Hello All<p>Following is an email to WS. Maybe there's some LB's in here, but when do you you draw the line? When do you knock and see if there's anyone home between their ears in terms of reality? Your opinions would be gratefully received, because I'm struggling. Oh, and the email has been sent BTW.<p>Snerty<p>"Hello

I'm going to try and make this short, but please bear with me as our situation is complex and doesn't seem to be getting any better.

With me there are two separate issues and they are black and white. I will speak of them separately.

1. Your affair with ***** *****. As I have said to you in black and white, the affair is either on or over. Black and white...no grey area here. The facts are that you have been in a relationship with this person, and over the months I have been lied to. Black and white....no grey area here either. My trust has been given a severe kicking. I am still trying to re-establish that trust for you. It's not there at the moment, and at this point in time I honestly can't say whether it will ever be (think about how that feels). Consequently, I am suspicious...very suspicious. Given that I am still married to you, and despite all of the lies, I still love you, and still hold out hope for reconciliation with you. However, I am not at all disposed to be kicked in the head again, so I will be looking for either confirmation or denial that the relationship with him is over. I have stated to you that you will get absolute honesty from me. I demand the same from you (or from any partner I may be with in the future). And again...it's a bit of a Catch 22 situation.....any supposed expression of honesty from you at the moment is falling on deaf ears given the lies of the past. I can't do anything about that, and in fact I'm really struggling to come to terms with just how I could ever trust you again. I'm not going to rehash the reasons, why's and wherefors, but you bloody well know, that I have acknowledged my contribution to the failings in our relationship in that yeah...over the years I have failed to take account of your emotional and other needs and I have apologised to you for this. I want to build a life with you as my soul-mate (think about the meaning of that phrase too). I can't do that whilst I have any doubt about your integrity or intentions. Soul-mates don't have any doubt about each other...they are honest, and they say what they feel, as unpleasant as it may be at times. No guessing...no bull****! And over the last month and a bit, when there's been open communication between us, it has wound up being productive....see! Anyway, if you're still in a relationship with this man, at least have the guts to come clean with me. Don't waste any more of my life. It's not yours to waste.

2. Your move to an independent lifestyle. Nothing more to say about this except that I support you. Are you listening?? I bloody well support you!!! To this end, and in line with the honesty you have shown to yourself and to me in making this move, I will be perfectly honest with you. The next move is up to you. Sooner or later you will have to come to the decision to either return home (ref: the soul-mate stuff above), or make the separation permanent. Either way, I cannot and will not seek to influence you. You want independence and self-respect...then youdetermine your future!! In the meantime, I will be determining mine. that may, or may not involve you. I don't know at this stage. And you're going to be saying..."there he goes; pressuring me / influencing me". Horse**** !! It's just real life. Nothing more nor less. I am simply being honest. And with that honesty comes the statement that in determining my own future, the door may be closed to you. Again, at this stage I don't know, but I am at least informing you of my thinking. You know the depths of my heart with respect to us, and you can only guess at how much I have been hurt, but do not be mistaken about my integrity and my resolve to get some happiness into my life. I will not be walked on by you or anyone else again. And one final thing...don't ever insult my f***ing intelligence again by telling me that I "spend too much time thinking about things". I've been married to you for just over 14 years. I don't know about you, but that actually holds some meaning to me....oh, and funly enough, some affection too.

Well, that's all I have to say. Please let me know what's going on tomorrow.

****"

Well Snert, <p>You certainly spoke your mind. Are you concerned as to how she will react when the reads it or did you just need to let her know where you stood? <p>See depending on how you respond will tell you whether you made the right decision or not. It is full of LBs. But if that was the only way to get your point across and how she responds is secondary, then you should be able to live with that. <p>When a WS is in the fog and into it quite deeply, no matter what you say could be an LB. So we generally limit what we say but eventually we have to speak our minds and some of us do. <p>You will probably get other responses here but since you seem to be a straight talkin' kind of guy, I thought I'd give you my 2 cents.<p>Take Care,
L.

