Hello all,

I was hoping for some suggestions on building self-esteem. I have battled depression my whole life. My self-esteem is so lacking there are times I am sucicidal.

Any books, techniques, I have done the counseling route and you name the anti-depressant I have taken it...still do. Just grasping at straws really any input would be appreciated.

thanks

ayslyne

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: ayslyne ]</small>

Hey A,

Have you tried changing your diet and exercising? It's possible to have vitamin and mineral deficiencies that can cause serious depression, and exercise helps raise endorphin levels in the brain and burns off stress. Plus, it makes you look healthy and feel wonderful.

I would talk to a GOOD chiropractor or alternative health professional if the medical establishment has failed you. Drugs, books and counseling all have their place, I'm sure but I have made much better progress this way, and so have my kids, two of which are on the autistic spectrum.

Most of all, don't forget to pray. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Best wishes to you!

Thanks for the suggestions. I do run 3-5 miles 5 times a week. I am very active. I take vitamins. And I am very spiritual. (Actually I administer the youth catechial studies at my church) I guess I would like a guide...something different than the past. I always seem to get some counselor who wants to blame my parents...which I think is crapola. I realize addressing past patterns is necessary but I am my own person I blame no one for who I am.

If you, or anyone, could suggest some common sense approaches, books to dealing with personal negativity I would like to hear about it. I am a girl who needs a plan.

Thanks again

ayslyne

Hello again!

I know what you mean about counselors (or any other people) who want to blame parents for everything. My motto has always been "It might be your parents' fault for the way you are, but it's YOUR fault if you stay that way." I came from a very dysfunctional home, but my dad passed away 22 years ago, and my mom has be gone for 6 years now. I moved out when I was 18, so I've had 20 years to deal with things. I still find myself in old behaviors, but I can correct that and move on.
That's why I like the MB approach. It basically tells it lik it is, and doesn't allow for wallowing in self pity.

I haven't found much encouragement for women in our position in any books, except the Bible. Trust me, I've been looking, too. JMHO, I'm not sure another book is what you need, but I think maybe you need to be in a women's support or empowerment group. I know for myself, I tend to withdraw from others when I need to reach out.

I know you said you are ministering to others, but are YOU being fed? Does you preist or pastor know of your struggle? Do you have a girlfriend you can *really* pray with about important, personal stuff? Someone who prays WITH you, not ABOUT you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I really think the Enemy uses depression to isolate and neutralize us from doing what needs to be done.

If you want a plan, pray first of all. Maybe make a list of what you DON'T want to do, then focus on what you DO want. Don't know where your M is on the recovery scale, but talk to H about things if he's still around, and get opinions from him.

I would see if you have food allergies or deficiencies, even if you do take vitamins. I even had to get metals testing from hair samples done on our whole family! It answered many questions. Like I said before, talk to a good chiropractor or alternative health professional and see what you find. You may have a physical issue that is causing your depression, which is why the drugs haven't worked for you.

Keep me posted.

Best wishes!

ayslyne,

I hope you are doing ok. I haven't seen you lately and your posts are so valuable, intelligent, and well thought out. You are one of the most interesting people I have ever met on here. I really miss them and hope you are doing well.

I too suffered from self esteem problems and mild to heavy depression for years. Counseling helped me get a realistic grasp on who I really was. I had a very warped view of myself and esteemed myself for certain things that I shouldn't have and didn't esteem myself for things I should have. In addition, my lack of self discipline contributed greatly to my negative feelings about myself, so that was a change I had to make. It was a change that made a huge difference, too.

Like you, I found many counselors virtually useless because they wanted to blame my childhood <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> or water down the standards to accommodate my faults. Changing the standards to accommodate faults is a dead end street to moral relativism that never works. Unless, of course, you can successfully kill off your conscience, which only led to deeper depression to me. I found much better success with a Christian counselor because he seemed to have a more rational world view and would shoot straight with me.

Another thing that absolutely changed my life was cleaning up my diet. I never believed it could make a difference until I tried it, but cutting out sugar and refined flour did for me what even counseling and Paxil couldn't do. I have been sugar and flour free for over 4 years and I now experience feelings of JOY and well being again, despite horrible tragedies during that time.

Cleaning up my diet achieved what years of counseling and Paxil could not acheive. And there is a biological reason for that. Sugar and refined flour is directly linked to depression and plays havoc on blood sugar. When you eat them, your blood sugar spikes and then crashes. When the crash comes, it makes one sleepy, groggy and moody. When you do this over and over again, the brain no longer consistently produces serotonin on its own and one becomes depressed.

Additionally, sugary foods prevent asorption of essential nutrients, rendering most vitamins worthless. Exercise can surely help, but it can't overcome a bad diet. Anyway, that has been my experience and I hope all is well with you.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

In counseling did they ever talk to you about the different sides that make up a person (inner child, critical doubter, adult). Kat over on recovery has written a number of posts on this subject.

Both my FWH and myself are in counseling with a therapist who is well versed in this subject. She teaches us to recognize which parts of us act and think certain ways, once we recognize it she teaches us how to deal with it.

