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I am so confused....I keep trying to not look back and not let the emotions of feeling rejected weigh me down. I work at my emotional distress and get in a good place then WS does something. Just seeing him ride by, e-mailing me at night which means he might be at OW or whatever he does makes me suspect that he is having a gay ole time with OW. I have no clue whether he is having fun or not. I am ok if I am not confronted with the fact that he may be building a wonderful life with somenone else. I WANT TO JUST GIVE UP AND MORE ON. <p>I am struggling with whether I can give him a Christmas gift. I feel like I cannot show him my feelings cause it will be a LB. I want to discuss this Christmas turmoil I am feeling but I don't think he can process what is real yet. I think that is how we got where we are now cause I stuffed my feelings and he never really knew where I was coming from totally. This is my confusion......<p>WS just e-mailed me and asked me what I want for Christmas and what do the kids want. I have been sitting here for days trying to decide if I should get WS a present cause he is a real present giver. That is his way of showing love. I struggle with that cause all my life I was given "things" but loved ones never had time for me or spent time with me or tried to understand me. I hate the thought of getting him a gift that the OW will benefit from----cologne, clothes, etc. I am really having trouble with the holidays.<p>Also my son is coming home from Japan and I do not want to spoil or effect his Christmas negatively. I am not sure how to handle whether WS should be a part of our celebrations or whether my son should just see his Dad separately. WS has been so incapable of being a family member, why should he benefit with family gatherings at the holidays? Will this be having the best of both worlds? (family and OW). I do not even know how much he is involved with OW. <p>Any body that has worked through these holiday feelings would be great to hear from.<p>TW

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TW,<p>I haven't been through a holiday yet (well, except T-Giving, and WS and the whole family were here, but Christmas might be different).<p>I say, go ahead and get him a gift (if you want to). I wouldn't even give any thought or consideration to OW. The gift is for WS, and he'll do with it as he wishes. It just shows that you care. <p>I'm kind of struggling with the same questions. WS bought me a gift yesterday, and has made indications as to what she'd like also. I'm just going to get her her gift, give it to her cheerily (as much as I can), and carry on.<p>Maybe it'll shake a little historical sanity into them to receive something from us.<p>K

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Kevco---<p>"I say, go ahead and get him a gift (if you want to)". My big problem is that I don't want to get him a gift. I want to shut down and not have to deal with WS anymore. How do I get myself to want to? He always gave me many gifts in the past to appease his guilt but never did he listen to my feelings. Material things have little meaning to me...they are just things that make life more interesting but not more rewarding or meaningful.<p>TW

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tossedwave:
<strong>I hate the thought of getting him a gift that the OW will benefit from----cologne, clothes, etc. I am really having trouble with the holidays.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>TW,
Although I've not worked through this "holiday" thing myself, I did want to respond anyway, cause I wanted to say something about giving him a "personal" gift that OW can "benefit" from....<p>For my WH's birthday, I gave him a *wonderful* new cologne I heard about, and a colleague at work was wearing. I thought it just smelled delicious!! So I bought one for my WH!! I gave it to him personally, along with the disclaimer that I knew it was going to make "all the women follow him around the store...." HE responded back by saying, "Yeah, that's just what I need, MORE poeple "following me around..." - - I didn't "go there" cause I suspect OW is following him, checking up on him, etc. After all, SHE can't "trust him" can she? He's a CHEATER now!!!
Anyway, just a little "mini-vent" there -- sorry!<p> Oh, back to the cologne....well, I figure if he DIDN"T let her know where it came from, HE would still know! If she didn't like it, and I DO, it's a conflict for him everytime he wears it. If she did like it, everytime she complimented him on it, it would remind him of ME!!<p>If he DID tell her where it came from, and she liked it - it would STILL remind him of ME, and his feelings would "reel" everytime he wore it. If he told her it was a gift from me, and she didn't like it, and LB'ed, he would feel badly that I gave him such a wonderful gift and she wouldn't let him have it! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Either way, a personal gift just brings up such MIXED emotions, doesn't it?!?!?! I LOVE IT!!!!
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>lupo

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lupolady----Excellent!!!! I like that idea. I will not buy the usual cologne he likes but get him something I like and when he wears it, I can hope it reminds WS of me each and every time. That should put a damper on some of the fun and games. Even if it doesn't, giving him something I like makes me feel better about giving this year.<p>Hope you are surviving the emotional turmoil that the holidays and WS are stirring up in your life. What is the status with your M?<p>TW