Snerty,<p>I know you had good intentions when composing this email .... but it's riddled with LBs. If you take a look at the MB principlas again you'll see that LBs include the following:<p>

• Disrespectful Judgements
• Selfish Demands
• Attempts at Educating Your WS

<p>Snert, I know you hurt, I have been there. But I don't think you're going to get the response you may be hoping for. You've handed her an ultimatum. It very well may back fire on you. I pray it doesn't.<p>May I ask, are you in Plan A or Plan B?<p>Best,
Jo<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Thanks Orchid & Resilient<p>Well, I knew it was riddled with LB's. No question. I guess I just couldn't get across to her that if she is the one making the decisions, well, good...make decisions, but don't make them for me. And, yes I know it's an ultimatum, but I will not be kicked in the teeth anymore by her. She knows I love her, she knows I cherish her, but (and there's always a "but", isn't there?) my life will go on with her or without her. I've acknowledged my failings re: her EN's and have honestly started to rectify all of that. I am trying to Plan A. Trying to let her be, and trying to leave her to her own devices. And trying to be as loving and supportive as I can. I do need to love and support myself at the same time though. Thanks again for your input(s).<p>Snertus Interruptus

Hi Snert,<p>Ok, you are aware of what you sent and it's potential impact. We are with you here buddy, but be prepared for sudden impact. The WS may unleash the winds of despair and blame you more. Hold your ground buddy. You are right, you deserve respect also. <p>From this point forward how are you going to act? Try not to react ok? Ws's are good at playing the BS as a pawn. Don't stoop to that level. Retain your dignity and repsect. <p>L.

I do understand and really empathize with how you feel, Snert. You don't deserve this treatment. I would say every one of us BS have gone without in terms of our ENs during Plan Aing our WS. The WS rarely, if ever, reciprocates ENs to the BS when in an A. <p>What I sense from your last post is you're ready for Plan B, that you are losing love for your W if she keeps up the affair and that you're LBing which is a tell tale sign you can no longer Plan A effectively. Does this sound right to you?<p>May I ask how long have you been in Plan A?<p>Jo

Resilient<p>I'm not at all sure if I am ready for Plan B yet. I also don't know if she's still in the A with the GM (I'm tired of OM...GM stand for "Ghastly Maggot"...hehe). What she doesn't seem good at is communicating where she stands. Fog. I haven't LB'd with her for weeks until this email. My love for her isn't lost. It is there very very strong, but I will not be walked on. I will not be the compliant wimp with no self-respect who spends his life as a doormat. I am still intending to Plan A for quite a while yet...I will still love her, and I will still give her space. I have only been Plan Aing for errrr....8 weeks or so, so i'll persevere for quite a bit yet. I've just let her know that despite my love for her, it's a 2 way street, and that relationships can only work where balance has either been achieved or is being worked towards. It's that latter that I am seeking to kick-start with her. <p>Snerty

Thanks for the clarification, Snert.<p>I think you were trying to tell your W what your boundaries are. And believe me when I say it's not easy to do that and not LB, there's a fine line there. <p>I have had my heart broken into a million pieces by my H's affairs. I can feel your pain and grief in your words and it takes me back to when I made so many mistakes when trying to keep from being a doormat but still Plan A without LBs. <p>I hope your wife see's how much you love her. And I pray she'll understand your email is a product of what her A has done to you and not use any of it to blame or as ammunition to fence sit.<p>Best to you, Snerty.<p>Love,
Jo

Hi Resilient<p>Funly enough, just got off the phone from W (long conversation). We are going to her parents tomorrow together for a social call, and then going shopping afterwards. I had originally invited her over for dinner tonight, but I suggested nicely to her that after my email, it may be better to spend the evening apart. There'll be time enough for us once she's established in her own mind that I am not gunning for her emotionally, and after I have re-established my trust for her. Our convo' was certainly emotionally charged, but there was no yelling or screaming...nor nastiness. She knows where I'm coming from in terms of my feelings for her, and from what she said to me, I may be "starting" to see the door closing in terms of my suspicions of her possibly continuing her A. I guess it's just a case of putting a few more pieces into the jigsaw at a time. Patience, perseverance, flexibility and observation of a few rules hopefully "should" make it possible to make a picture again. Trying to jam all the pieces together ain't going to work. *sigh*....ain't life just grand? *grimace*