To everyone<BR>My Daughter is a single OW. I feel that I have let her down as a mother. I'm here to learn and understand. There are so many things I wish I had told her, it's to late now, she won't read, or hear anything I have to say about this.<P>I'd like to know if there are any variables about OP that give us a "profile".<P>I'll start with profile of daughter:<P>1. age when started-23<P>2. How they met-on line, maybe chat room.<P>3. Did she know he was married before she met him--YES!!!!!!!!!(says alot about her) [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started---low point in her life, boyfriend just broke-up with her,(rebound) still needed one class to finish college.<P>5. Affair length--2yrs. if still going<P>6. Any contact with you--she says she has talked to wife, I believe this was on line and E-mail (?)<P>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.----Parents married over 30yrs.<P>8. education--she is now graduated for college, wasn't when this started.<P>9. Job----she was working retail, now has a great job and carreer. <P>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP.<P>Thanks<BR>Please don't flame, I'm just as horrified about this as anyone.

My H is an OM:<BR>1. age when started-40<BR>2. How they met-worked together<BR>3. They both were married...we had done things together as couples...in fact I worked with OW before he did...we even did<BR>stuff together with our kids [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]<BR>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started---H and I had been having financial problems for a while...he has not been happy with his success or lack thereof<BR>in life.<BR>5. Affair length--between 3-6 months...I'm not exactly sure when it started... H said<BR>he had been attracted to her for years.<BR>6. Any contact with you--H and OW's H have only threatened each other...<BR>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.----H parents have been married over 40 years...<BR>8. education--H is a college graduate working on his teaching credential and master's.<BR>9. Job----school teacher<BR>10. I think he's in major crisis and has been very unhappy for a long time; but has been unable to find his 'voice.'<P>The OW<BR>1. age when started-39<BR>2. How they met-worked together<BR>3. see above<BR>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started---OW had a young baby...could be post-partum depression...(she divorced H #3 shortly after birth of 1st child)<BR>5. Affair length--between 3-6 months...I'm not exactly sure when it started..<BR>6. Any contact with you--I have emailed her and called her...she is reported to be 'afraid' of me (says my H.)<BR>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.----parents divorced...mother in 3rd or 4th marriage<BR>8. education--She is a college graduate.<BR>9. Job----school teacher<BR>10. She's got definite problems with commitment...has been married 4 times...H says there are extenuating circumstances as to why she does what she does, but did not elaborate...<P><BR>Cali

Profile of H's OW:<P>1. age when started-22<P>2. How they met- at work<P>3. Did she know he was married before she met him-- Absolutely, she always taked so sweetly to me when she answered the phone at work.<BR> <BR>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started--- Supposedly she was "having problems" with some bad, mean, boyfriend who treated her badly. Yeah, the guy was so obsessed with her he completely vanished as soon as H came on the scene lol. I have doubts that the "boyfriend" even existed, but she needed some problems to tell to my H since he was "so cool and knew so much about life". Barf.<P>5. Affair length-- 6 months<P>6. Any contact with you-- Oh yeah. I called her a week into the A. I was suspicious, hit redial. She denied everything, even though I accused her of nothing lol. She couldn't dial the phone fast enough to call and tattle when he ended the A.<P>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.---- I think she came from some sort of Jerry Springer hillbilly family.<P>8. education-- GED. Wanted my H to pay for her college.<P>9. Job---- Office temp. Making copies, answering phones.<P>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP. - Our xOW wasn't in the market for a married man, she was just inthe market for a stable guy with a good job to hopefully pay for her to go to school and be a Daddy for her kid. Obviously the fact that he was married wasn't a big deterrent.

gottruth,<P> I would find it pretty abnormal for anyone on MB to flame you for something your daughter is doing. <P> What you are doing is something to be commended. You see what daughter is doing is wrong and you are trying to get/give the tools to her to open her eyes.<P> I only bring this up because I have noticed you saying this more than once. No One will flame you mom. Ok? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <P> jd

