daughter, Jennifer Chalmers to do some counceling. Stick with the people who have helped countless couples to repair their marriages. <P>I could tell you what I did in my marriage, but I only have my experience to draw on...the Harley's have thousands. I had about 5 sessions with Jennifer and she helped me to figure out when to start Plan B, when to seek advice from a lawyer and helped me come to the conclusion that W was not interested in marriage and for my protection and the welfare of my kids..call it quits. She still said that I could leave the door open for reconciliation, which I have, but there comes a time that you will not be able to continue when your W is withdrawing too much from you Love Bank Account. <P>Plan B was a refreshing time because you didn't have to see or know about what your W is doing. I didn't have to listen to her saying how kind and sweet OM was and all that crap. I have semi Plan B'd for 6 1/2 months and still no change, but I can tell you that her love units are still at a high enough amount that if she did dump OM, I would seriously consider taking her back..and even taking the OC as my own. <P>Think seriously about calling the Harley's..they know what to do and will give you so much advice you will feel much better.<P>PS..don't waste your time with OM..it is too unpredictable and you could end up in jail. As others have said..it is your W that is the problem..OM was just an opportunist.<BR>Floored

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