I don't think it's an issue of blaming our parents..I think our childhood and our childhood experiences were part of the foundation of who we become as grownups. Good with the bad...our parents teach us to tie our shoes, brush our teeth, say please and thank you, etc...they also give us our first lessons on how to treat others, examples of relationships, etc.

How were you treated as a child? Were your parents, friends and family supportive of you? Did they encourage you, compliment you? Put you down? Hold you back?

How about today? How do your parents, coworkers, family, friends and most importantly your H treat you? How do you treat yourself? Are you kind to yourself or is your Critical Doubter mostly in charge?

Our IC encouraged us to write lists...good things about us and things we'd like to change. Also encouraged us to put plan in place to nurture and encourage our good traits and to put a plan in place to work on things we view as negative about ourself...then you need to chart your daily progress. These things on the good side could be..good friend, honest person, moral person, good body, nice smile, good sense of humor,etc. Negatives (things would like to change) could be things like...stop being so critical of myself, be less judgemental of others, whiten my teeth, highlight my hair, play with my children more, etc.

Remember..it's important to not hold yourself to higher standards then others...most of us are more willing to give others benefit of doubt but not ourselves!

Ayslyne-

I was VERY suprised to read this. You strike me as a woman that really KNOWS herself and based on things you've written, you have a very strong sense of what you feel and think. I guess that just proves that you really can't judge a book by it's cover.

I also suffered from depression, esteem issues, etc. I went the counseling route, turned to an A, anti d'S, running away from my issues, getting pregnant- basically nothing worked. It was all a diversion for me. I finally got to a place where I simply crashed. I hit rock botoom. I was SO empty inside that I didn't know what to do anymore. At that point, I simply realized that I am me. I can't be anything but that. Oncce I accepted this, I was able to start to love myself for my faults and my talents. I learned to let go of expectations that I held for myself and to set more realistic goals.

Basically - it's easy once you learn to let go. Forget everything you have ever thought about yourself and really look at who you are with a different set of eyes. Do you journal? How much time do you spend on you? How are you with listening to your instincts?

Asylyne: My wife has gone through many of the same things. She was hospitalized at age 16 for depression. she admitted to me, and the counselor recently, that all of this...from our marriage starting to have problems, to her adultery, could be centered on her self-esteem problems and not being happy because of them. look...she moves out in August and is still in school until May. She has limited resources to make it untiul graduation and what does she spend $3600 on? New boobs! So, I completely understand where you are coming from, including the "suicidal" thoughts.

I am not sure where to look though, besides your faith. My wife is just now trying to confront this, and trying to get back to her faith also. I will try to update you as we learn more about this.

Hang in there though. You are not just Asylyne. You have Christ in you. And that makes you infinitely important.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you are doing ok. I haven't seen you lately and your posts are so valuable, intelligent, and well thought out. You are one of the most interesting people I have ever met on here. I really miss them and hope you are doing well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Melody. I am so sorry you have been struggling lately. You have helped me so much through my struggles, and I wish there was something I could do. FWIW, please let me know if you ever need anything or just want to vent. I can definately relate... I have also been on just about every anti-depressant and to every counselor out there, and nothing seems to help. At times it feels the world is crashing in on me and I don't have the strength or motivation to pull through anymore. It's a horrible feeling and I hate that you of all people is dealing with something similiar. You are such an inspiration to so many people Ayslyne. My prayers are with you.

Hi ayslyne,

I suffered from depression for many years myself, hopping from one book/therapist to another who blamed anybody but me, until I came to this one therapist who told me:

1.You can do nothing about your past, but you can sure do something about your future, so concentrate on that.

2.Every time a bad thought goes through your head, you stop yourself - aloud - and aloud change the thought to positive.

This takes a lot of practice and at first you won't believe yourself at all, but keep doing it, after about 3 months you will be amazed at the difference. You will not only believe yourself but also FEEL what you believe.

I have not been depressed for longer than a day or two at a time since then (rather call it "bad days" because it is now no where near the feeling of depression now). It has now been 16 years!!! and by the grace of God, I never want to go there again!

Good luck and praying for you!!!
AD

Dear Ayslyne,

I have seen your picture, and I would comment on it, but I don't want to get crucified again. Oh, what the heck, you are a striking woman. Also, you have a real ability to connect with people.

I would suggest that you take real notice of the negative feelings, and refuse to give in to them. When you feel them coming on, in your mind, say no I am not going to give in. There is nothing wrong with me, and I am as good as anyone else.

Ayslyne,

Try the book "Feeling Good - the New Mood Therapy". It definitely helped me...

Hi ayslyne,

I really don't have any advice today. You can see by now from all the comments that there are many that think a lot of you. I have read your posts and thought "I wish I were that together."

I know from my own life that at one time or another everyone struggles. Just wanted to say you are in my prayers and I think the world of you. I hope someday you realize and give yourself credit for all the good you are doing here.

SS

quote:
2.Every time a bad thought goes through your head, you stop yourself - aloud - and aloud change the thought to positive.