My DIL is WS:<BR>1. age when started - 33<BR>2. met? - former HS sweethearts; planned to marry; he jilted her; she contacted him after many years to say she forgave him<BR>3. did not know his M status (twice D) <BR>4. out of norm - clinically depressed, felt H was not making her happy, stressed about job, life in general<BR>5. affair length - 8 months (d-day at 4 months), probably not PA anymore but still in contact<BR>6. contact -N/A, DIL knows his most recent XW and XGFs<BR>7. background - abandoned by her dad, mom bipolar, grandfather committed suicide, sexually abused by stepgrandfather, hypoglycemic, clinically depressed, charming, intelligent, manipulative<BR>8. education - college grad, close to getting masters<BR>9. job - former high school teacher, now educational consultant<BR>10. other - from disfunctional family with serious emotional problems, always tries to please her demanding, critical mother, thinks it's her mission to help OM because he has had a rough life<P>The OM:<BR>1. age when started: 35<BR>2. met? - see above, jumped at chance to rekindle relationship<BR>3. He knew she was married.<BR>4. Nope, he was always a scumbag. (Sorry [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img])<BR>5. affair length - see above<BR>6. He crossed paths with my son (the BS)once. They had not met, but son had pictures. S said, "Oh, are you <name>?" OM said, "No, wrong guy," and walked away!!!<BR>What a man. <BR>7. background - bad childhood, twice divorced, MULTIPLE GFs<BR>8. education - HS<BR>9. job - 8 years Navy; now firefighter on AF base<BR>10. other - likes to "test drive" his women by moving in with them before he "commits"; maintains relationships with one XW, two off and on GFs, and my DIL!!<P>How sick do all these stories sound, guys? The FOG is soooo thick.<p>[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]

My H's OW #2? .... ewwww, she is a meanie and a fruitloop. Here goes ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>1. OW is 44 years old.<p>2. They met in a bar where H was playing.<p>3. oohhhhhh YEAH, she knew. Made it more intriguing.<p>4. I don't know this woman at all, so don't know. I'd say it's just her regular desperate pathetic groupie MO in the bar scene. <p>5. Hard to say ... one night stand in late '91. No contact for 7 years. Then kaBOOM, H starts to see her OC and he and her start up. Best guess total time, I'd say 2+ years total.<p>6. Yep, filed an anti-harassment order on her. She harrassed me on my answering machine during my illness. I saw her one time, in court that day.<p>7. Her mom was never married to her dad, and he took off when she was an infant.<p>8. I've heard she was the High School slut, and dropped out as a Freshman due to pregnancy.<p>9. Never worked, collects Welfare and has babies every 5 years to further her Welfare. Five children, five fathers.<p>10. OW had silicone implants that leaked during two of her pregnancies. OC was affected in Utero. OW has all sorts of things wrong with her that can't be diagnosed, she recently went to court against Dow Corning in pursuit of a suit [KaChing, KaChing], but lost. H was VERY dissapointed. Poor baby ... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Fairydust said:<BR>"7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.---- <B>I think she came from some sort of Jerry Springer hillbilly family.</B>"<P>LMAO A LOT!! Fairydust, that was so funny, thank you!<P>Jo

I just thought I'd check in to see how this is going.<P>Cali, I've read almost everything you have ever written. You are a wonderment to this board. <P>Fairydust, You've got a young stupid OW I see. Thanks for the information. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to see the X in front of OW!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Jdmak-Thanks, I just didn't want anyone to think this was FUN for me. Except for Estes, I don't see other parents on the boards. I had a session with J-Chambers awhile back and she said that parents do call and have counseling. I'm sure more lurk than one would think.<P>Estes, Is this still going on? Man isn't this hard!? Alot of pathology here in these stories.<P>Resilient, Wow! Your from Gig Harbor, right?Have you ever heard the band "Darrell an the Diptones"? They've played at some club on the water. I sang with them for their first four years. Anyway, thanks for the information. I love to read your posts, you're no fool!<P>Well, if I get enough information, I'll tally it out and see if it means anything. I think I should post this on the other boards too. Hope there is more!!!!!could someone bump this up tomorrow? thanks!

