My situation goes like this: EA since 2 years (although H doesn't believe this is an A -even though he spent half his time with her - she was a co-worker). PA From September 2000 to January 2001. Then he moved out of town for a job transfer. Didn't want the family to join him - kids should finish school year. Denied any A all along - although I suspected it. <P>Came over for a few days at Easter which was D-day and said that he had thought about it during the 2 1/2 months that he was alone and wanted OW to join him at his new job transfer - not the family - we have 2 young children. We have been married 12 years and during the first 10 years he was a loving caring husband and father. <P>Serious and gradual changes have occurred in his character over the last 2 years. I found out about MB right after he left after D-day - and I realize I got all the famous lines: I have no more passion for you, but I still care about you, I'm not a good father - the kids are better off without me. He brought up minor differences we had about 10 years ago to justify his A etc etc There were even times when he would get verbally abusive and even punched walls and tables - very different from the man I married. He cries a lot and says he can't look at himself in the mirror.<P>We haven't seen him since D-day but he is in constant contact with us thru emails and some phone calls. He talks to me like a casual acquaintance - and does provide for us financially. When he was admitting to me about the A I asked him if he wanted a D - and he said he didn't. He said that he wasn't looking to get married again and start another family - because he had the best family that a man could want…. He is 39 years old. The OW is married and has a teenage son. Supposedly her marriage wasn't going well for a while now. <P>The last words H said to me before leaving were that he knew he was making the biggest mistake of his life, but if he didn't have a real relationship with OW (they were sneaking around the office so far) he would never know what he could have had. He also said that he would probably end up calling me in a year or 2 and say he wanted to come back and then it would be my decision!!!<P>During the past two years I could see that he was becoming distant etc and I tried talking to him about it - but he made no effort whatsoever to work on the marriage. Every effort on my part seems to push him further away Doesn't believe in councelling etc. Said he had read somewhere that human beings weren't made to stay with one partner for life. He would give me a list of people we knew that had divorced and were doing fine etc etc. He basically built this wall around himself and I couldn't really reach him emotionally, physically. He even became indifferent to the kids.<P>His emails to us are polite, usually about some administrative matter that needs to be attended to - but every once in a while he'll tell me about problems at work or how he misses the kids so much and would I please tell them that he loves them and that he is not a monster. I have basically said to him that I still love him and don't want him to be unhappy. I try to be supportive through emails - so I guess I am trying to do a long distance Plan A - if that's possible. <P>My confusion comes from the fact that H has me convinced about his motives and feelings - and I don't see it as fog. He seems so sure of himself and has made no effort as far as our relationship goes - wants us to be best friends - will always be there for me etc etc. Says I haven't done anything wrong - he feels he's not cut out to be married and a father.<P>Advice - comments?? What would you do in my shoes? <BR>At the moment I feel so numb - I just want my life back!!!<P>Shakti<BR>

(((((Shakti))))). I know this is hard - but he's still spouting from the standard WH script - my husband is saying the same sort of things! The problem is that if you are feeling emotionally vulnerable, or 'down', then it's very easy to start to believe them. I know that's what happened to me last night and I lost hope for a while. They sound so certain don't they! The trick is to read between the lines, and think about what they are NOT saying.<P>It's good to post here and get some reassurance. I'm a bit 'down' right now too, so all I'll say is I'll hang in there if you will, OK?<P>hugs, Paint.

Shakti:<P><B> He seems so sure of himself and has made no effort as far as our relationship goes - wants us to be best friends - will always be there for me etc etc. Says I haven't done anything wrong - he feels he's not cut out to be married and a father. </B><P>My H is saying the same thing. almost word for word. All I am doing is saying supporting words...not easy.<P>My H has not left--yet, he keeps saying he is going to. Scares me. <P>What would I do in your shoes? Get help for me. Can you call the MB counseling center? Are you getting any other help? Are you doing things for you? You have to move forward. You cannot stay in a holding pattern forever. Sometimes when WH sees BS moving forward and growing it shakes them up....<P>Read [H]'s posts about this.<P>Cali<BR>