This takes a lot of practice and at first you won't believe yourself at all, but keep doing it, after about 3 months you will be amazed at the difference. You will not only believe yourself but also FEEL what you believe.

This is excellent advice.. It works.. Start at this point. Make this point your number one goal. When we are depressed it is because we are thinking depressing thoughts. So, doesn't it make sense that if we want to be happy, then we need to think happy thoughts? Sometimes people are comfortable with their misery and feel lost without a "poor me" attitude...

The other thing I recommend is to start to find other people that you can help with THEIR problems.
When you are focused on other people , your problems will diminish.

Remember that all of us have problems of some sort.Learning how to look and find the good in our situations is the key into overcoming depression...

Just want to affirm some things MelodyLane said:

I've noticed the same things with the diet change that she reported. I've battled depression since age 15 - it was a major factor in the disintegration of my marriage. Recently, I've gone on a very low-carb diet, trying to lose weight. The first thing I noticed (besides the rapid weight loss, of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) was the improvement in my overall mood. What's even more striking is how quickly and powerfully my mood went downhill when I "slipped" and ate something with refined sugar or starch. Cause and effect, eh?

Caffine also has similar effects. The "boost" you get is because it alters your glucose levels.

Just a thought...

Sean

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Phyxius ]</small>

Ayslyne,

Please let us know how your are. We haven't heard from you in days.

KEEPMVN4WRD

That is exactly it. We ususally suffer from depression because we are negative thinkers. Changing ourselves to be possitive thinkers is indeed hard work but well worth while. I don't know whether I totally agree with the "comfortable with their misery and feel lost without a "poor me" attitude..." although I am sure in some cases it might be true, but, thinking negative mostly happens without us really noticing, through circumstances or, or, or.... !!! I still have to work at not gradually slipping back into it, catch myself every now and then, and then have to start changing thoughts to positive all over again.

PHYXIUS

Thanks for pointing out specific foods we should be watching out for. Oh! and I do so love the starches sniff... Will take care to take very little of those in future.

First of all I would like to thank each and everyone of you for your concern, kind words, and advice. I truly was overwhelmed by the responses. I am sorry that I have been away for a while, a very good friend of mine just suffered a miscarriage. She had to go through some procedures and I was with her throughout this painful ordeal. (Just on a side note...they had to do these procedures in Maternity which was torture because you can hear all the newborns)

I will re-read through what you have all posted. There is so much to digest. I do appreciate all of those who think well of me. Someone suggested that my lack of self-esteem and depression was suprising. I know to many people this is true. For me I guess I feel a profound sense of underachievement. I often dream of a paranoid, delapitated, hysterical version of myself who verbally abuses and threatens the sad, frightened version of myself. In reality I carry those two versions with me but outwardly I project a much different persona. It is not that I am dishonest about who I am...outwardly I am a devoted mother, daughter, sister, and wife. I am well educated, kind, and active. I hide the sadness and just live with the negativity. I feel very sure about many things in my life. I am sure about my moral views, my politcal views and my religious views...but I am just as sure about my self-loathing and personal disappointment.
I feel like I dont live up to the gifts God gave me.

I am not sharing this to achieve pity or praise only to relate who my mind works. You all have given me some very wonderful suggestions. My involvement in MB has been the first thing I have done on my own to help myself. I will try to keep in mind this positive choice I have made.

You are all amazing people and I am blessed to know all of you.

Any further suggestions or discussion are welcome. I will work on digging out of this lifetime whole that I have been in.

Thank you again so much.

ayslyne

Christ suggested we begin our prayers like this:
Our Father who art in heaven........

If he is your father, then you are his daughter. You have a birthright. Your birthright is to succeed and become perfected. It is a difficult task but not an impossible one.

I have had similar feelings to what you relate. I have no idea if we all do at one time or another. I just thought it was my personal cross. You have been given many great suggestions. I may try some of them myself. The diet suggestions have helped me but are not a cure all.

I cope mainly in three ways.

Sometimes I talk to my W about it, but.sometimes she needs strength from me, and I don't dare show that side of me.

Then I talk to God. He has never not been there. I know there is someone on the other end, I get help. I hope you also get help when you need it.

Last, I pretend. I pretend I am stronger than I am. I pretend that tomorrow will be better. ( usually it is.) I pretend I am positive when I don't feel positive.

I believe I have a grade school principal to thank for this last one. I was in a courus in my youth and he was the director. He taught us a song from the King and I called "Whistle a happy tune. "

Here are a few lines of it.

Whenever I feel afraid
I hold my head erect
And whistle a happy tune
So no one will suspect
I'm afraid

While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows
I'm afraid

The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people
I fearI fool myself as well

It works for me much of the time. The other two most of the rest. Sometimes nothing works, and I just go on anyway. Just like you are doing.

SS

(((ayslyne)))

I don't have any powerful words of wisdom, but I do want to let you know that I'm thinking of you. I have really appreciated your insight and advice on my situation. I'm so sorry to hear that you are suffering as you are.

Just remember that I'm one more person who has a great deal of respect and appreciation for you. You are a very valuable and worthwhile person!

Jen