Ok, here's mine.<P>WS now H: 38 years. <P>Childhood problems. Abandoned by parents several times. Basically raised in an abusive home with alcoholic father. Both parents had As. <P>H viewed internet porno stuff for a few years. Had several 1 night stands for 1 year then met OW in Aug 00. <P>d/d 11/22/00<P>12/31/00 WS moved out (WS asked to come home at least every 2 weeks)<P>April 01, May 01, July 01, August 01 H tried to come home. <P>H went to jail in August 01 (2 nights - lived with OW 10 days - restraining order for H to stay away from family).<P>H came home, broke up with OW again. <P>Oct 01, H told OW she was selfish and rude. <P><BR>OW' profile: 45 year old Chinese woman, married no children. Works from the house. <BR>Claims to have a degree in Biology. Sells Asiaic tea and sew clothes on the internet. <P>Has 2 german shepherds (claims she will sic them on me if she sees me). <P>3 claimed pregnancies/miscarriages in 1 year. No proof, no baby every resulted. <P>BS e-mailed OW, OW responded and threated to call police and have BS thrown in jail for being a bad and abusive mother. BS has never met OW. <P>OW called and left over 35 messages on H's answering machine and 4 messages on our home answering machine. All those messages were addressed to the WS but OW spoke to the BS. <P>OW has made several threats over the months. Nothing ever came of those threats. Police have been notified. <P>OW claims to now be divorced. <P>I will add more later. <P>L.

orchid, I have read many of your posts. You certainly DO have the OW from HELL--a sociopath!!!!! Thanks for your input, I hope to compile this IF I get enough posts.<P>Thanks, and add if you would like.

hmmm...ok.<P>H's OW:<P>1. age when started- She was 40. Claimed she was 35. She's 43 now, still claiming on her personal ads that she's 35. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <P>2. How they met-in a bar, his friend's date brought my H a friend - wasn't that kind of her to make sure my H had female companionship?<P>3. Did she know he was married before she met him--YES. She wanted to rescue him from me.<P>4. Anything going on that was out of the norm when started--Don't know. She's a divorced mom of 2. Supposedly kids were sexually molested by a previous boyfriend, and she was physically abused by her X.<P>5. Affair length-- From start of their EA until last contact, 16-17 months.<BR> <BR>6. Any contact with you--She answered my H's cell phone once, and hung up when she heard my voice.<P>7. Background, parents married or divorced, any abuse, etc.-- no idea. Think her parents are divorced.<P>8. education--She's an RN. So she's got education, how much, I don't know. Don't really care, come to think of it. She's really become irrelevant in our marriage.<P>9. Job-- She's an OB nurse. H was running to her for advice about my pregnancy. BLEACH.<P>10. Add anything else you know that may shine light on OP. She calls herself a "Princesse". What more can I say? She had a face lift and a tummy tuck when my H moved out. A year later, after I filed divorce the second time, she went out and got the biggest boob job she could get. She expected and demanded to be treated "royally" but had a horrible nasty temper. She used to take my H's gifts and destroy them when she was mad at him. It hurt him terribly.<P>Wanna see her pic? She belongs to some stupid Roman Society thing. Yet another turn off to my H. He couldn't believe she got so caught up in this fantasy thing:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=297" TARGET=_blank>http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=297</A>

I would be interested to get some comments on this o p. She is not part of my culture so her modus vivendi is quite foreign to me.She is a southern comfort girl from the deepest of the deep south .she had a great deal of sexual energy and my h was very attracted to her physically she really signalled available and he responded . I would say that she combined the roles of Scarlett o Hara ,Ellie May Clampett and Monica Lewinski .I think she just loved the power that she had to turn on older men who were professionally successful and becoming bored with the domestic scene.<BR> She was bored with her marriage so she caused a diversion to entertain herself and boost her own ego whilst flattering him,you could say it was a mutual admiration society. It was supposed to be just a little bit on the side but became more serious than that. I think she thought she had it all under control.Her life has been a series of separate episodes where she has wilfully done every thing possible to shock her parents who I think are very religious and moral.<BR> She has consistently made a mess of her life while appearing to be very sweet and well meaning getting into situations which have been self destructive. As in the case of M Lewinski. I am afraid that there are groupies who appeal to male vanity they are totally unscrupulous and stop at nothing to get what they want, they are spoilt, selfish and have no self respect or consideration for others.