As Cali said,<P>Theres a bunch of posts out there by me on this very subject. How I tried to convince my wife, that I wasn't cut out for marriage, how I was to young, and I didn't want to hurt her. I tried not to hurt her as well during this time period. I ended up hurting her a lot. From things I did, and said. So might help you to read some of things I posted about. Theres a thread "Keep the faith" I started. But my story is scattered around in many diffrent posts.<P>Might start a new thread, and tear out atleast the majority of my posts and toss them in one thread, so its easier to find.. Here let me do that real quick..<P>"Diary of a Madman (WS) - Long" is the thread I just started.. Lot of my story there.<P><P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie

Paint, Cali and [H]<P>Thanks for your replies. I guess there isn't much else I can do at this stage but work on myself. I have in fact been doing that ever since my youngest son started school, and I became suspicious of H and OW in an EA - which he never believed in - just friends.<P>WH has a great gift of turning any given situation to justify his means. Anytime I looked, felt or did something good for me- I would get remarks like - "see, you are better off without me". I tried to keep the kids busy, since he was so indifferent to them and we just seemed to be in his way more than anything else. Again this was met by a similar reaction - "they don't really need a father - they are doing so great and seem so happy."<P>He would also be so nasty sometimes. I just feel I can't do anything right. Sometimes he would mention how he felt neglected by us - so on his birthday the kids and I prepared this nice surprise day for him (nothing overboard - just nice and warm - my 8 year old played him Happy birthday on the guitar - a big thing since he just started taking lessons, they made him a cake, cards etc etc - very personal). He seemed to really appreciate it. Then when they went to bed he made really nasty comments to me about how I just did all of this because I didn't want to lose him - and was getting jealous of attention he was getting from people at work etc. (No A at this stage according to him - just friends!!).<P>He's like a man trying to sabotage his own marriage. Every effort by me was turned into a negative situation by him, and when I held back to give him some space, it was seen as neglect. <P>He finally said that if he forced himself to stay - he would either end up hurting my physically (he lost control sometimes and punched walls etc ) or end up jumping out of the window (we live in a high rise). I have to admit that I was living in fear up until the time that he left. I also wonder how I would have handled it if he had stayed after Dday, and continued the A - I honestly don't know which is worse. <P>At the moment I just take it one day at a time - but I am more at peace with myself now, than the period that he was in the A - and living at home (prior to Dday). It was like he was only here physically and he was always to nervous, short tempered and basically miserable. Anything and everything we did bothered him. The kids couldn't figure out what had happened to their fun father.<P>Again - I don't know if this is Fog behavior - or is it a permanent change in him? What do you think?<P>Thanks<BR>Shakti <BR>

Shakti,<BR>It all sounds like fog behavior to me. Your H feels guilty about what he's doing, and that's why he can lash out with anger even when you do nice things like have a family birthday party for him. In fact, the nicer you are, the more he will lash out. He does this because as long as you are good to him, he can't justify what he's doing--even to himself. <P>From the comments he made about knowing that he was making the biggest mistake of his life, he really isn't so certain about what he was doing. And he made that comment about coming back to you in a year or two specifically to see how you would respond. How nice it would be for him to move ahead with his A if he knew you were holding the door open for him in case things don't work out with the OW!! I believe they call this "having your cake and eating it too."<P> I agree with what others are saying...continue to work on you. Make sure he knows (as I'm sure he does) that you wanted the marriage to continue, and that his leaving is NOT what you wanted. That way he always knows when everything falls apart with OW, it was all his decision and his doing.<P>I can relate to what you said about him trying to "sabotage" his own marriage. My own H did some of the exact same things. In a discussion where he was telling me "why we should separate", the issues he brought up were things from six years ago, before we were even married. If those issues weren't big enough to keep him from marrying me, how could they possibly be important now??? Another anecdote for you...my H complained that the house was always messy when he got home from work (we have a toddler). So I heard his complaint, and have been making a real effort to keep the house neater and cleaner than ever before. Last night when my H got home, he walked into a *sparkling* kitchen, glanced around and...get this...COMPLAINED BECAUSE THE BOTTLE OF DISHWASHING DETERGENT WAS STILL SITTING ON THE COUNTER. <P>So, know that you're not alone out there in what you are experiencing. I wish the best for you and hope your H wakes up to the mistake he's making!!<P>calla