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I survived last years holidays and a couple of things come to mind.<p>First of all, time to get some acceptance [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He is who he is. As long as you fight your reality, you are going to be resentful enough that you spoil your OWN holidays.<p>Next, learn to just enjoy the times you do have together - live in the moment and don't go anywhere else in your head. <p>Last Christmas, I told myself: Just for today, we are all together, we are all healthy, and God has a plan for us. God did, it just wasn't MY version of the plan. As soon as I let go of the instruction manual and let God sort it out HIS way, it worked much better. And my life was alot more happy and peaceful in the meantime...EVEN though my H was with another woman.<p>And last year - I bought my H a cigar humidor. I also framed pictures of our children for his office. There's lots of things you can do, if you think creatively [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

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Thanks BR---I had come to that conclusion this morning that I can't dish out my agenda. I need to just take this ride slow and enjoy what I can. Thanks......Another excellent idea about the kids pictures. <p>I figure that I cannot expect anything from him now and what I get is special. I do have to keep in mind that if we reconcile then we can work on us but WE CANNOT now. That is hard to process. I do not want WS to be comfortable cause I have always enabled him in the past so I fear giving him any good things from me. I do not want to "help" him stay screwed up. That causes confusion in me. <p>Tanks again,
TW

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tossedwave:
<strong>
Hope you are surviving the emotional turmoil that the holidays and WS are stirring up in your life. What is the status with your M?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Actually, the emotional turmoil and holidays are just settling in.....I don't know where "we'll be" for the holidays. I know I will go on, do the things I always do. HE knows what/where that is (friends on Xmas Eve/family on Xmas day) and he can either do a "new" Christmas with his "new life" or get his ACT TOGETHER and come home!!<p>Our status is:
H moved out 5-01 & in w/OW
Div. papers were in mailbox
Have not seen/heard from him since, except for one brief visit I made to him in Oct.
Letters/phone contacts before then were "cordial" tho always initiated by me, and none since then
Div. still pending
Need prayers<p>Lupo

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Lupo---so sorry to hear your update. It is so hard to know what to do. Give up or still hope. Waves of rejection sometimes hit me and I can't get out of the way. So then I find God's wave of grace and hop on and enjoy my life. I have so much to enjoy!!!!! I bet you do,too. I am safe and have such a rich life. My biggest question in life right now is why hang on? Why do we want things to work out with WS? I keep asking myself that. Maybe if things end, I will be better off. Will you? I am determined to find the answer to that.<p>I was watching "Once and Again" on TV Fri and the two love birds are now married and they are starting to have some of the marital problems that they had with their other spouses so....I guess all relationships are work so it would be easier to want to work on what ya got. At least you know what you are in for with current S. I keep going back to that thought alot. I wish I could just let go and live life....and then what happens, happens. My dang emotions get in the way all the time and get me feeling wacky. I guess I have lots to learn.<p>Hope your holidays have lots of fun in them...I will be praying for you. It is so wonderful to not feel alone in this and you are a part of helping so many keep going on this board including me.<p>TW

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lupo,<p>I like the cologne and was thinking that that is what I would give H for Christmas. I love the smell of freshly showered and cologned H. After d day I would make a point of sniffing him and saying "oh you smell sooo good" even got a kiss one time.<p>H birthday is week before Christmas and will be 41, bought a matchbox car the other day little red sports car, thought that I might send it to OW house as that is where he will be for B day and say sorry that I was a year late!!! So in an MLC!!!<p>Bramble---I like letting it go and letting God take over, I try so hard to do that, but have always had to fix things.<p>Dawn

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Well---I bought WS a Christmas present but it is an auto battery starter/ I could not bring myself to get the cologne, YET. Maybe I will get the plcae where I can do that soon but I seem to be having periods of anger. Everytime I am just going along just fine, I get a trigger. Tonight I came home and the auto body guy called here (cause WS will not tell anyone we are separated)and said his car is ready to pick up. Why doesn't he give them his number....I don't want to imagine in my mind where he is and what is going on in his life. It makes me angry and then I want to lash out at him......This really SUCKS!!!!!<p>I do not know how to handle my feelings of not knowing about his life.<p>TW

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Oh these emotions are so horrible. I too feel so good for a few days....and then get hit in the head by something he has done or said....and the pain starts all over. <p>I love the idea of the cologne...also was thinking of some masochistic(sp) sex toys. Do you think she would like that? Just kidding. I don't know where that comes from....I am ususally such a nice person [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

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Does anyone else have anymore ideas about gift giving in Affairland? This could be become quite interesting....I was thinking of lots of high-fat candy to clog the arteries and make THEM fat. <p>WS asked me what my S and DIL wants for Christmas but I never should have told him cause now I think I am in the middle of something. I don't think S is getting anything for his Dad this year and I wish I would have told WS to contact S himself instead of giving him my list.<p>Oh well---I know this too will pass and we will be stronger because of it.<p>By the way---whoever suggested reading Secrets of The Vine has my utmost admiration....IT is awsome cause it has clarified so much for me!!!! Thank you whoever it was on these threads who mentioned it.<p>TW