I would be interested to get some comments on this o p. She is not part of my culture so her modus vivendi is quite foreign to me.She is a southern comfort girl from the deepest of the deep south .she had a great deal of sexual energy and my h was very attracted to her physically she really signalled available and he responded . I would say that she combined the roles of Scarlett o Hara ,Ellie May Clampett and Monica Lewinski .I think she just loved the power that she had to turn on older men who were professionally successful and becoming bored with the domestic scene.<BR> She was bored with her marriage so she caused a diversion to entertain herself and boost her own ego whilst flattering him,you could say it was a mutual admiration society. It was supposed to be just a little bit on the side but became more serious than that. I think she thought she had it all under control.Her life has been a series of separate episodes where she has wilfully done every thing possible to shock her parents who I think are very religious and moral.<BR> She has consistently made a mess of her life while appearing to be very sweet and well meaning getting into situations which have been self destructive. As in the case of M Lewinski. I am afraid that there are groupies who appeal to male vanity they are totally unscrupulous and stop at nothing to get what they want, they are spoilt, selfish and have no self respect or consideration for others.<P>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: H2O ]<P>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: H2O ]<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: H2O ]

Thanks so much, I'm starting to gt some good information. I'll be back tonight and ansewer the laest entrys. Please keep this going.

Please don't beat yourself up. You are not responsible for your grown daughter's actions. What we all do is make a choice and we also pay for that choice good or bad, but no one forces us into a choice anymore than you can think for her or make her choose the "right" path. Here's my info, if it will help. I'm still recovering (BS and OW) and for the most part a lurker.<P>I was a well respected professional, had built up an excellent reputation for being not only reliable but extrememly good at my profession. I am college educated, made excellent grades, high test scores, went to church, involved with the community, lot's of friends. Parents were married 30+ before they passed away, fairly well off, strict but very loving, provided good morals, high standards, travel and encouraged multi-cultural experiences. High expectations.<P>I was 27 when I first met MM (didn't know he was married) attraction was immediate but I was too busy taking care of my sick parents, raising young children and trying to pull my marriage back together to pay attention to anyone else. I was 29 when I met him again, started an EA, fell in love, found out he was married, broke it off. He pursued and I foolishly gave in. Stopped working on my marriage, burried my parents, got a divorce. Then it became a PA and also the most painful experience of my life. Broke it off five times and am still recuperating. <P>I certainly wasn't looking for him or to fall in love with him. I wasn't looking to have an affair, but it was the choice I made. There are no good excuses and I'm still searching for a reason. I still love this man and there's a part of me that thinks I will always love him, but it wrecked my life.<P>I lost my self respect. I hurt a lot of people. We both hurt a lot a people and each other. I lost interest in a job that I loved. I lost my self confidence and now almost a year later I'm still trying to pick up the pieces. I've gone to counseling and read a ton of books trying to understand what happened and why. In my case I've been told, because I was in a low point in my life and vulnerable. I don't know that there are any real variables to profile an OP. We're all individuals and human behavior is predictable only to a point. <P>I'm sorry for being so long winded. I hope this helped.<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: TRose ]

Brambe Rose.
I remember your post about how beautiful she is. Helo!!!SHE IS NOT EVEN ATTRACTIVE. GEEEEESSSSS
Thanks so much. I'll let you know how this goes.<p>H20
I like your ansewer and I also believe that there people out there just as selfish and uncaring, they are called sociopaths. I know that It's alot of work but could you ansewer the questions I asked so that I can make a tally of this material.Thanks so much

Sorry for crashing this BUT ...<p>Wow TRose, what has happened to you, knowing how "together" you were before it happened, must be tearing you apart. I'm sorry for your pain, I felt it when I read your post.<p>For me this is a perfect example of how when a person finds themselves "needy", and with "zero Love bank balance", regardless of their strong convictions, they do things they would never normally do.<p>It sounds like you fought this hard, TRose. Can I ask a question? Would you say this A you had with MM was an addiction? Like being an alcoholic?<p>Prayers for your healing and self forgiveness, Hon.<p>Jo<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Sorry about the double post I couldnt edit it out . Like you I am trying to make sense of the situation that I am in and I am also looking for patterns of behaviour to give a shape and form to the whole experience.
The information that the people are giving here is invaluable as it comes straight from the heart and every one is searching for the elusive truth.I am currently working my way through the chronological stages of the situation and collecting posts to back up what I am trying to tell my h he is constantly sliding off the topic and making staements which make me feel like I am creating too much fuss about something that most people would take in their stride .
He makes statements such as I realise you are deeply affected by what has happened but most people would have got over it by now .Where are all these other people? He cant produce them .Whereas I can produce statements from posts which are similar to my perception.
He is denying me the right to my feelings.He is saying that there must be something wrong with me to have these reactions. This type of denial is called gaslighting and is the worst form of emotional abuse as it suggests that there is an unbalanced emotional reaction to the circumstances and brings my sanity into question .I know full well from reading the posts here that my reactions are quite normal .I hope that by collecting posts on contentious topics to change his attitude and to fully realise the destructive nature of his actions.
I hope that you can change your daughters attitude to what she is doing. Having a daughter myself I realise that she is in no mood to listen to any of your attempts to run her life you could be spouting einsteins theory but no -one wants to listen My children are both very self destructive in many ways and they dont want me to give advice on health ,wealth or happiness its bit like trying to communicate under water.
There is a general tendency in all of us to move towards pleasure and away from pain without realsing that one leads to the other and unfortunately we often have to watch people learn the hard way.Good luck anyway here are the details you asked for<p> AGE OF OW 24 at the time the A started (she is now 54)<p> MET she was a neighbour<p> SITUATION she acted like she was a friend of the family and until feb 2001 thats what I thought she was.<p> MARRIED she was married herself and was well aware of my h s marital status<p> AFFAIR LENGTH 1972-79 6 yrs and again from 1990-2001 10 yrs<p> CONTACT WITH WIFE She sent me a card when the A was found out apologising for the pain and other damage control crap she tried to trivialise the whole business saying it had only been a little something extra to begin with but that for her it had become more than that. My h had always maintained that his family came first and that once I found out it would have to finish as you can see they managed to keep the secret for avery long time. In the end my h made it so obvious what he was doing that I had to be blind and dumb not to figure it out. I think he wanted me to help him to to bring it to an end which is what happened.
For your information at this stage she was trying very hard to get him to herself, she was very emotionally attached to him . I think his income would have been handy as well. Any way the whole thing ended in tears both for me and for her
She never really knew him, all she had was a sad fantasy and that really can't be called a relationship .

BACKGROUND well brought up in small town southern state of America, influenced by the womens movement liberated attitude to sexuality.<p> PARENTS very conventional stayed married still alive and still married<p> EDUCATION college graduate, professional diploma<p> JOB education<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: H2O ]<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: H2O ]</p>

H20,
Thanks so much for all the information. Two times, one of which was 10 YEARS!!!!!! geeeese. this is all so disterbing.<p>Trose,
I'm so gald you entered this profile. I do believe you are in pain and that you are sincere. It gives me little hope though for my D. I have not formally gotten the information together yet but one thread that I do see is that "vulnerable" time in ones life. Thank you so much and come back.

Hello gottruth,<p>Yes, the disruption is still going on. Possibly no PA anymore, but they still communicate, and DIL is resistent to no contact with OM. They have known each other for years, since high school, and they almost married until he jilted her. Their history is longer than her's and S's.<p>Son is on the verge of moving to her state because she WILL NOT move back home, and this is the only way he knows to continue trying. Seems like he's the one making the changes. Oh, well.
These are his choices, and his eyes are wide open.<p>Grandson just had adenoid surgery in S's town and when I talked to her today, she sounded detached, depressed, but not unfriendly. (We always got along.)<p>I may see the three of them Saturday as they stay here when S drives them back to her state.<p>None of them is happy. So sad and discouraging. I am not encouraged by her continued depressed state. Definitely no emotional reserves for learning to love my son again. She can't even manage herself right now.<p>About your D. You don't know for sure what the status is with her OM right now? Will she not discuss it with you, or have you not asked? Are you getting along with her otherwise?<p>Estes