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I have read this thread with great interest as I have been through this exact thing. I was divorced 4 yrs ago after 29 yrs of marriage. EX left me for OW.
Why do you feel the need to get husband a gift this year for Christmas, especially if he is with OW? Gifts should be given out of love, not out of a feeling of obligation, or that it is expected of you, because he is a gift giver! I think you feel he will see you in a bad light and it will not look good for you if you don't give him some type of gift???? Maybe his not receiving a gift will bring a little dose of reality to the situation.
My ex and I separated right before the holidays, and I did invite my ex over for Christmas day, at my daughter's insistence. It was very difficult for me, possibly one of the worst holidays I have ever had, knowing that he was spending the day with us as a family man and then leaving to go be with OW! The acting I did around our children that day should have won me an Oscar!! He did bring me a gift, and my reaction surprized me totally--I thought I would be glad to receive a gift, any gift, from him, but my reaction was just the opposite. I was furious, because I thought to myself--how dare he bring me a gift and then go off with the OW--he doesn't have a clue how much pain his actions are causing me! I never said a word, except a simple thank you, but when everyone left, I cried myself asleep after I threw the gift in the garbage!
If I had to do it over again, I would have told him that I was uncomfortable exchanging gifts under the circumstances, and suggest he put the money towards the children. There was a lot of tension in the house that day, because evveryone knew about the OW, but of course we did our best to ignore it.
My kids also are all grown and to be totally honest with you, Christmas used to be a big deal for us, but ever since the separation and divorce, it has not been the same for any of us including my ex. My daughter was 13 at the time of the divorce, and after that Christmas above, I took her out of state each yr to her grandparents, because she didn't want to be around her dad. She would go over to his house a few days before we would leave to give him his gift.This year she is away at college, but is staying with her grandparents over the holidays-its been 5 yrs and she still has trouble with the holidays! My other children live overseas, and have their own families now, so that has soved a lot of the problem of "who do we spend the holidays with".
I didn't mean to get so carried away here. My point is , don't get him a gift out of obligation or expectation. Bottom line--in your heart of hearts, do you really want to get him a gift and if so, what is the reason behind it--is is love for him or hoping the gift will bring back his love for you??? Something to think about.

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I have done this since 1999. Then WS was living in an apartment, but he spent most evenings, weekends with us just used it for sleeping mainly with OW. Don&#8217;t remember what I got him, maybe nothing. He gave me a digital video camera (I do all the photo taking). Of course my gift may have been more from the kids than him.<p>Then late that day he left for several hrs when boys were engrossed in their gifts, to see OW & take her gifts, if he didn&#8217;t it make work too uncomfortable. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Should never have let him back in the house. <p>Last yr when we were overseas, I got a digital camera and half day spa. Again both were more from the boys. I got him a pair of Ray ban running sunglasses or some other type of high price sunglasses.<p>This yr the boys (really me) are going to make scrapbooks of their lives for their dad. That is if I have time after I finish with school next wk. My photos are in the thousands, & not organized but the plan I get them in by yrs, then the boys pick favorites, I make into scrapbooks, we make copies for dad for his house. There he has a reminder of all those &#8220;unhappy years&#8221; in his new home with OW.<p>Also as this is more than likely last yr for YS (9) to believe in Santa I have told STBX that he was welcomed here Christmas morning. Hey if he comes fine, if he doesn&#8217;t, he will know he could had been with his children & whose fault it was if he is not. : D<p>Now 4 yrs ago I gave him a copy of 1001 Romantic nights, I include this & the 1001 Great Sex Bk in his boxes of stuff. I figured he threw them away but if he didn&#8217;t he ends up thinking of me.<p>Another thing I don&#8217;t get I tried to give STBX some jewelry he has given me over the yrs back. I didn&#8217;t like some of it ever, & don&#8217;t plan on wearing it, he wouldn&#8217;t take it. He didn&#8217;t even look to see which pieces were there. I even included my engagement ring. He goes I don&#8217;t want it. I told him you are always saying I got everything, so I thought I give you what I don&#8217;t wear. He looked mad, & sad. I just don&#8217;t get it.<p>I have to admit I get my thrills thinking of new ways to nicely torment him in a Plan A type way. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>NOw you know what an evil woman I really am. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

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It seems not giving a gift would be a big LB but I get confused where being upfront and honest about OW and LBing meet. It seems that Plan A (as I read it) is negoiating with WS to stop contact with OW and learning to do this in a respectful, loving way. I do not see Plan A as a way to give, give, give to WS but it is confusing when you want to keep from letting WS control your feelings and the way you look at life.<p>If I have no contact with WS and I do not let triggers start my mind racing, I can live life real joyfully. Why do they have the ability to effect us so much. UGH!!!!!!!<p>Thanks for all the good input----it helps when sorting through the mountain of thoughts and feelings.
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bumped for more input


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